Post New

I doubt it will happen. The "Banking Cartel", ahem, isn't gonna go for that.

But beyond that the funny part is while it would help some people, really, someone who had to run up debt or chose to run up debt - are they really gonna pay it off with 10% juice running?

Bad luck. Health issues. Job loss. Yep, can happen to anyone and such means have to be utilized.

BUT, lack of personal finance knowledge or responsibility. A culture that glorifies status symbols and latest fashions. Record profits for anyone from smartphones to autos to restaurants.

Sheeple, culture is a big part of this one also.

You didn't want to even entertain it.

Enjoy........

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The entire "supply side economic miracle" has been floated on an ever rising ocean of debt. Forcing interest rates down, by decree, enables more debt, to keep the charade going longer.

Steve

Credit card interest rates are usurious. Our mortgage was around 3% while CCs were charging 18% or more. That's just silly.

There was no miracle about supply-side economics. The "miracle" -IMO- has been fueled by federal debt, not personal debt. Reagan tripled the national debt during his 8 years. As a nation, we were living high-on-the-hog on a VISA card. Individually, people were (and are) in deep doo-doo because they can (and do) go bankrupt. They can't print money like govt can. Usury is illegal, and we really should put a stop to that. The only difference between the banks and loan sharks is that the banks don't send people to break your legs. Maybe limit it to some multiple of the Fed rate.

The OP isn't wrong about financial management. They don't teach that in school, even in my day. I had to learn it on my own. Simple stuff like figuring out how much you have coming in vs going out, and how to make the latter less than the former. Reconciling a bank statement. I'd say balancing your checkbook, but checkbooks are an anachronism at this point (1poorkid doesn't even have one...she does everything through Zelle or similar means). If I hadn't found Prodigy -and their finance boards-, who knows where I would be now. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodigy_(online_service)) We mostly used real names in those days, and I owe a lot to the wisdom of folks like Chief Nixon and John Hakemian and Bill Chennault (and many more). (I think I can use the names since we were all featured in a Kiplinger's article while I was in college. Alas, most of them are deceased now.) They were responsible for my money management education, and for me opening mutual fund accounts while I was still a starving student. My first MF was Monetta, in part because they had a low minimum balance (I think $100?), which I could handle. I even opened an IRA (Vanguard).

1poorkid benefited from that, also, because she learned from me. Some of her friends ask her to ask me questions, because they didn't get any of that in school, either.**


**As an aside, all the nonsense about sex education in school has had negative consequences. 1poorkid became the answer girl in her school because she got the information from me. No matter how uncomfortable the question, if she was old enough to ask it, she was old enough to hear the answer. I augmented the "abstinence-only" with actual information. Yes, she had a knack for asking uncomfortable questions, but she deserved the answers. Other parents should be glad for that, because their kids were getting correct information from her, rather than made-up stuff from kids whose parents didn't tell them anything.

Steve,

You need to read up on the Modigliani-Miller theorem,i.e. "capital structure irrelevance" theorem.

This is a basic part of finance theory.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with using debt as opposed to equity to finance a corporation's, or a nation's, capital structure.

The U.S. is extremely wealthy and if we wanted to, the national debt could be reduced or at least kept constant in inflation-adjusted dollars.

We can start by not giving various kinds of subsidies to illegal immigrants.

Are you with me?

The entire "supply side economic miracle" has been floated on an ever rising ocean of debt. Forcing interest rates down, by decree, enables more debt, to keep the charade going longer.

Steve
***

funny how some demographics are more victim of the rates ---while others are NOT. I guess they all read about supply side partisan talk ;)]

Anyhow, Where is Bernie? Where is Warren? Where's the bill in support of this --daring Trump to sign it?

Crickets.

There was no miracle about supply-side economics. The "miracle" -IMO- has been fueled by federal debt, not personal debt.

It was both. I have posted the graphs from time to time, over the years: drawdown of personal savings and accumulation of both government and personal debt.

How do people manage to pay for the huge SUVs that are so popular now? They finance for 7 or 8 years, instead of the traditional 3. Trump the Most Perfect proposed 50 year mortgages, instead of 30, for the same reason, so people can make the payments on the bigger, more profitable, houses that companies like Pulte want to build. To TPTB, the solution to everything, is getting the Proles farther in debt.

