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This makes a total of 6 Chinese nationals caught trying to smuggle in substances that can be used as bioweapons:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edmi/pr/three-chinese...

Three Chinese National scholars from University of Michigan laboratory charged for conspiring to smuggle biological materials into the U.S.
Wednesday, November 5, 2025
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For Immediate Release
U.S. Attorney's Office, Eastern District of Michigan
DETROIT, Mich – Three research scholars from the People’s Republic of China (PRC) were charged today in a criminal complaint with conspiracy to smuggle biological materials into the United States and for making false statements to U.S. Customs and Border Protection Officers, announced United States Attorney Jerome F. Gorgon, Jr. These are the latest charges in a long string of cases stemming from University of Michigan (UM) international research activities.

This board may not be interested in what China does to the US, but China is definitely interested in what China is doing to the US.

China ---they love China.

It's "PUTIN" they hate.


Mind you as usual i'm the outsider. I was against WTO. Against PNTR. Against American corporations setting up shop in China for all the reasons we see now.

This is back when Dems AND Republicans from Newt to bush to bush were all for it.


Even now - -- i still believe that Liberals love their communist authoritarian buddies in Beijing.....but i remember hearing Trump wanted to allow more Chinese students into American colleges.

So who knows.

From the consumer, to the 401K Whore, to the ruling class and even MAGA....China might have branded their asses pretty well.

In the meantime anything from fast food chains to EV to smartphones to quantum to AI they are making such strides ---surely they didn't rip it off from American whore Corporations who were *forced* to partner with Chinese businesses all these decades.


I hate being on the losing country's side.

Only our energy supplies *might* see us thru. Nothing else. Now we dont even have hte human capital we used to. We dont have the spirit either.

It'll never come back. Ever.

Only our energy supplies *might* see us thru. Nothing else. Now we dont even have hte human capital we used to. We dont have the spirit either.

It'll never come back. Ever.

The most fortuitous thing about the United States over time is that the nation has always produced the exact people it needs at the exact right time. I like to think we'll still be able to.

This makes a total of 6 Chinese nationals caught trying to smuggle in substances that can be used as bioweapons:

Where in the article does is say that the substances can be used as bioweapons?

From the description (and other news coverage), it appears they were smuggling in roundworms that are used in research. That's a crime, of course, because we have strict regulation on importing various animals and insects in order to prevent nuisance species and pests. But it doesn't make the materials "bioweapons," or engaging in that kind of smuggling "bioterror."

Is there something in there that specifically claims that these are substances that can be used as bioweapons, or that this has anything to do with bioterror?

Mamdani!!!! The right man, for the right time!!! Praise Jesus Mamdani will SAVE us!!!

From the description (and other news coverage), it appears they were smuggling in roundworms that are used in research. That's a crime, of course, because we have strict regulation on importing various animals and insects in order to prevent nuisance species and pests. But it doesn't make the materials "bioweapons," or engaging in that kind of smuggling "bioterror."


Roundworms cause some $170-ish Billion a year in damages. There have also been Chinese caught smuggling certain fungi into the US.

“At some point, pattern becomes practice. And, apparently, these three men are part of a long and alarming pattern of criminal activities committed by Chinese Nationals under the cover of the University of Michigan. This is a threat to our collective security. We are thankful for the vigilance of our elite federal partners—ICE HSI, FBI, and CBP—as a counterweight against this threat,” said United States Attorney Gorgon.

As for this:

Is there something in there that specifically claims that these are substances that can be used as bioweapons, or that this has anything to do with bioterror?

I'm sure there is a perfectly innocent explanation why the University Of Michigan keeps having the incidents where their researchers keep smuggling potentially harmful things into the United States. In fact, there's never been any kind of instance where CCP-connected entities are running illegal bio labs in the US either, come to think of it.

conspiracy to smuggle biological materials

I learned early to be suspicious of any announcements coming out of Trump’s Justice Department/FBI.

“Biological materuals”? What are we talking about here.

Another grad student from Eastern Europe was arrested several months ago on the same charge. It turned out that the “biological material” she was smuggling was a necessary element of legitimate research being done here, and she simply didn’t realize that she needed to declare it.

So is this “biological material” a legitimate component of legitimate research? Or is it something akin to a precursor ingredient of some sort of bio-weapon?

I don’t know, but given the track record of Pam &Kash, I’m not going to get excited about it till. i know more.

The most fortuitous thing about the United States over time is that the nation has always produced the exact people it needs at the exact right time. I like to think we'll still be able to.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, though I doubt that this cruel gaggle of parading peacocks currently in power fills the bill.

So who knows.

Lenin? Words to the effect "when it comes time to hang all the capitalists, they will sell us the rope".

All the US "JCs" could see in China was profits. Profits from selling to a big population, and profits from access to cheap labor (as Friedman provided philosophical cover for). They would agree to anything, because MONEY.

So, after years of the US, and other western countries, allowing vast amounts of rope to be sold, China is ready to challenge USian hegemony.

iirc, it was August of 2019, that Trump urged US companies to get their supply chains out of China. I had no problem with that ask then. I have no problem with that ask now. Because every dollar we send over there, is another length of rope.

