Invite ye felawes and frendes desirous in gold to enter the gates of Shrewd'm, for they will thanke ye later.
- Manlobbi
Personal Finance Topics / Retirement Investing
No. of Recommendations: 4
The TL;DR is: Cry more, democrats.
This is what having a real President looks like.
Let's get the most important factoid out of the way, the one that obliterates everything I've read on the board this morning:
Machado won the last election. She is the rightful ruler of Venezuela. Not Maduro.
Turley:
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/jonathan-turley-wh...Maduro was indicted in a four-count superseding indictment with Diosdado Cabello Rondón, 56, head of Venezuela’s National Constituent Assembly; Hugo Armando Carvajal Barrios aka "El Pollo," 59, former director of military intelligence; Clíver Antonio Alcalá Cordones, 58, former General in the Venezuelan armed forces; Luciano Marín Arango aka "Ivan Marquez," 64, a member of the FARC’s Secretariat, which is the FARC’s highest leadership body; and Seuxis Paucis Hernández Solarte aka "Jesús Santrich," 53, a member of the FARC’s Central High Command, which is the FARC’s second-highest leadership body.FARC is a Communist terror group from Columbia (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia).
Democratic members quickly denounced the operation as unlawful. They may want to review past cases, particularly the decision related to the Noriega prosecution after his capture by the administration of President George H.W. Bush.It's even simpler than that. All that needed to happen was for the rightful leader in Venezuela - Machado - to just ask for help.
No. of Recommendations: 4
Trump does not need congressional approval for this type of operation. Presidents, including Democratic presidents, have launched lethal attacks regularly against individuals. President Barack Obama killed an American citizen under this "kill list" policy. If Obama can vaporize an American citizen without even a criminal charge, Trump can capture a foreign citizen with a pending criminal indictment without prior congressional approval.
For those who want to try to argue the legalities of it all with a smokescreen, JT has you covered:
Noriega also argued that his capture violated the Treaty Providing for the Extradition of Criminals, May 25, 1904, United States of America-Republic of Panama, 34 Stat. 2851 ("U.S.-Panama Extradition Treaty"). The Supreme Court’s decision in United States v. Alvarez-Machain, 504 U.S. 655 (1992), however, was found to bar this argument. The issue was whether he was abducted to the United States with a superseding extradition treaty. The Eleventh Circuit held:
The article of the U.S.-Panama Extradition Treaty upon which Noriega relies for his extradition treaty claim contains almost the same language as the provision of the U.S.-Mexico Extradition Treaty at issue in Alvarez-Machain. See U.S.-Panama Extradition Treaty, art. 5 ("Neither of the contracting parties shall be bound to deliver up its own citizen or subject ․").
Under Alvarez-Machain, to prevail on an extradition treaty claim, a defendant must demonstrate, by reference to the express language of a treaty and/or the established practice thereunder, that the United States affirmatively agreed not to seize foreign nationals from the territory of its treaty partner. Noriega has not carried this burden, and therefore, his claim fails.
The Noriega case offers ample support for the Trump administration, which has had an outstanding arrest warrant for over five years. He is not viewed as the duly elected leader of Venezuela and has been tied to a criminal drug cartel.
No. of Recommendations: 3
This action significantly resets the politics in the Western Hemisphere.
The worldwide "dark web" of the illicit oil trade just took a huge blow.
China's major foothold in the western hemisphere - recall they just sent an envoy to Maduro - is gone.
Cuba's oil supply is cut off.
Iran and Hezbollah's base of operations - and a source of money via drugs - is gone.
Yuge.
No. of Recommendations: 11
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/jonathan-turley-wh... ~TheDope
A Fox News opinion piece?
Asking the real question: is every MAGA a walking advertisement for ignorance?
Trump was right about one thing — "Smart people don’t like me."
For once, he accidentally told the truth.
No. of Recommendations: 3
I've seen video that purports to show US Apache helicopters hitting a Venezuelan base. If that's true, then they were staged from one of Venezuela's neighbors.
Meaning, another country was involved.
No. of Recommendations: 3
No. of Recommendations: 3
That guy notes that Machado's dedication of her Nobel Prize was a brilliant strategic move...
...because it kept the international focus on Venezuela.
No. of Recommendations: 8
Dope1: That guy notes that Machado's dedication of her Nobel Prize was a brilliant strategic move...
If you mean she made a mockery of the Nobel Peace Prize committee by condoning extralegal killings in service of regime change and declaring that Venezuela will be the “energy hub of the Americas,” and the “new global frontier of innovation and wealth creation,” then I think you're onto something.
BTW, Xshitter is not a news source.
No. of Recommendations: 7
"Trump's capture of Nicolas Maduro really shows his commitment to ending the deadly scourge of drug trafficking!" ~Juan Orlando Hernandez
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9qewln7912oStrangely enough, watching Trump abduct another nation’s corrupt president has stirred a flicker of hope in me—that perhaps one day,
some enlightened despot abroad might return the favor and make the US magnificent again!
No. of Recommendations: 4
I see one of the board's best exemplars of left wing intellectualism and skill in debate has this to say:
A Fox News opinion piece?
