Please be positive and upbeat in your interactions, and avoid making negative or pessimistic comments. Instead, focus on the potential opportunities.
- Manlobbi
Halls of Shrewd'm / US Policy❤
No. of Recommendations: 5
No. of Recommendations: 0
We've been tearing down great historical American's names and likenesses here and there.
Washington also owned slaves. He owned black people. Like we own cars. Yep, a true son of Europe.
So screw Washington and all that American history crap.
It's time to take back what's ours.
Start with Newsome who refuses to give black families their stolen family land back.
Washington Św-ashington.
Many mornings post donut I literally walk right next to where he crossed the Delaware. Big fracking me and my Boy Scout friends swam Lake Huron in December and we didn't own slaves either.
'Murica and "Washington" stuff is so 50's and so Beaver Cleaver.
I'm glad it's less and less and less important to more and more Americans.
Wake up people, get Woke.
No. of Recommendations: 5
Obviously, there is a somewhat sanitized mythos around the Founding Fathers. Worse when I was in school compared to 1poorkid's education about 35 years later. They were the product of the times they lived, and those times included slavery. I'm not going to say it was "OK" because I have the benefit of hindsight. It was horrific and inhuman. However, that doesn't negate the fact that they were visionaries who built the first secular democracy the world had ever seen. Far from perfect (e.g. women and black people couldn't vote), but a huge step forward.
Fast forward to WWII. The "greatest generation". I would never propose removing that title from them, even though they had Jim Crow in that era. And the internment of Japanese-Americans. Again, they were the product of their times. From the 21st century perspective, that still doesn't make it right. But it does add some context.
And when we look back, I think it is important to provide that context. Don't just show the painting of Washington standing regally in a boat on a river (which he never would have done...small boat like that would have tipped). Include the fact that they owned slaves. Include the fact that Jefferson fathered children with slaves. Include the fact of the Japanese internment in the 1940s, segregation (Tuskegee airmen, 442nd Regiment, etc). It's all part of a more complex history, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I totally agree we need to rid ourselves of the mythos, while not neglecting some of the amazing things that were done by those people.
No. of Recommendations: 10
So screw Washington and all that American history crap.
Here’s what’s true, Jedi-
When I posted this, I pretty much figured that you’d be quick to answer, I pretty much knew what you’d say.
I also knew that what you’d say would display evidence that you hadn’t read the article I linked, but instead would simply be a spasm of old, familiar reflexes that you exhibit whenever you are triggered.
No. of Recommendations: 0
Here’s what’s true, Jedi-
When I posted this, I pretty much figured that you’d be quick to answer, I pretty much knew what you’d say.
I also knew that what you’d say would display evidence that you hadn’t read the article I linked, but instead would simply be a spasm of old, familiar reflexes that you exhibit whenever you are triggered.
***
Ok....
my reply wasn't personal, it was about Washington and Woke Liberals banishing Founders from certain places.
1.)Glad you thought about me - I still live in Club 401K's non diverse brain rent free - good to know :)
2.)Glad you made it personal - when I didn't (do more. Because the punishment that's come alive - lol--is not gonna be fixed)
3.)I never once said I read the article. I didn't even hint I did.
Triggered? No, the shooters and victims your culture has caused in America and the dead in your Ukraine and Soviet wars - they are triggered.
I just held the skunk up by the tail: Referencing Founders when convenient - nope, that dog don't hunt.
Now, if Liberals want to say "the Woke are nuts to be tearing down their statues" - I hereby rescind my post.
Washington? LOL - it's great more and more Americans aren't aware of history. And more and more are NOT proud of it. This makes it easier for demagogues to incite them and divide them. (Has that happened in your country lately? LOL)
No. of Recommendations: 2
Here’s what’s true, Jedi-
Wilton is Jedi?
That explains a lot.
No. of Recommendations: 10
For those interested, I highly recommend a short book titled The Founding Fathers: A Very Short Introduction by R.B. Bernstein. Kindle version in $12.99 on Amazon. Bernstein wrote many books on the subject and was a scholar who studied the Revolutionary era of our country.
Here is a short blurb about the book:
The Founding Fathers is a concise, accessible overview of the brilliant, flawed, and quarrelsome group of lawyers, politicians, merchants, military men, and clergy known as "the Founding Fathers"--who got as close to the ideal of the Platonic "philosopher-kings" as American or world history has ever seen.
R. B. Bernstein reveals Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, and the other founders not as shining demigods but as imperfect human beings--people much like us--who nevertheless achieved political greatness.
I was a history & political science major in undergraduate school. I learned an awful lot in this amazing book.
No. of Recommendations: 0
Here’s what’s true, Jedi-
Wilton is Jedi?
That explains a lot.
***
1.)And on this thread, Jedi is on their minds more than Washington.
2.)The Woke took Founders out of style long time ago.
So now, they can censor themselves. "Washington" - lol
Be warned: Every personal attack. I charge you a billion bucks (your culture will accelerate it :)
I said nothing person to anyone. The usual ones did. Don't do it. Oh, your bill:
https://www.usdebtclock.org
No. of Recommendations: 2
For those interested, I highly recommend a short book titled The Founding Fathers: A Very Short Introduction by R.B. Bernstein. Kindle version in $12.99 on Amazon. Bernstein wrote many books on the subject and was a scholar who studied the Revolutionary era of our country.
