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Susan Glasser, The New Yorker: “There have been many times, over the past four years, that covering Trump’s Washington felt like a foreign assignment to me, never more so than while driving around the capital these past few days and seeing boarded-up storefronts and streets cordoned off for blocks around the White House, in anticipation of unprecedented post-election violence. I have seen such scenes before, in places like Azerbaijan and Russia. This is Trump’s America. It is not the America I have known.”

And another memory from 2020:

But President Trump’s actions are still causing significant damage. They undermine his supporters’ faith in the country’s government. They also undermine the credibility of the United States around the world. And they force election officials, journalists and social-media platforms to choose between telling the truth and sounding nonpartisan; it is impossible to do both about Trump’s election claims.-- NYT

ges: I have seen such scenes before, in places like Azerbaijan and Russia. This is Trump’s America.

How far we've fallen. In 1987, Gary Hart suspended his campaign after The Washington Post threatened to run a story about a woman Hart had dated while separated from his wife. Today, Donald Trump has bragged about grabbing women by the p*ssy, has been found liable by a jury for sexual assault, and has had more than two dozen women accuse him of sexual misconduct. And he had an affair with a Playboy model while his third wife, Melania, an immigrant by the way, was pregnant, and raw-dogged a porn star shortly after Melania gave birth to their son.

MAGAts didin't care.

The primary attack on Hillary Clinton in 2016 was her use of a private email server while conducting government business. Classified information on the server was not considered classified at the time but the owning agencies decided to classify documents years later. In the end, three documents in email chains (none started by Clinton) had a "(c)" mark in the body but none of the three had the required classified header. When he left the White House, Donald Trump took more than fifteen boxes and more than 100 of the nation's most highly classified documents to his residence in Mar-a-Lago and stored them in an unlocked bathroom and on a ballroom stage that were accessible to thousands of guests, as well as in his personal bedroom.

MAGAts didn't care.

Donald Trump was found guilty by jury of business fraud and convicted in 34 felony counts.

MAGAts didn't care.

Donald Trump repeatedly threatened to jail and kill reporters, threatened to have rifles pointed in the face of a former member of Congress, and threatened retaliation against former first lady Michelle Obama, congresswoman Pelosi, president Biden, and Mark Milley, and has threatened to beat hecklers, shoot looters, and have a one-day purge with unlimited and unpunishable violence.

MAGAts didn't care.

Donald Trump has bragged about removing pregnancy healthcare from women, a right they have had for more than fifty years, and as women have started to die from lack of proper care, he has called what he did "beautiful."

MAGAts didn't care.

Donald Trump and his running mate made up stories about Haitian migrants and just yesterday Trump said that “100 percent of the jobs that were created [by Biden-Harris] went to migrants, not to people.”

MAGAts didn't care.

Add in gold sneakers, money from the Saudis, EFTs, worthless trading cards, pieces of his suits, fake leather bibles, and an endless stream of other worthless hats, shirts, and paraphernalia, mostly Made in Chyna.

Years from now when historians analyze the Trump presidency and the years of Trump, they will be unable to explain how nearly half of the country's citizens could be so easily conned or so remarkably stupid.

But here we are waiting to see which side that tossed coin lands upon in the next day or so.

Years from now when historians analyze the Trump presidency and the years of Trump, they will be unable to explain how nearly half of the country's citizens could be so easily conned or so remarkably stupid.

No they won't.

They'll conclude that half the country's citizens were unsatisfied with the direction of the economy, driven largely by a rapid post-Covid increase in goods prices (especially necessary goods) and home prices, exacerbated by high interest rates. That, coupled with dissatisfaction over border and immigration policy and a gradual shift of non-college educated working class voters towards voting affinity based on educational attainment (and increasingly gender) rather than race, led to half the voters rejecting the incumbent party and choosing instead to change course.

They'll conclude that half the country's citizens were unsatisfied with the direction of the economy, driven largely by a rapid post-Covid increase in goods prices (especially necessary goods) and home prices, exacerbated by high interest rates. That, coupled with dissatisfaction over border and immigration policy and a gradual shift of non-college educated working class voters towards voting affinity based on educational attainment (and increasingly gender) rather than race, led to half the voters rejecting the incumbent party and choosing instead to change course.

Yeah, yeah. I vote for "nearly half of the country's citizens WERE so easily conned BECAUSE they were so remarkably stupid".

Albaby, this explains why money is betting on Trump and djt, https://www.zerohedge.com/political/math-doesnt-wo...

