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What would Biden do (for me) if elected?
I will even concede that he is the best President, better than Washington and Lincoln, has done greatly tremendous things in his first term, whatever. But the election is about the future.
"I am not Trump" is not enough except for Dem party loyalists. Maybe Trump will fire all civil servants and ban porn. Maybe he won't. His words have moved sharply to the center, plus his actions have no correlation with his words anyway. He is slippery.

What exactly are Biden's promises to the voters in exchange for their votes?

What would Biden do (for me) if elected?

How many times does it need to be said? This isn't about what Biden will do for you. It's about what Trump will do to you and the country as a whole.

"I am not Trump" is not enough

If you care about the country, it has to be. If all you care about is you and not your neighbor, well, God help your neighbor. Because you certainly won't.

--Peter

I will even concede that he is the best President, better than Washington and Lincoln, has done greatly tremendous things in his first term, whatever. But the election is about the future.

What exactly are Biden's promises to the voters in exchange for their votes?

While I am one who has called for Joe to turn over the keys to the family car for a while now, I would say the easy answer to your question is “to continue”, you know, to be “the best President, better than Washington and Lincoln, to do tremendous things, whatever”…

But apparently that is not enough for a country which now eagerly laps up lies by the bowlful, has little sense of proportion, no understanding of facts, no memory of the dysfunction of 4 years ago, and seemingly less interest in exploring anything which might intrude onto their well propagandized reality.

And yeah, that’s why it’s depressing.

It's about what Trump will do to you and the country as a whole.

That is the crux. Trump did not do a lot of bad things in his first term except mishandle Covid. Which was a very big thing, granted, but he also made the stock market go up and reduce my taxes. I am not convinced that he is the antichrist. And I know for a fact, that Biden did not reduce my taxes, especially by not reinstating the SALT deduction. Which hurts his blue State constitutions the most. But he does not care about me. So now I know that Democrats don't care about me, and maybe Trump does and maybe he doesn't. But he cannot be worse than Biden. He is already promising another tax cut. Biden is promising nothing. All democrats want is more money out of my pocket, and I don't see why I should give it to them when already 2/3 of the federal budget is about welfare in one form or another. Where does it end???
I do not want to give one Red sent to able adults. The old and the young and the disabled, I understand. And even then, the old are manipulating the system by not spending enough of their own money that they have inherited or accumulated. It is unfair for the young and the middle-aged working people to support somebody old, who is not their family when they have millions of dollars, but can manipulate their income due to not having an income, but accumulated wealth.
IBI, student loan foregiveness, all handouts to able adults who do not deserve it. If you do not want to be burdened by student loans, do not take them. We all want nice things, but we have to earn them, and the same with you losers.

IBI - UBI* universal basic income

The old and the young and the disabled, I understand. And even then, the old are manipulating the system by not spending enough of their own money that they have inherited or accumulated.

Wow.

It's hard to know if you are just posting hypothetical arguments or if you truly do not understand that the vast percentage of wealth accumulation is in the hands of Trump's biggest financial supporters to protect their accumulated wealth?

Those bigly deep $$$ pockets are now selling you the story that old people are to blame? You're buying that story from heirs to fortunes like Musk and Trump? We are truly screwed. Old middle class and lower income people are the new Jews.

"The top one percent
The United States follows closely behind China as the country with the most billionaires in the world. Elon Musk alone held around 219 billion U.S. dollars in 2022. Over the past 50 years, the CEO-to-worker compensation ratio has exploded, causing the gap between rich and poor to grow, with some economists theorizing that this gap is the largest it has been since right before the Great Depression."



"U.S. wealth distribution Q3 2023
In the third quarter of 2023, 66.9 percent of the total wealth in the United States was owned by the top 10 percent of earners. In comparison, the lowest 50 percent of earners only owned 2.5 percent of the total wealth."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/203961/wealth-...

Trump did not do a lot of bad things in his first term except

attempt to overthrow democracy.

Sometimes one bad thing is bad enough. Especially when he’s setting things up to succeed at overthrowing democracy this time around

—Peter

It's hard to know if you are just posting hypothetical arguments or if you truly do not understand that the vast percentage of wealth accumulation is in the hands of Trump's biggest financial supporters to protect their accumulated wealth?

The thread is about Biden's promises to voters. If you're saying that UBI or other forms of wealth redistribution is what he is promising then fine. I will make up my mind whom to vote for based on what he is actually promising me.

The thread is about Biden's promises to voters.

OK. Let's frame my response in that way.

