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Georgia’s right-wing election board ordered hand-counting of all ballots cast on Election Day, a move that critics say could cause chaos.

Any corrupt action is OK if it helps Trump. And this will open up opportunities for corruption of the election results in Georgia.

The new rule, which passed by a 3-2 vote, runs counter to legal advice from the state's top election official.

But what does he know.

The measure is the latest in a stream of right-wing election policies passed by the State Election Board over the past few months. The board has come under increasing pressure from critics already concerned that it has been rewriting the rules of the game in a key swing state to favor former President Donald J. Trump. Last month, the board granted local officials new power over certifying the election, which opponents say could potentially disrupt the process if Mr. Trump loses in November.

Critics argue that requiring hand counting, in addition to a machine count, could introduce errors and confusion into the process and potentially disrupt the custody of ballots.

All in service to the corrupt criminal.

Is it any wonder that more and more REAL Republicans are coming out against Trump? They believe in free and fair elections and respect the Constitution, something Trump certainly does NOT.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/20/us/elections/ge...®i_id=96954166&segment_id=178395&user_id=e6affdf52fe9bfcd78f41474fda15788

John Fervier, the chair of the State Election Board, echoed the guidance of the attorney general’s office prior to voting on Friday, warning the members that “we’ll be going against the advice of our legal counsel by voting in the affirmative.” He also indicated that the board does not have the authority to make such a rule; such power rests solely with the legislature.

“This board is an administrative body, it’s not a legislative body,” Mr. Fervier said. “If the legislature had wanted this, they would have put it in statute.”

He also indicated that the board does not have the authority to make such a rule; such power rests solely with the legislature.

If true, then they can safely ignore that vote and proceed properly. If there's a question, they should probably get a judge to rule on it. Before November.

Critics argue that requiring hand counting, in addition to a machine count, could introduce errors and confusion into the process and potentially disrupt the custody of ballots.

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Proponents argue that requiring hand counting, in addition to a machine count, could identify discrepancies that must be addressed. And when the counts match year after year, the skepticism will subside and confidence slowly is restored.

Proponents argue that requiring hand counting, in addition to a machine count, could identify discrepancies that must be addressed. And when the counts match year after year, the skepticism will subside and confidence slowly is restored.


SNIP A hand count makes it much easier to doubt the results: This new rule will require workers to open secured boxes of ballots and start counting them on election night or early the next day, raising the potential to misplace or even lose some, warned Gowri Ramachandra, the director of elections and security at the Brennan Center. “There’s a real fear you have partisans try to sow chaos from these small things,” she said.

Election experts stress that endless audits don’t instill confidence in the democratic process; instead they allow bad actors to try to raise endless questions — much like Trump did last time in the state. He’s facing charges in Georgia of allegedly interfering in the 2020 election after three different recounts in the state confirmed he lost it. SNIP WaPo

So it's just the opposite Mike, per the experts.

“There’s a real fear you have partisans try to sow chaos from these small things,” she said.

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Simple enough, have an election worker and a poll watcher, each count a box, and keep at it until they agree on a number. And if some ballots are proven lost, that is not reason to disallow the election, but rather work on tighter procedures for next year and keep at it until there is confidence in the machine count.

I am fed up with election workers protecting data as if it were their own personal kingdom. Be eager to show your data, allow access without a court order for every little thing, cooperate in rebuilding lost confidence. Even if you, as an election worker, "know" things are fine, allow access anyway in the spirit of making others agree with you based on more than just your assurance.

Proponents argue that requiring hand counting, in addition to a machine count, could identify discrepancies that must be addressed. And when the counts match year after year, the skepticism will subside and confidence slowly is restored.

Utter nonsense.

First, Georgia already has triple checks and balances to verify that votes are correctly counted.

Second, the person Trump appointed to oversee vote counts stated that the 2020 election was completely fair.

Third, not 1 of the 60+ lawsuits filed found any voter fraud.

Fourth, in the 4 years since the last presidential election, not one example of voter count fraud has been shown to exist.

Fifth, the only people convicted of trying to vote twice in 2020 were Republicans.

Sixth, hand counting millions of ballots has been proven to be the most expensive, most time consuming, and least accurate way to count votes.

Seventh, Fox News paid three-quarters of a billion dollars to stop a lawsuit about them lying non-stop about non-existent voter fraud.