Years from now when historians analyze the Trump presidency and the years of Trump, they will be unable to explain how nearly half of the country's citizens could be so easily conned or so remarkably stupid.


Or we will witness the end of history and we will live in an authoritarian state.

They'll conclude that half the country's citizens were unsatisfied with the direction of the economy, driven largely by a rapid post-Covid increase in goods prices (especially necessary goods) and home prices, exacerbated by high interest rates. That, coupled with dissatisfaction over border and immigration policy and a gradual shift of non-college educated working class voters towards voting affinity based on educational attainment (and increasingly gender) rather than race, led to half the voters rejecting the incumbent party and choosing instead to change course.


Wise words as always from you, albaby.

But that's not the entire explanation. Our fractured media is part of this equation. Much of the media, especially on the political right (and I'll stand by that), has chosen to abandon norms of ethical journalism in their quest for a dedicated audience and to pursue political ends they are in favor of. I think a hell of a lot of the MAGA crowd is living in a bubble, much of which has little to do with what you've outlined. Just for instance, a whole hell of a lot of Trump's supporters are absolutely convinced that he won the election in 2020.

Things on the right are far from normal.

Yeah, yeah. I vote for "nearly half of the country's citizens WERE so easily conned BECAUSE they were so remarkably stupid".

I vote for a combination of that and this...

"Trump hates the people his supporters hate, and that’s all that matters. All the rest is rationalization." ~MisterFungi

"...unsatisfied with the direction of the economy, driven largely by a rapid post-Covid increase in goods prices (especially necessary goods) and home prices, exacerbated by high interest rates. That, coupled with dissatisfaction over border and immigration policy and a gradual shift of non-college educated working class voters towards voting affinity based on educational attainment (and increasingly gender) rather than race..."

no, these are largely gop talking points that poll as popular grievances and are useful for the appearance of MAGA politics as normative.
the giveaway is the sheer lack of a logical chain of actions which leads to possible solution by any objective measure.
most exasperating is the idea that a defective authoritarian failed businessman, and his wealthy cronies like musk, will make life better for the lesser educated working class (i guess because his track record shows that is what he really lives for ?!?)

if there is any explanation, then it does lie partly in stupidity, as have many such occurrences throughout history described by noted surgeon\financist\historian bill bernstein :
https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-delusions-of-crow...

the giveaway is the sheer lack of a logical chain of actions which leads to possible solution by any objective measure.

How is that a "giveaway"? Presidents get blamed for what happens on their watch - whether it was their fault or not. I used the "fire the coach because you can't fire the players" analogy upthread. If the team is losing, the coach will get the blame - regardless of whether the team's losses stem from anything the coach did or could have done.

Voters hate the inflation they've experienced, so the Democrats get the blame for it. They hate high interest rates if they're buying a house or a car (and even more if they can't buy a house or car because of high rates), so the Democrats get the blame for it. The Democrats get extra political pain for these things because they bungled the political response to high inflation rates back in the day, telling voters that it was "transitory" and moving ahead with their fiscal agenda unchanged, rather than doing anything to acknowledge that voters were really upset by inflation and wanted that to be reflected in government priorities.

Add in voter displeasure over immigration - and a similar mismatch between where voters are and where Democratic messaging was - and it's easy to see why it's a close election.

Albaby, this explains why money is betting on Trump and djt

It explains one theory of how Trump could win, sure. The GOP has had much better performance in early voting this cycle than 2020.

But we don't know what that will mean, in terms of voting. Historically, people who vote early are people that would have voted anyway. In most jurisdictions, it takes some preparation and planning to vote early, either in-person or absentee. Offering non-election day voting options has generally shifted when people who would have voted end up voting, with minimal impact on who votes.

So the fact that the GOP is doing better this time, with Trump not trashing early and absentee voting, is certainly a positive thing for them - votes in the box are better than votes that are contingent on election day convenience. But we don't know if that reflects a real change in eventual ballots, or just Republicans mirroring Democrats in moving more of their votes from E-day to early.

I think you've got to go back further than the current election to understand the MAGA movement. At least to the 2016 election cycle, and perhaps earlier. And I'm not entirely sure I understand it, either.