Thanks for the pointer. I see the Kindle version for $4.99 on Amazon right now! (I have Amazon Prime, but it doesn't seem to be a Prime-only deal).
No. of Recommendations: 1
I see the Kindle version for $4.99 on Amazon right now!
Odd, I just looked and the Kindle version was $9.99. ??
No. of Recommendations: 0
No. of Recommendations: 2
No. of Recommendations: 6
Include the fact of the Japanese internment in the 1940s, segregation (Tuskegee airmen, 442nd Regiment, etc). It's all part of a more complex history, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I totally agree we need to rid ourselves of the mythos, while not neglecting some of the amazing things that were done by those people.
Include that we were still sterilizing Native American Women into the 1970s. Include the fact that California paid $5 for the ears of Native Americans and it's a recognized genocide by the United Nations. Include the Fort Pillow Massacre of black Federal Troops by Confederates, and the Tulsa Race Massacre. Give them the picture that there were actually 26 colonies and our thirteen revolted but the other thirteen were in the Caribbean and dependent on the British Military to keep their slaves in line. Let's no forget that part of the reason the Alamo was fought was because Mexico had outlawed slavery.
No. of Recommendations: 2
Agree. We shouldn't forget any of that. In fact, it's a tragedy that more people don't know about it to begin with. It should be taught in schools. Yes, people throughout our history have done exceptional things. They've also done horrible things. We need to acknowledge both if we are ever to get "better".
Admission: I didn't know about the Alamo. Never took much interest in a last stand against Santa Ana's army. I thought it was about territory.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Does "acknowledging both" mean tearing down statues?
How is it truly trying to be balanced *if* one one hand, whole signs and statues and names are erased on one end - and to balance it - kids get to read about the guys in history class when they'd rather be home playing with their I-pad anyways.
Education about history is decidedly more negative than positive.
If the Left feels that is ok - fine - entitled to opinion but THEN, take no offense when I say - screw Washington and his sissy Mary Delaware crossing and stop using him as any sort of standard now.
Now, if someone says ' put the damn signs, names, and statues back up - honor them, make sure Americans are proud of them and understand them, WHILE ALSO knowing that they did things like owning slaves - well, you'd have an ally in this writer.
I've never ever wanted to censor away things like slavery.
BUT the Woke Left *has* and *does* want to keep statues and signs torn down and out of mind.
No. of Recommendations: 4
Admission: I didn't know about the Alamo. Never took much interest in a last stand against Santa Ana's army. I thought it was about territory.
For Texans the Alamo was a glorious martyrdom.
One of my ancestors on my mother's side, Andrew Kent, was part of the Gonzales contingent that arrived at the Alamo as Santa Ana was beginning to surround the mission. He was, of course, killed there. I took my mother to the reunion of descendants of the Gonzales contingent several times.
I have a copy of the deed for 640 acres of land that was given to Kent's surviving family for his service at the Alamo.
As a kid this was a source of pride for me. Only later in life did I realize the history of the Texas revolution was more complicated than I had realized.
On the other hand, another of my mother's ancestors, James Nichols, was a anti-slavery and pro-union during the Civil War. He wrote a book, Now You Hear My Horn, about his life in frontier Texas.
So my Texas roots are a mixed bag.
No. of Recommendations: 3
The Founding Fathers: A Very Short Introduction by R.B. Bernstein. Kindle version in $12.99 on Amazon
Amazon has the Kindle version for $4.99 this am. And Abe Books has softcover copies of the dead tree version in VG condition for less than $7, including shipping
Thank you for the recommendation!
-- sutton
sending a free sample to my Kindle as I type
No. of Recommendations: 1
Amazon has the Kindle version for $4.99 this am. And Abe Books has softcover copies of the dead tree version in VG condition for less than $7, including shipping
It's also available for free as an epub or pdf at Anna's Archive, though not yet at Oceanofpdf. If you're into that sort of thing.
No. of Recommendations: 5
Does "acknowledging both" mean tearing down statues?
Depends which statues. The statues of a defeated (and now non-existent) nation are fair game. So Jefferson Davis should probably go. Statues are memorializing. Washington? First POTUS? He should probably stay. As long as we don't mythologize him.
The "woke" left aren't the ones wanting to edit history. The far-right want Jefferson removed from the textbooks (in TX?) because he was -apparently- too leftie. A few extreme left want Jefferson statues removed because of his link to slavery, which I don't agree with (and most on the left don't). But they don't want the history suppressed. Quite the contrary.
Though I do believe one or two Jefferson statues were removed from state facilities (NY?). Probably an overreaction, but I do get how African-American activists might find such offensive. At the federal level, given he was the architect of our government, it would probably be inappropriate to remove them (or bulldoze the Jefferson Memorial).
Most of our Founders were slave owners. Maybe all of them? Not sure. They were monied aristocrats and land owners, mostly. And their revolution wasn't entirely altruistic (i.e. self-interest since the King was mostly taxing them, Redcoats were housed on their lands, etc). They managed to rile-up the masses for their benefit.
No. of Recommendations: 3
As a kid this was a source of pride for me. Only later in life did I realize the history of the Texas revolution was more complicated than I had realized.
Same for me.