Indeed. An opinion piece that cited and quoted relevant case law as well as explaining why the raid was legal.
I love this board. For so many reasons.
No. of Recommendations: 3
A Fox News opinion piece? Asking the real question: is every MAGA a walking advertisement for ignorance?
Precisely why I don't waste time reading MAGA posts.
Fox News publishes their opinions before they’ve had the chance to absorb them.
No. of Recommendations: 2
Machado won the last election. She is the rightful ruler of Venezuela. Not Maduro.
iirc, she was not allowed to run, so, supposedly, a substitute candidate "won".
Of course, Maduro would not be the first jumped up piece of poo to ignore the results of an election.
Does anyone really believe that Machado was spirited out of Venezuela by a handful of people, and that one boat captain, without the CIA being hip deep in the exfil? How much has she promised Trump?
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 2
Steve203: How much has she promised Trump?
Evidently more than Maduro.
No. of Recommendations: 3
The TL;DR is: Cry more, democrats.
This indictment is full of dead people, people who've already surrendered to us, and the FARC doesn't exist anymore as it did formerly, now there are teeny splinter groups that have little effect. This looks like a prop for the invasion. So we use this as a prop for MAGA to point to even though it's crap at the moment.
Machado is calling for Gonzalez to take the Presidency, who was thought to be a proxy for Machado - why are you leaving that out? Details are important.
No. of Recommendations: 3
Does anyone really believe that Machado was spirited out of Venezuela by a handful of people, and that one boat captain, without the CIA being hip deep in the exfil? How much has she promised Trump?
I have zero doubts the US helped get her out of the country and that she and Trump worked some of this out in advance. As the rightful leader of Venezuela, if she invites the US in, there you go.
No. of Recommendations: 4
This indictment is full of dead people, people who've already surrendered to us, and the FARC doesn't exist anymore as it did formerly, now there are teeny splinter groups that have little effect. This looks like a prop for the invasion. So we use this as a prop for MAGA to point to even though it's crap at the moment.
Lulz. Cry more.
No. of Recommendations: 3
Trump does not need congressional approval for this type of operation. Presidents, including Democratic presidents, have launched lethal attacks regularly against individuals. President Barack Obama killed an American citizen under this "kill list" policy. If Obama can vaporize an American citizen without even a criminal charge, Trump can capture a foreign citizen with a pending criminal indictment without prior congressional approval.
This argument is not very good, but it'll satisfy MAGA. The reality is that a President can do almost anything for 60 days. They key to me is - do other nations that carry weight with world opinion really care? No, they don't. It took decades for it to get to where those nations don't care. Couldn't do it while Chavez was in power - those nations cared. The first term of Maduro they might have still cared, but now they don't. The excuse for the invasion is full of lies and fabrications, but now that we're there, can we make Venezuela into a good county? It's given that Trump doesn't really care about much beyond the oil, but maybe we can get some serendipity and end up with a cherry and an ally?
Now that we've done this and paid lip service to helping Venezuela, let's see if Trump comes out of this fine or whether it just deteriorates back into authoritarianism but with the oil companies relatively secure.
No. of Recommendations: 4
This argument is not very good
Cry harder. And go ahead and try to impeach Trump over it. Make it a midterm issue.
The excuse for the invasion is full of lies and fabrications
Cry.
Even.
Harder.
No. of Recommendations: 4
No. of Recommendations: 3
Dope: Cry even harder.
Me: What I've said cannot be characterized as crying, so you are avoiding, evading. But expound on the follwowing"
From precious post: "Now that we've done this and paid lip service to helping Venezuela, let's see if Trump comes out of this fine or whether it just deteriorates back into authoritarianism but with the oil companies relatively secure. "
This is an entrenched autocracy Dope. What are your plans? Please give us your best guess at the moment, don't avoid it, no one expects you to be prescient.
No. of Recommendations: 12
Dope1: Russians, Chinese...all exploiting Venezuela.
No longer.
Back in 2019, Fiona Hill testified in Trump's first impeachment trial that Putin and Trumpedo had discussed a trade, "they wanted to make some very strange swap arrangement between Venezuela and Ukraine. In other words, if we were going to exert some semblance of the Monroe Doctrine" [mentioned by Trumpedo today] then Russia would agree to stay out of our backyard (Venezuela) if the U.S. stayed out of its backyard (Ukraine) and let Russia have Ukraine.
No. of Recommendations: 8
"Cry harder. " - Dumbass Dope
"Cry harder" is Dopespeak for when he cannot refute what was said.
No. of Recommendations: 9
"Trump's capture of Nicolas Maduro really shows his commitment to ending the deadly scourge of drug trafficking!" ~Juan Orlando Hernandez
(Does MAGA even know who Juan is? I highly doubt it.)
Oddly enough, watching Trump spirit away another nation’s crooked president has kindled in me a faint,
perverse hope—that someday, a more civilized autocrat from abroad might repay the courtesy and liberate us from our own gilded tyrant.
I can dream!
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9qewln7912o