Biden promises not to overthrow Democracy. His opponent sure looks like he is trying to do that and install himself as a dictator for life.

Sometimes one issue is so vital, so central, that all of the other potential issues fade away into insignificance.

You sure seem to be unwilling to even acknowledge that as an answer to your question, instead trying to reframe the discussion away from that one, central, vital issue.

--Peter

His opponent sure looks like he is trying to do that and install himself as a dictator for life.

No he doesn't.

No he doesn't.

In the spirit of open discussion, go ahead. Make your case. Why isn't Trump trying to overthrow Democracy and install himself as dictator for life?

Why isn't Trump trying to overthrow Democracy and install himself as dictator for life?

Because he isn't.
You people seriously need a break; the paranoia you're all exhibiting due to living in a steel-like left wing bubble is going to mess you up eventually.

In the spirit of open discussion, go ahead. Make your case. Why isn't Trump trying to overthrow Democracy and install himself as dictator for life? - pete

=====================

Hesitant to use the word "infinite" but lets say there are billions of things Trump is not trying, eg marathon running.

How do we know he is not trying? Because he has never been observed doing so. Simple really.

Because he isn't.

That's it? That's all you can say? You're not going to even attempt to defend your position?

--Peter

How do we know he is not trying? Because he has never been observed doing so.

But we HAVE observed him doing so. He's currently under trial for it. The case in DC is all about his attempts to overturn the 2020 election. You don't actually get to a trial without significant evidence that the acts alleged were actually committed. Doesn't mean he's legally guilty yet, but we all get to decide if he's morally guilty. And there are just too many actions in evidence to claim with a straight face that he's never tried to overthrow democracy.

So your argument falls completely flat. We have seen him attempting to overthrow Democracy.

--Peter

Biden promises not to overthrow Democracy. His opponent sure looks like he is trying to do that and install himself as a dictator for life.

Trump definitely politicized institutions and issues that should have remained apolitical. He acted like a company owner - if you don't agree with him then you're gone, right or wrong doesn't matter. Truth doesn't matter. We saw this with Covid the most vividly, but also with setting the path of a hurricane with a sharpie. Comey was fired, Jackson-Johnson was rewarded.

That is very far from trying to change the constitution to be a dictator for life. I don't think he is that ambitious or unrealistic. Plus there is no path for him to do that. Way too many democratic (as in democracy) hurdles. I am sure the Congress and the Supreme Court will rebel against him, if only to maintain their own constitutional powers.

knighttof3: And I know for a fact, that Biden did not reduce my taxes, especially by not reinstating the SALT deduction. Which hurts his blue State constitutions the most. But he does not care about me. So now I know that Democrats don't care about me, and maybe Trump does and maybe he doesn't.

What now?

Donald Trump implemented the SALT cap to offset his 2017 tax cuts, called the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. If you have a problem with a $10,000 SALT cap, then your problem is with Trump, not Biden. And there's zero chance of Trump eliminating or raising that cap.


knighttof3: All democrats want is more money out of my pocket, and I don't see why I should give it to them when already 2/3 of the federal budget is about welfare in one form or another. Where does it end???
I do not want to give one Red sent [sic] to able adults. The old and the young and the disabled, I understand.

Well, lessee.

The spending of federal taxes to finance various public services breaks down like this:

Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), and Affordable Care Act (ACA) marketplace health insurance subsidies together accounted for 26 percent of the budget in 2023, or $1.6 trillion. Roughly half of this amount, or $848 billion, went to Medicare, which in March 2023 provided health coverage to around 65.7 million people who are age 65 or older or have disabilities. The rest of this amount funded the federal costs of Medicaid and CHIP ($633 billion) and ACA subsidy and marketplace costs ($91 billion).

So, of the $1.6 trillion spent by the federal government on four health insurance programs, all but about 6 percent went to the elderly, children, and the disabled.

And 22 percent of the federal budget, or $1.4 trillion, was spent on Social Security, which provided monthly retirement benefits in March 2023 averaging $1,833 to 49.1 million retired workers. Social Security also provided benefits to 2.7 million spouses and children of retired workers, 5.9 million surviving children and spouses of deceased workers, and 8.7 million disabled workers and their eligible dependents.

So again: elderly, children, and the disabled.

So that's what, about 48 percent of the spending right there?

Net interest payments: 14 percent.

Defense spending accounts for 13 percent.