Steve

Anyhow, Where is Bernie? Where is Warren? Where's the bill in support of this --daring Trump to sign it?

The GOP controls the Senate, meaning the GOP controls all the committees. Bernie, or Warren, can submit bills until they are blue in the face, None of them will ever get out of a GOP controlled committee, to get the a floor vote in the GOP controlled Senate.

I had to expend some effort, to not laff out loud, when a coworker was complaining about things that were supposedly being done by Pelosi. At that time, Pelosi was nothing but the minority leader, in a GOP controlled House. She did not have authority to pass anything.

Steve

Where is Warren? Are White Liberals only meant to PRETEND to care about consumers and "the people" while knowing they won't really do anything?

Now we know how black americans get treated for 2 generations - "we shall overcome" will be sung by a 401K'er before election -- and then the prison and mayhem and shooting and bad schools continue till next election.


C'mon Democrats, make the President sign into a law a 10% cap. He's asking for it.

I know - -it was never a real goal :) and the banks thank your education system for graduating people who can put a condom on a vegetable - but not decide not to buy dumb shit on credit.

If you want to be a Rich Republican - Be a White Liberal. They even get segregation rights.

(Ignored Yapper) quoted by Steve203: Anyhow, Where is Bernie? Where is Warren? Where's the bill in support of this --daring Trump to sign it?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, along with Representative Anna Paulina Luna, introduced legislation in the House of Representatives to cap credit card interest rates at 10%. The bill, H.R. 1944, was introduced in March 2025 and is known as the "10 Percent Credit Card Interest Rate Cap Act".

Companion legislation (S. 381) was introduced in the Senate by Senators Bernie Sanders and Josh Hawley.

The legislation died in the House Committee on Financial Services.

Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders had previously introduced the Loan Shark Prevention Act in 2019.

Trumpedo is resurrecting the legislation because this is an election year.

And the Epstein files.

So where are Dems forcing to pass it, versus just proposing it knowing it won't get done in the past?

Crickets.

It's about appearances.

Liberals won't hurt their Big Bank Buddies.

It's about appearances.

Liberals won't hurt their Big Bank Buddies.

I disagree. Dems have no power, so in that respect, it was "appearances". It also forced the Reps to oppose it publicly, which can later be used against them.

When Dems were in charge, they created the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau. (Pushed by Liz, who also penned the bill you're dismissing out of hand.) This administration has been making noises about killing the CFPB, too. Don't know if they'll follow through, but it's clear your ire should be directed more at the Reps than the Dems/liberals. If Dems take back Congress this year, the CFPB will be safe. If not, I don't think it will survive the last two years of this administration.

It's about appearances.

Liberals won't hurt their Big Bank Buddies.

There's also a substantive issue. Credit cards are unsecured consumer debt issued without any prior underwriting or approval up to the limit of the card. Profitable, but risky. If you limit credit card interest to 10%, a lot of people won't be able to get credit cards. Especially poor people. And since not having a credit card can be pretty rough in the modern economy, this is a tough lift.

lbaby1: If you limit credit card interest to 10%, a lot of people won't be able to get credit cards. Especially poor people.

An analyst from JPM addressed this today. With a 10% cap, “there would likely be a significant reduction in credit offered... so this would be a de facto monetary tightening. What would be the analogous number of rate hikes? ... I am not sure, but feels like it would be similar to multiple rate hikes.”

Credit cards are unsecured consumer debt issued without any prior underwriting or approval up to the limit of the card. Profitable, but risky.

Not entirely. There is an approval. That's what the credit reporting agencies are all about, and the banks consult them before approval (or denial) of a credit card.

A more fair system might be to peg maximum rates on a combination of the Fed rate and your credit score. But that may give the reporting agencies more power than we want. They already have a lot of power.

There is an approval.

Yes - as I said, up to the limit of the card.

Once the card is issued, there is (typically) no prior approval required for any given purchase, up to the limit of the card. They will not conduct any further underwriting review or re-evaluation when you decide to actually exercise the card and have them make the loan. They will not, at that time, review what you're purchasing or whether your financial situation has changed. They don't know if you're buying a material good that might hold its value and be recoverable in the event you default, or if you're buying something that disappears instantly (like a massage or entry to Disneyworld or something).