Steve

I'm sure there is a perfectly innocent explanation why the University Of Michigan keeps having the incidents where their researchers keep smuggling potentially harmful things into the United States.

Important research often involves finding ways to ameliorate the harmful damage caused by harmful things. That’s why the researchers need the harmful things.

And there are limited numbers of university research centers that are prepared to handle dangerous biological materials:

The University of Michigan research has multiple biohazard containment facilities, including a Biosafety Level 3 (BSL-3) and Animal Biosafety Level 3 (ABSL-3) facility for advanced infectious disease research. The university is also enhancing its BSL-3 capabilities and operates a Central Biorepository to store and manage biospecimens.

Roundworms cause some $170-ish Billion a year in damages.

We have enough roundworms here at home. We don’t need to import them. Just go to a dog park, scoop up some droppings and you’ll find some without too much difficulty.

So I’m guessing roundworms wern’t the thing being imported, unless it’s a specific Chinese variety/species.

Important research often involves finding ways to ameliorate the harmful damage caused by harmful things. That’s why the researchers need the harmful things.

And there are limited numbers of university research centers that are prepared to handle dangerous biological materials:

The University of Michigan research has multiple biohazard containment facilities, including a Biosafety Level 3 (BSL-3) and Animal Biosafety Level 3 (ABSL-3) facility for advanced infectious disease research. The university is also enhancing its BSL-3 capabilities and operates a Central Biorepository to store and manage biospecimens.


Sure. The University of Michigan is a Big Ten institution, an AAU member and a key part of the Big Ten Academic Alliance. Those make it one of the nation's premiere institutions for research in many fields.

And given its position - and holder of sensitive ratings for handling and storage of pathogens - there's zero probability that the people who work there are unaware of the procedures around that stuff. Especially post-COVID.

Roundworms cause some $170-ish Billion a year in damages. There have also been Chinese caught smuggling certain fungi into the US.

No doubt. Importation of pest animals, insects, plants, and the like is a serious matter. Citrus canker decimated Florida's production a while back.

But that doesn't make this "bioterror," or convert the roundworms into a "bioweapon."

I'm sure there is a perfectly innocent explanation why the University Of Michigan keeps having the incidents where their researchers keep smuggling potentially harmful things into the United States.

Probably not "innocent," in the sense that they were flouting and/or willfully violating the rules against importing certain plants and animals. Clearly there's something wrong with their institutional controls there. But like with any illegal smuggling of animals or plants, it's probably not a "bioterror" situation. If China wanted to illicitly introduce roundworm as a pest insect to damage U.S. agriculture, there's far better (and easier) ways to do it than having very small numbers imported using ordinary import channels by scientific researchers. Just have actual criminal smugglers sneak them over the border and release them. The far more plausible explanation is the simplest one - these people wanted to do biological research and didn't feel like following the law, and thought they could just get away with doing what they wanted.

But that doesn't make this "bioterror," or convert the roundworms into a "bioweapon."

That's certainly one opinion. However, given Bill's post about Michigan's stature in the bio community and the fact that all 3 men were doing research there, it's highly likely that all three were well aware of lab protocols regarding such things. And given that they received "several" shipments according to the statement there's a pattern there.

But sure, you can take the stance this is just a harmless mixup if you like.

But like with any illegal smuggling of animals or plants, it's probably not a "bioterror" situation. If China wanted to illicitly introduce roundworm as a pest insect to damage U.S. agriculture, there's far better (and easier) ways to do it than having very small numbers imported using ordinary import channels by scientific researchers. Just have actual criminal smugglers sneak them over the border and release them. The far more plausible explanation is the simplest one - these people wanted to do biological research and didn't feel like following the law, and thought they could just get away with doing what they wanted.

Or maybe they'd set up labs where they had mice with infectious diseases and what not. Lots of ways. But using Chinese nationals working in US labs in concert with other Chinese nationals who also work with US labs? Nah.

The new Los Alamos.....

That's certainly one opinion. However, given Bill's post about Michigan's stature in the bio community and the fact that all 3 men were doing research there, it's highly likely that all three were well aware of lab protocols regarding such things. And given that they received "several" shipments according to the statement there's a pattern there.

Could be a common mixup or it could be precursors for a bioweapon.

Right now there's not enough info to know what it is.

But sure, you can take the stance this is just a harmless mixup if you like.

I didn't say it was a harmless mixup. Any more than people who deliberately import animals illegally for the pet or meat trade are engaged in harmless mixups. But they're not violating those import laws as part of a bioterror plan, nor are the animals they import bioweapons - even when they're doing it for obvious criminal, illicit purposes those purposes are for profit or gain, not terror.

It isn't clear if the roundworm material was from a strain that affects crops, like the fungus found in July does. Have you found anything on what that roundworm bio material could do?