There is absolutely no reason to doubt the accuracy of our elections unless you want to believe a 34 count felon who tells tens of thousands of lies to promote fear and doubt among the cult members.

If you’re truly worried, why haven’t you visited your election board to learn about the various multiple checks and balances built into the system overseen by people from both parties.

The ONLY reason Georgia Republicans decided to “fix” a problem that doesn’t exist was to gum up the election. Even Republicans know they can’t win a free and fair national election. So they try to rig the system. Why so many Republicans have sold out their country to support a sick, evil, and incompetent criminal like Trump is a sad statement about our country.

First, Georgia already has triple checks and balances to verify that votes are correctly counted. - AW

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Apparently they lack a process to verify the accuracy of the machine count. And this idea should not be rejected because of cost, there is unlimited immigrant money so peel off a little of that in the name of election integrity, besides what higher calling is there than election integrity.

Even given the elections are pure, it is important in the conditions we now find ourselves, that the purity be demonstrated for this issue to mostly go away. Being so resistant to showing your work only raises the skepticism level.

Apparently they lack a process to verify the accuracy of the machine count. And this idea should not be rejected because of cost, there is unlimited immigrant money so peel off a little of that in the name of election integrity, besides what higher calling is there than election integrity.

Brad Raffensperger strongly disagrees with your conclusion.

Just because you’re unaware of voting machine security, doesn’t mean there isn’t any.

The Georgia election board Republicans know the machines are safe and accurate. They’re putting party before country in order to create havoc and doubt about elections because they know they will lose in a fair fight.

https://sos.ga.gov/news/setting-election-security-...

Simple enough, have an election worker and a poll watcher, each count a box, and keep at it until they agree on a number. And if some ballots are proven lost, that is not reason to disallow the election, but rather work on tighter procedures for next year and keep at it until there is confidence in the machine count.

There is no time, whether hand counting or electronic counting, where the votes are tallied by one person. I don’t know where you’re getting your information (hmmm. Let me guess) but the idea of a poll worker purposefully ignoring ballots or over counting is just so much arm waving by idiot politicians working to destroy the country.

Hand counting is typically performed by teams or boards. Jurisdictions may have several types of teams, in addition to the manual tally teams: a duplication team may remake damaged ballots; a chain of custody team may be in place to maintain custody of ballots before and after tabulation; an adjudication team may determine voter intent from write-in votes, overvotes, and voter selections that deviate from the directions on the ballot; a results team aggregates the tally sheets; and an audit team may be in place to check the results.
https://verifiedvoting.org/election-system/hand-co...

Hand counting results in more errors, not fewer, in independent research tests.

Researchers from University of California, Berkeley and Rice University, evaluating the accuracy and speed of “Stack and Count” versus “Read and Mark,” found that 46.7% of all teams provided incorrect counts for at least one race, regardless of the method used. The key difference between the two methods was the amount of time spent counting, with “Read and Mark” taking roughly half the time as “Sort and Stack” to complete. Researchers also found that, while teams worked faster throughout the count, the increase in efficiency did not improve accuracy: “[E]ven with the relatively simple task of manually counting ballots, error is ever-present…. While the efficiency data suggests that participants in the study did become quicker at counting over time due to increased familiarity with the procedure, there is no evidence this made a difference in error counts.”

there is unlimited immigrant money so peel off a little of that in the name of election integrity, besides what higher calling is there than election integrity.

If there was unlimited immigrant money we could peel off some and do what the bill that got killed was going to do. Unlimited border agents, unlimited Judges and staff so we could process all those asylees within 6 weeks. We could actually build places to house and feed them. Keep them separate. Then with all that unlimited money we could feed and house the poor, and give couples that 25k for downpayment.

But we all know that this is just facile reasoning to support screwing with a democratic election. Nice of you to be so cavalier about our elections. I think Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and George Washington would like to have a word with you.

Simple enough, have an election worker and a poll watcher, each count a box, and keep at it until they agree on a number. And if some ballots are proven lost, that is not reason to disallow the election, but rather work on tighter procedures for next year and keep at it until there is confidence in the machine count.

Facile reasoning. And from watching the states, they already automatically do something similar to this if the election is very close - so the election people are on top of it. Quit F@--ing with our elections.

We can only hope the final election result does not come down to the Georgia result. If it does, we could go several days without knowing the election outcome. I wonder what might happen during those "several days"?