Each time you use the card, the bank is making a pretty risky loan (relative to other loans, natch).

They will not conduct any further underwriting review or re-evaluation when you decide to actually exercise the card and have them make the loan.

Sure. They use your credit history to determine that. Which, of course, affects the limit they offer you. In some extreme cases, it isn't really a credit card...as I recall, you put your own money up, and it's almost a debit card (usually to help you establish a good credit history).

I do get your point. It is, as you said, an unsecured loan based on your history. It is apriori approved (again, based on your history), and if you're bad, they can have a vendor keep the card (if I can believe what I've seen in some TV programming).

It seems to me the risk is more when someone gets your card number. They've vetted YOU. But some miscreant gets your card number and starts charging up a storm. The banks cover you, so you're not on the hook, which is a loss for them.

And since not having a credit card can be pretty rough in the modern economy

After my bankruptcy in 2010, I went about a decade without a credit card. It wasn’t that hard. I did have a debit card, which substituted for a credit card in most situations.

To be honest, I didn’t really miss it.

I do have a credit card now, with a fairly low limit and arguably usurious interest rate of 29% and a $5.00 monthly fee. Needless to say, I don’t use it - with extremely rare exception.

So I disagree with the premise that it’s all that hard to live without a credit card.

—Peter

Limiting credit card interest rates to 10%, assuming there's any legal way of doing that in the first place, will simply result in people with low credit scores being unable to obtain credit at all.

Price controls = shortages.

As a matter of fact, since the typical credit card interest rate for even people with good credit is usually no less than 18%, no one will be able to have a credit card.

It's a silly idea.

Under Clinton and Obama - there were indeed instances they had Presidency, Senate, Congress.

Big Banks...are still here with 29%.


Now Trump is tweeting 10%.

And I don't see Warren and Bernie publicly unveiling the bill and saying "Come sign it sir, it's what you said you wanted"


It's about appearances.

Corporate America - is Liberal.

They just use dumb Republicans is all.

Yes CPFB was Lizzy and part of its mandate was to protect constituencies from bad culture,s poor upbringings, and who were trapped in a Liberal induced family structure, who just absolutely loved paying the higher rates and rate fees and interest on vanity bullshit purchases. But it was also used as a revenge and attack tool.

Nevertheless, 10% is Trump's public proposal.

Lizzy isn't calling his bluff and saying "here's the bill sir....sign it, I give you full credit"

That would actually *do* something.

Limiting credit card interest rates to 10%, assuming there's any legal way of doing that in the first place, will simply result in people with low credit scores being unable to obtain credit at all.
****

Somewhat, yes.

But, banks and Liberals will devise other ways.

Certain constituencies ----are easy.

If you want to reach them, don't go to strip malls with math tutors and insurance agents - you'll find 740+ credit scores there.

Find payday loan places, $200 hair cut places, $1000 rims for car stores.....and the consumer groups there will fall all over themselves to pay higher rates. higher fees, or whatever Woke Banks repackage it as.

There's a reason why some groups in America go from zero to being envied for their wealth and educations.

And some.... have their total net worth invested in their haircut and handbag.

It won't change.

Ok, it's changing - - a bit. But nowhere near how it should be.

(Some dude on TMF with firsthand knowledge touted CACC way back in the day. He knew - culture will lead to financial rape of certain constituencies. Fella ended up ok......)

So I disagree with the premise that it’s all that hard to live without a credit card.

How do you pay for online purchases? Or make payments in stores if you don't use a credit card?

I'm just curious. I haven't paid for much stuff with cash or a check in more than a decade. I'd say 95% of my regular purchases are with a credit card.

I haven't paid for much stuff with cash or a check in more than a decade. I'd say 95% of my regular purchases are with a credit card.

Chickens and eggs!

With chickens and eggs you don't need cash, check or credit card. MAGA!

We can start by not giving various kinds of subsidies to illegal immigrants.

I have to ask, can you do this twice? I ask because we already don’t do this, so the only way to save a bunch is to not do it even more, when we already don’t do it.

In general, unauthorized (illegal) immigrants are ineligible for federal public benefits or subsidies in the United States, with a few specific, limited exceptions primarily related to emergency health and safety. Federal law, specifically the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA), broadly bars access to most means-tested federal programs.