Economic security programs account for about 8 percent (or $545 billion of the 2023 federal budget). Economic security programs include: the refundable portions of the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit, which assist low- and moderate-income working families; programs that provide cash payments to eligible individuals or households, including unemployment insurance and Supplemental Security Income for low-income people who are over age 65 or disabled; various forms of in-kind assistance for low-income people, including the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (formerly known as food stamps), school meals, low-income housing assistance, child care assistance, and help meeting home energy bills; and other programs such as aid for abused or neglected children.

Dunno, maybe you could carve out some of that but, again, a lot goes to the elderly and children.

Benefits for veterans and federal retirees: about 7 percent.

Education, Training, Employment, and Social Services: 5 percent.

Transportation: 2 percent.

Community and Regional Development: 1 percent.

All other program spending: about 3 percent.


So, I don't see a whole lot of deadbeats and lazy bums but plenty of old folks, kids, disabled, and vets in need.


https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-g...

That's it? That's all you can say? You're not going to even attempt to defend your position?

You've already surrendered to the paranoid delusion, which means I have as much chance of convincing you that Trump isn't going to become a dictator as I do the guy on the freeway offramp that the CIA isn't reading his mind from a base on the moon.

"Biden promises not to overthrow Democracy. His opponent sure looks like he is trying to do that and install himself as a dictator for life.

Todays Big Picture interviews the attorney that found Trump liable for the Trump University fraud.

He observed, "Fraud is the micro; fascism is the macro. Fraud is the means; fascism is the end goal for these people. Fraud is the way they bankroll themselves (not just Trump but also Alex Jones, Steve Bannon, et al.). Fascism is their ultimate objective, whereby they will control an entire country and its government, privatizing it and selling it off to loyal cronies — a la Putin and the Oligarchs. They want to privatize the entire school system, the military, the post office, the National Weather Service, any government entity they can monetize for their own personal gain. "

The problem is getting small minds to see the big picture. That's hard to do when they are struggling to make rent, and even harder when it's a wealthy person just managing to keep up with the Joneses. Those country club dues don't pay themsleves.

We have seen him attempting to overthrow Democracy.

--Peter

--------------

Potato... Potatah

Not appoint any more corrupt morons to the Supreme Court for starters?
Keep the economy humming along? It always performs better with a Democrat in the Whitehouse. As does the Stock Market.
The unemployment rate is currently 4.1%.

Compare that with...

Trump's job creation record which was the worst of any American president on record. THE WORST.
No other modern president left the U.S. with a smaller workforce than it had when they took office.
All while adding $8 trillion in new debt in just 4 years. MORE DEBT ACCUMULATED PER YEAR IN OFFICE THAN ANY PRESIDENT EVER.
The bulk of his tax cuts went to large corporations and rich folks like himself.
And of course he didn't cut spending at all so...the trillions went right onto the national debt, and your children and grandchildren will be paying interest on it the rest of their lives.
Sounds great amirite?

No wonder so many repubicans and even his own family members think he's a total disaster...

"The amount he's added to the national debt is indecent." ~Mike Pompeo
"Donald today is much as he was at three years old: incapable of growing, learning, or evolving, unable to regulate his emotions, moderate his responses, or take in and synthesize information." ~Mary L. Trump
"I hate him (Trump) passionately!" ~Tucker Carlson
"He's a &@#$ing moron!" ~Rex Tillerson
"We're on the verge of having someone take over the conservative movement who is a con artist." ~Marco Rubio
"Trump is utterly amoral. A serial philanderer." ~Ted Cruz
"You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell." ~Linsey Graham
Lastly his own sister, who knew him well...
"Donald is cruel, all he wants to do is appeal to his base. He has no principles. None. None. And his base, I mean my God,
if you were a religious person, you want to help people. Not do this.
His go---mned tweeting and lying, oh my god. I’m talking too freely, but you know. The changing stories. The lack of preparation. The lying. Holy s&^t." ~Maryanne Trump

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/dollar-us-economy-...

Trump definitely politicized institutions and issues that should have remained apolitical. He acted like a company owner - if you don't agree with him then you're gone, right or wrong doesn't matter. Truth doesn't matter. We saw this with Covid the most vividly, but also with setting the path of a hurricane with a sharpie. Comey was fired, Jackson-Johnson was rewarded.

100% agree with you here.

That is very far from trying to change the constitution to be a dictator for life.

But you don't have to change the constitution. You just have to ignore it. Dispense with it.

Example.