But at a gut level, its likely a combination of several things mentioned up thread. Economics in rural areas. The rise of social media. Some traditional news outlets losing viewers/readers and willing to trade journalistic ethics for more viewers. Which itself might be rooted in the switch from more local news outlets to large corporate monoliths focused on profits rather than seeing news as a public service. Lowering of education results. Shifting of jobs from manufacturing to lower paid services. Racism and sexism. Political mistakes by candidates. Probably a dozen more things I'm not thinking of quickly.

So I agree that historians will find reasons for the rise of the MAGA movement, but it's going to be a complex combination of reasons, not something as simple as stupidity.

--Peter

In 2020 Dems won.

And Trump and MAGA ceased to be an issue. Poof they were gone.

How far we've fallen. In 1987, Gary Hart suspended his campaign after The Washington Post threatened to run a story about a woman Hart had dated while separated from his wife...etc, etc

Amen. I visited the graves of my parents and their best friends this afternoon--the males being WWII vets who put their lives on the line and took bullets to save the world from the very type of racist fascism that so many seem eager to vote in (and failing that, install by force and/or cheating)--and while I couldn't feel the earth shaking as they turned in their graves just yet, I suspect that if Trump wins and I go back, the ground will be shaking.

Theirs was a generation where personal sacrifices to create a better world for future generations was second nature and done seemingly without a thought and without conceit. Civility was a virtue and daily practice.

How far we've fallen indeed!

"Theirs was a generation where personal sacrifices to create a better world for future generations was second nature and done seemingly without a thought and without conceit"
--------------------------------------------

My Dad and a couple of his brothers ( my Uncles ) were in the thick of some of the nastiest
stuff in WWII. Almost everybody sacrificed for the good of the Country. The Women and the Men
left behind worked their tails off making America the Arsenal of Democracy. The ones I knew,
of that generation, would have kicked trump's ass back to wherever he came from, they did not
like draft dodgers like trump.

Also, pre-draft, life was very tough for them. Many were unemployed. Many were broke.
Many willingly enlisted just to have a paycheck to send back home.

Yeah, they would have seen right thru trump. the silver-spoon, amoral POS that he is.

I'm not tracking it, so don't really know. It's still early enough that there probably aren't any returns yet anyway.

But I do expect the convict to win. First, populism/fascism is on the rise (not just here). Second, it would take an extra something to break that glass ceiling in the US to elect a female. I'm not sure Kamala has it. Third, people are woefully misinformed by their media outlets. Though Kamala does have to overcome her perception regarding the border, and I'm not sure she's done that.

I visited the graves of my parents and their best friends this afternoon--the males being WWII vets who put their lives on the line and took bullets to save the world from the very type of racist fascism that so many seem eager to vote in

My 100 year old father-in-law voted today for Harris.

He is a WWII vet whose B-24 was shot down on his second mission and he spent the last 8 months of the war as a POW.

When he went to vote he was told his ballot had been 'declined'. Fortunately it was straightened out and he got to vote AGAINST FASCISM.

The ones I knew, of that generation, would have kicked trump's ass back to wherever he came from, they did not
like draft dodgers like trump.

Exactly! What has happened to Americans? My parents generation would NEVER have tolerated a scum bag like Trump...not for a minute. He would not be judged any kind of 'real man' by members that generation.

"That......led to half the voters rejecting the incumbent party and choosing instead to change course"

I agree. But how will history account for the MAGA belief that Donald Trump, with his laundry list of "character issues" was actually capable of affecting those changes...or even interested in making those changes?

"Trump hates the people his supporters hate, and that’s all that matters. All the rest is rationalization." ~MisterFungi

I don't believe he hates the people his supporters hate.

In his rarified life he doesn't interface with 'those people' except as an employer. Hotel staff. Resort staff. Gardeners. Construction workers. He appreciates them as they provide a valuto him.

What Trump does well is PANDER; to the haters of 'others,' to the 2A zealots, to the christian warriors. Trump expresses hate simply to get votes.

Actually hating or enabling and empowering haters; I don't know which is worse.

I agree. But how will history account for the MAGA belief that Donald Trump, with his laundry list of "character issues" was actually capable of affecting those changes...or even interested in making those changes?

It wouldn’t need to. If the voters want to change course, they will switch parties. They don’t have to have to delve into the details - they know generally that the two major parties differ on key elements of their economic programs. So if they want a different way of running the country, changing which party is in charge is almost certainly going to accomplish that.

Yeah. they'll change parties - it has zilch to do with tradition or their identity.

Like if rural health centers are a benefit of Obamacare - and now Trump wishes to take those away - them rural folk will just switch to being Democrats.

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