Quit F@--ing with our elections.

They have to cheat to win.

Just because you’re unaware of voting machine security, doesn’t mean there isn’t any. - AW

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Now now, play nice. I never claimed there wasn't "any". The report you linked was mostly about resistance to voter machine hacking. That is an entirely different topic than the institutional resistance of election officials everywhere, not just Georgia, to organize and retain voter records and to make those records readily available to a skeptical public.

Quit F@--ing with our elections. - Lambo

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Deal - if the possessors of voting and process records are compelled to retain that data in an organized manner and make it readily available when requested.

The resistance and secrecy also stir things up in their own way.

There is no time,

And yet, we've handed counted ballots by the tens of thousands for years, accurately.

Lulzies.
One side wants extra counting, Voter ID, penalties for illegal voting and assurances that people who aren't eligible to vote don't vote.

The other side resists voter ID, penalties for illegal voting and WANTS illegal aliens to vote.

Who's messing with democracy again? As always, before liberals lie to other people, they lie to themselves first.

Deal - if the possessors of voting and process records are compelled to retain that data in an organized manner and make it readily available when requested.

The resistance and secrecy also stir things up in their own way.

There's no secrecy as both parties have people observing there during the entire process in most states and y'all raise questions anyway. Y'all just pretend there's something wrong by innuendo, misleading statements, misrepresentations, half truths, falsifications and outright lies. Why should we have to deal with that because you like a narcissist who lets you be as bigoted as you want to be? But now he's jumped the shark and running scared. Trump threw evangelicals under the bus, threw Jan 6ers under the bus, and he'll throw *you* under the bus to stay out of prison.

Your own independent check has said the election was fine in - was it AZ? You filed some 65 frivolous cases. Y'all need to step up and be good citizens.

And I don't agree with letting you have any data to walk off with. You can process it while being watched and recorded in a steel underground vault - don't trust y'all. :)

And yet, we've handed counted ballots by the tens of thousands for years, accurately.

And we’ve used electronic devices of various sorts for counting millions of ballots for years accurately as well.

What’s your point?

They have to cheat to win.

But they don't have to cheat to win. Republicans would win if they ran competent candidates who espoused ideas and positions that are broadly popular in their constituency.

Their problem is that while they often claim to be a majority, they are not - at least not on a national basis. (Neither are Democrats, just to be clear.) There are certainly cities and counties and states where Republicans are indeed a majority of the electorate. And they generally win in those places.

When you are not a majority, you have to be willing to make compromises to get some of your ideas implemented. The root problem is that too many Republicans are not willing to make ANY compromises to get some of their ideas implemented.

The reason Democrats win on a national basis (President, House, Senate) more often than Republicans is because their candidates are competent, they espouse ideas that are broadly popular, and they are willing to compromise on some of their ideas to get others implemented.

--Peter

What’s your point?

The point is simple: the left doesn't want ballot security. In any form, in any way. Especially not in swing states.

Your own independent check has said the election was fine in - was it AZ? You filed some 65 frivolous cases. - Lambo

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Many of those cases were dismissed for lack of standing and the claimed evidence was not subjected to judicial review. The standing question is a good one. Do not depend on third parties from out of state to file lawsuits. Audits would be conducted at the precinct level and any lawsuits would be brought by locals.



And I don't agree with letting you have any data to walk off with - Lambo

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Nobody is suggesting walking off with any original data, scheduled inspections in a secure facility should be adequate.

Many of those cases were dismissed for lack of standing and the claimed evidence was not subjected to judicial review

That's more of a commentary on your attorneys, you know, the same ones who filed the other ones that were tossed out with judicial review. If you thought they had real merit, you would have found a qualified local and refiled. Your evidence was bunk.

Nobody is suggesting walking off with any original data, scheduled inspections in a secure facility should be adequate.

Sure, we'll schedule them after the election - say Jan 8th? But that's a state thing, not Fed.

Some big time point conflation going on here by your opponent.

Tossing a suit for Lack Of Standing says nothing about the merits of the facts presented. It’s a form of a technicality that says, you don’t have any say here because this don’t concern you.

Tossing a suit for Lack Of Standing says nothing about the merits of the facts presented. It’s a form of a technicality that says, you don’t have any say here because this don’t concern you.