You lose an election, but do everything you can - legal and illegal - to get people to ignore that and let you stay in office as president. Questioning the election and even filing lawsuits to challenge things is perfectly legal. But when every case it tossed out for lack of evidence, you are done. You lost. So you whip up a crowd to try to scare Congress into letting you stay in office. That's crossing the line into completely ignoring the constitution.

I don't think he is that ambitious or unrealistic.

Then you haven't been paying attention. He actually did try to ignore the constitution once. He didn't succeed. That time. He should not be given another shot at it.

Plus there is no path for him to do that. Way too many democratic (as in democracy) hurdles. I am sure the Congress and the Supreme Court will rebel against him, if only to maintain their own constitutional powers.

Once again, just pay attention. The Supreme Court just handed the President an extremely wide immunity for actions while in office. Trump is already using that ruling to attempt to get court cases which would hold him accountable for his actions dismissed. Congress' only tool is impeachment. That has failed twice. Congress will not hold him accountable because there are too many weak Trump worshippers who have been elected to Congress. Mike Pence - the Vice President of the US - was the only straw that didn't break during Trump's last attempt at overturning a free and fair election. This time around Trump has chosen a weak toady, a mini-Trump with no moral underpinnings, as his Vice President. He will not stand up to Trump.

So while I agree that there are a number of hurdles to cross, he has already shown the ability to knock those hurdles down. And he is set up to knock down the hurdles that stood against him last time around. There is only one hurdle left - this upcoming election.

We already know that Trump has undemocratic tendencies. That he does not accept NO for an answer under any circumstances. He is still claiming that he won the 2020 election, and far too many people agree with him - including members of Congress and quite possibly sitting Supreme Court Justices. He cannot be allowed near the levers of power again. Policies simply don't matter in this setting. The only thing that matters are the moral underpinnings each candidate brings to the office. Trump has none. Biden is one of the few genuinely moral people remaining in government today.

Many on the right refuse to see this. The way they justify their support for Trump is to try to say that Biden is the same. That he's a criminal head of a family criminal enterprise. But as soon as those claims get anywhere near a court room, Trump is shown time and again to be the one who is head of a criminal family, while the accusations against Biden melt in the light of truth that courts shine.

--Peter

Trump did not do a lot of bad things in his first term except

Only a cultist could believe that. It is obvious that Trump is corrupt to the core; one of the most corrupt Presidents in our nation's history.

Here are just some of his ethics abuses...and these are just the bullet points, you can read the voluminous details at the CREW website (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington). https://www.citizensforethics.org/news/analysis/pr...

A second Trump Presidency will be much worse.

Use of Government to Hold Onto Power

Crimes Committed in Connection with Ukraine Abuses

Mounting Hatch Act Violations

Attacks on the Postal Service and Voting by Mail

Using Government Office for Personal Financial Benefit

Emoluments Clause Violations

Conflicts of Interest

Hosting the G-7 at His Own Resort

Cronyism and Patronage

Nepotism and Other Ethics Abuses by Ivanka and Jared

Coronavirus Response

The Trump Rogues Gallery

Criminals in the White House

Corruption in the Cabinet

Attacks on the Rule of Law

Bill Barr’s Department of Justice

Firing Comey and Potential Acts of Obstruction

Interference in DOJ Investigations

Assault on Inspectors General

Industry Influence

EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt

Energy Secretary Rick Perry

NOAA Nominee Barry Myers

Unprecedented Transparency Failures

Failure to Disclose Tax Returns

Separating Children without Records to Reunite Them

Use of Private Email

Well, Joe Biden will not be found guilty by a jury of his peers on 34 counts of falsifying business records in his hush money criminal trial.

Joe Biden will not be found guilty of Raping a Woman. (How do you explain that to your children?)

Joe Biden will not lie to the American people 30,573 times during his presidential term, an average of 21 times per day.

Joe Biden will not lie repeatedly about the election results causing seven American deaths, injuries to 174 police officers, and property damages totaling $3 million.

"If it wasn't my job, I would have done that for free. It was absolutely my pleasure to crush a white nationalist insurrection.
And we'll do it as many times as it takes." ~D.C. Police Officer Daniel Hodges

Lastly Trump thinks he ran against Obama and Jeb Bush got us into the war in Iraq and Nikki Haley was in charge of security on January 6th and Jeffrey Epstein was a "great guy"
and that Joe Biden has us on the verge of WW2!

So, Wow!

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/us/politics/jan...

"How do we know he is not trying? Because he has never been observed doing so. Simple really."

Have you been asleep for the past 5 years and just woke up so you don't know what has been going on?

Oh I forgot the willful ignorance thing........ Sorry.

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