Right. They are "ineligible."

"Ineligible" means they should not get them, not that they don't get them.

You know that obviously.

How do you pay for online purchases?

With the debit card I mentioned. They use the MasterCard or Visa network, and function just like a credit card.

—Peter

I wish we could stop referring to "illegal" immigrants as it feeds a malignant narrative. These folks are undocumented, and only guilty of civil infraction, not a crime. They are not criminals. If they are criminals, then so am I for all my speeding and parking violations.

Flight doc,

How about "squatters who are not in the country legally."

Because, guess what--they ARE NOT "immigrants"!

They are just people without permission to be here that snuck in, or stayed passed the end of their lawful time here as a visitor.

NOT IMMIGRANTS. They are NOT IMMIGRANTS.

They are more correctly called "invaders."

Flight doc,

Do you have a driver's license?

Do you object to sharing the road with people who never got a driver's license in the first place, or had one that is now revoked or suspended?

Why???

They're just "undocumented drivers"!

Stop with the "undocumented" nonsense. That's a pure euphemism. It's not like they have a legal status and just misplaced their proof of same and therefore need replacement documents. THAT would be "undocumented."

No, they are IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.

They are in violation of immigration law.

They do not belong here.

Doesn't necessarily mean they are criminals, although undoubtedly many of them are--tax evaders and so forth.

Say doc, is it OK with you if you happen to forgetfully leave your front door unlocked when you are shopping at Costco, if I or anyone else just mosey on in and set up camp in your master bedroom?

And then claim I have the RIGHT and ENTITLEMENT to stay there?

Why not? Because I don't have the deed to the property as the owner, and I don't have a lease agreement from you as a lawful tenant?

WHY I'M JUST UNDOCUMENTED. By your "logic" if I can trick my way into your house, I GET TO STAY THERE AS LONG AS I WANT.

HOW MANY "undocumented immigrants" are you currently housing, flight doc.

Goddamn leftist hypocrites.

Corporate America - is Liberal.

They just use dumb Republicans is all.

First time I've heard that assertion. Can you expand? My former company was in the S&P, and our CEO was extremely conservative. I don't know for a fact how he voted, but I would wager it was Rep all the way. After 9/11 he really went extreme, and had us saying the Pledge before every communications meeting (which we had every quarter), including the "under god" bit, which was deemed unconstitutional at the time. Great CEO, honestly, but way too conservative for my taste. I stopped going to the comm meetings, and would get the highlights from coworkers who went.

Some CEOs seem to be liberal, but the vast majority of them don't seem to be based on their public behavior. Money first, people second (or fifth or sixth...).

How do you pay for online purchases? Or make payments in stores if you don't use a credit card?

I'm just curious. I haven't paid for much stuff with cash or a check in more than a decade. I'd say 95% of my regular purchases are with a credit card.

Before there was an "online", I didn't have a credit card. Well, 1poormom put me on hers so that I would have one for emergencies. As I recall, it doubled as a calling card (remember those?). I would have some cash in my pocket. But if what I wanted exceeded that level, I would go to the S&L (remember those?!), withdraw what I needed, and go buy what I wanted. It was a really good way to not buy things, also, as I couldn't really impulse buy.

It was inconvenient, but relatively easy.

For online, there are a few options. Paypal is the most obvious. Many sites will take debits or e-checks. CCs are easiest, and most ubiquitous, but they aren't the only way.

Before there was an "online", I didn't have a credit card. Well, 1poormom put me on hers so that I would have one for emergencies. As I recall, it doubled as a calling card (remember those?). I would have some cash in my pocket. But if what I wanted exceeded that level, I would go to the S&L (remember those?!), withdraw what I needed, and go buy what I wanted. It was a really good way to not buy things, also, as I couldn't really impulse buy.

Oh, me too. I'm an old enough phart to have lived through those days.

But these days? I almost never pay cash, almost never write a check. I make virtually every purchase through a credit card, and would never use a debit card for an online purchase. As a method of payment, it has no equal for ease and convenience - both IRL and doubly so online.

"Ineligible" means they should not get them, not that they don't get them.

That also goes for US Citizens, doesn't it?

Post New

US Policy FAQ

---

Contact Shrewd'm
Contact the developer of these message boards.