But it's an easy problem to fix. Find someone else who does have standing and re-file the case. Shouldn't take more than a day or two at most if the case is legitimate. That these problems weren't fixed says a lot to me about the merits of the case. That they happened at all tells me a lot about the quality of attorneys hired.

--Peter

Some big time point conflation going on here by your opponent.

Tossing a suit for Lack Of Standing says nothing about the merits of the facts presented. It’s a form of a technicality that says, you don’t have any say here because this don’t concern you.

No, you misunderstood my comment. The attorneys were so bad, that they screwed up standing in all those cases. And they thought the evidence evidence was good enough in those cases they lost where there was judicial review, which is a comment on the evidence not reviewed for lack of standing. You should be able to understand that.

And it's not concern, it means you can't show you were harmed, and there are notable exceptions.

Dope1: Tossing a suit for Lack Of Standing says nothing about the merits of the facts presented. It’s a form of a technicality that says, you don’t have any say here because this don’t [sic] concern you.

Trump and his allies had dozens of cases appear live before judges in hearings, including 30 that were heard on the merits and 29 of those cases failed. The one successful case did not present evidence of voter fraud.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elect...

And yet, we've handed counted ballots by the tens of thousands for years, accurately.

Which is just the same as tens of millions?

They need to check that guy's basement for black mold or something.

I remember the recounts of four years ago. The MAGA-ites were made to look like fools. The hand counts did not materially change the outcome**, and took weeks to accomplish.

I'm all for making our voting more secure. Thus far, we have no evidence it isn't. Seems like we're trying to solve a problem that isn't a problem.

Though I would be concerned about machines that are online. Those could be hacked by the Russians (or whomever). So keep them offline, probably always good to run a trial by feeding the machines a few thousand test ballots to be sure the count is accurate before actual voting begins. Those seem reasonable precautions.

The convict lost in 2020. Both popular and electoral. Hopefully he'll lose again in about 6 weeks.




**In AZ, the hand-count resulted in Biden winning by a larger margin than originally reported. However, I believe the original count was the "official" count. I think it likely the hand count was less reliable because...humans. Even with the best intentions, we make mistakes. I always count my change before leaving the register.

I remember the recounts of four years ago. The MAGA-ites were made to look like fools. The hand counts did not materially change the outcome**, and took weeks to accomplish. - 1pg

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I think it is reasonable to not automatically delay the official results for any of these routine QA audits. Any detailed and worthwhile post election records review would stretch for weeks or months after the election and it cannot be allowed to delay the official results. Suppose it is stipulated that any of the generalized post election record reviews will only be used to fine tune procedures for the next election and cannot be used to challenge this years results. We would still get to a better place, just slightly slower.

The primary sentiment is the election records are not the private property of the custodians of that data and the records should enthusiastically be made available for post election review and analysis. Sunlight will diminish the integrity concerns of most of the skeptics.

<<scheduled inspections in a secure facility should be adequate.>>

This is done already. There are counts to ensure that the number of ballots cast corresponds with the number of voters who signed at the polling place or on their mail-in or drop-off ballots. In instances in which the outcomes are close, recounts are automatic in most states. The notion that elections are rife with fraud and/or inaccuracies is simply part of the big lie.

Many judges ruled on the nature of the “evidence” the Trump lawyers submitted. The cases were not all tossed on “technicalities.” The “evidence” was universally derided, and the attorneys were often cautioned that the suits were so egregiously frivolous that they could jeopardize their licenses.

It is frankly depressing to see otherwise sensible people stretching so hard to avoid dealing with facts that contradict their beliefs.

It is frankly depressing to see otherwise sensible people stretching so hard to avoid dealing with facts that contradict their beliefs. MisterFungi

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I am by no means an election denier. Trump lost fair and square. I advocate for two things, voter id and access to voting records. I figure if the records are readily available to locals who want to check or verify something, then any questionable items or missing data will quickly be wrung out of the system. Right now, it takes a cadre of lawyers and lengthy court battles for access to each little thing.

Fulfilling requests for information or records access should become easy, quick, and routine. After a few cycles of looking hard but finding no significant issues or discrepancies then skepticism will subside on its own.

Suppose it is stipulated that any of the generalized post election record reviews will only be used to fine tune procedures for the next election and cannot be used to challenge this years results.

The history shows it won't fine tune anything, and the states may not want to pay for it. If you're willing to pay for everything - for the building/rooms used for it, the salaries of the people watching you, not to mention go to jail if you pull anything, etc. Why should I have to pay for the Republican party's election stunts? These procedures are constantly refined by states because we've had problems before. The same people who spend energy suppressing votes, creating distrust of the elections for political purposes are going to lie about any audit too.

The primary sentiment is the election records are not the private property of the custodians of that data and the records

Election records are state property not private property, and it's the state that reviews it. Nobody's fooled, the purpose of your proposed review is partisan hackery and if it doesn't let you grandstand on imaginary election flaws you'll reconsider the use of the money and drop it fast.

Hey Dope,

Are you one of those people who still write out a check by hand and mail t into the power company rather than use electronic checks or automatic withdrawals?

Do you ride a horse into work because you don't trust those newfangled cars?

It is seriously stupid the things your cult require you to think and believe.

Right now, it takes a cadre of lawyers and lengthy court battles for access to each little thing.

Fulfilling requests for information or records access should become easy, quick, and routine.

Given the vast number of election deniers we have seen, can you imagine if every one of them decided to amble down to the county courthouse and demand to see the election returns? All of them? And have to have a human monitor from both parties to make sure they didn’t deface ballots, steal entries, or otherwise change the election tallies that has already occurred?

We make people go through the courts for a reason, the same as searching your house. In that case it’s “reasonable suspicion”, not just some guy wants to go rooting around through your underwear drawer. Without that, it’s chaos.

The parties have the financial resources to deal with this, witness the flood of lawyers that descended on Florida in 2000, or the firehose of false court cases that resulted in 2020, the vast majority of which were denied or overturned. Frankly, I don’t see a problem worth overturning 250 years of experience because a few cranks want to complain about an election they so clearly lost.

voter id and access to voting records. I figure if the records are readily available to locals who want to check or verify something, then any questionable items or missing data will quickly be wrung out of the system. Right now, it takes a cadre of lawyers and lengthy court battles for access to each little thing.

Fulfilling requests for information or records access should become easy, quick, and routine. After a few cycles of looking hard but finding no significant issues or discrepancies then skepticism will subside on its own.

The easiest way for faith to be restored in the voting system is for Republicans to not tell outrageous lies about it and accept defeat when it happens. As long as Republicans tell outrageous lies about elections and won't accept defeat, confidence won't be restored - maybe never restored to Q even if y'all do.

Access to voter registration and voter ID "should become easy, quick, and routine." Once that is established and y'all stop telling outrageous lies about elections and accepting defeat, there will be little need for an extra partisan hand count. We can talk about it then, but it's up to each state. BTW, you have no standing in 49 states and DC, so talk to your state.

The easiest way for faith to be restored in the voting system is for Republicans to not tell outrageous lies about it and accept defeat when it happens. As long as Republicans tell outrageous lies about elections and won't accept defeat, confidence won't be restored - maybe never restored to Q even if y'all do.


I'm afraid that is not going to happen. Trump has poisoned the once Grand Old Party. For the Trumpian party it is 'heads I win, tails you lose'. There is just no room for them accepting reality.

Trump lost the popular vote twice, though, of course, he has lied his ass off about that. And he might win this time based on the electoral college. If he wins the popular vote this time...something is seriously wrong with way too many of our fellow 'citizens'.

I remember the recounts of four years ago. The MAGA-ites were made to look like fools.

Visualize a Trump Rally. It's theater of the absurd.

Looking foolish is the whole point.

Reduce the election system, the 3 branches of government, to the point that it's all considered a joke that should yield to corporate overlords like Elon Musk.

<<I am by no means an election denier. Trump lost fair and square.>>

Good to know. Thank you.

I stand by my main point, which is that there are already in place many safeguards to catch and prevent miscounts or deliberate fraud. Voting records are confidential information and ought not be available to any Tom, Dick, or Harry who wants access to them. Outside observers already can be present to monitor the processes.

As has been amply documented, the MAGAs did not act in good faith in 2020 when they challenged state election outcomes. They lied, conspired to overturn a valid election through illegal means, used threats and violence against state and local election officials, and plotted and fomented the last-ditch Jan. 6 insurrection. They are already taking action to subvert the electoral process this year. I'm suspicious of anyone who attempts to excuse or normalize such deplorable, anti-American behavior.

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