Any more than people who deliberately import animals illegally for the pet or meat trade are engaged in harmless mixups. But they're not violating those import laws as part of a bioterror plan, nor are the animals they import bioweapons - even when they're doing it for obvious criminal, illicit purposes those purposes are for profit or gain, not terror.

Riiiight. So roundworms are on the same level of pets or some other thing that you'd order off of Alibaba for everyday use?

Sure. The University of Michigan is a Big Ten institution, an AAU member and a key part of the Big Ten Academic Alliance. Those make it one of the nation's premiere institutions for research in many fields.

And given its position - and holder of sensitive ratings for handling and storage of pathogens - there's zero probability that the people who work there are unaware of the procedures around that stuff. Especially post-COVID.

The US is in the hands of a regime that is hostile to education, and wants to defund research. I would not be surprised if his nibs, or the Sec Ed, would offer that the only thing of value at U of M is the football team.

Steve

Riiiight. So roundworms are on the same level of pets or some other thing that you'd order off of Alibaba for everyday use?

No. But they are not a bioweapon, either.

People violate laws for lots of reasons. That's my point with the illegal importation of exotic animals, as an example. Those folks aren't terrorists - they're criminals who are doing it for profit. That doesn't mean that these are "innocent mistakes" or "harmless mixups." It's a false dichotomy that everything that isn't terrorism is a harmless paperwork error or something - there's lots of space between someone not intending to do any harm and someone who is intending to commit bioterrorism.

It's certainly possible that these people were deliberately violating the animal import laws so that they could get their roundworms without following proper procedures. That doesn't support the jump to the conclusion that the reason they were doing that was to commit bioterrorism. I note that they weren't charged with any terrorist activity, and while that doesn't preclude charges being added later it really does suggest that these guys are just "ordinary" criminals and that these aren't "bioterror" arrests.

The US is in the hands of a regime that is hostile to education, and wants to defund research. I would not be surprised if his nibs, or the Sec Ed, would offer that the only thing of value at U of M is the football team.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha!
Okay, sure.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Big Ten universities are doing world class research into quantum computing and hypersonics. Can you guess why that might be?

And why rational people find such work more valuable like this:

https://grantome.com/grant/NIH/R15-DA050178-01

While much is known about the prevalence, incidence and risk factors associated with problem gambling at the population level, less is known about the nature of the relationships between risk factors and gambling, as well as the actual behavioral mechanisms that govern the development and maintenance of gambling. The present research aims to develop and test an innovative animal model of slot machine gambling with pigeons using a token economy. The rigorous control permitted by laboratory methods enables an experimental investigation of the development and maintenance of gambling behavior, as well as for testing some of the key hypotheses advanced to account for gambling.

I'm sure in some minds this is valuable, Nobel-prize winnings stuff, amirite?

No. But they are not a bioweapon, either.

Then let's call them really, really small pets. Kinda like Sea Monkeys back in the day, only smaller.

Those folks aren't terrorists - they're criminals who are doing it for profit.

You're aware of a domestic black market in roundworms?

It's certainly possible that these people were deliberately violating the animal import laws so that they could get their roundworms without following proper procedures. That doesn't support the jump to the conclusion that the reason they were doing that was to commit bioterrorism. I note that they weren't charged with any terrorist activity, and while that doesn't preclude charges being added later it really does suggest that these guys are just "ordinary" criminals and that these aren't "bioterror" arrests.

I get that it's fun and all to argue semantics to such a degree that the debate devolves into What The Definition Of Is Is but I think the larger picture around people not smuggling things into the United States that they shouldn't - especially from China - is by far the more interesting thing to discuss.

And why rational people find such work more valuable like this:

I'm sure in some minds this is valuable, Nobel-prize winnings stuff, amirite?

****cheap shot alert****

Who said anyone in the current regime was rational, or finds research valuable?

His nibs has no chance at any sort of prize for accomplishment in any sort of science. His only shot is a "peace prize" by trying to bully or buy one side of a conflict into surrender. Beyond that, he only cares about profit.

Steve

Who said anyone in the current regime was rational, or finds research valuable?

People who follow research, to name a group.

Maybe some believe that studies of pigeons' gambling habits are the stuff of the Pauling Award but the administration doesn't.

Here, here's some info for you:

https://engineering.purdue.edu/hypersonics
Today’s geopolitical environment is driving intense focus on developing hypersonic systems that meet our nation’s defense and security needs, both now and for the foreseeable future. Given this reality, our nation needs to cultivate the best ideas and harvest resulting innovations from universities to realize the advanced capabilities of these systems.

There is wide agreement on the need for multidisciplinary research that converges state-of-the-art science in aerodynamics, materials, control systems, etc., to create robust hypersonic systems. Universities must collaborate with government and industry to craft multidisciplinary research leading to viable technologies that can be manufactured at scale.

Purdue’s large, interdisciplinary team of hypersonic research experts brings great depth and breadth of experience in basic and applied research for feasibility determination and design of strong, next-generation hypersonic systems. Purdue researchers are advancing experimental methods as well as computational tools in aerodynamics, materials, propulsion and control/trajectories disciplines, systems-level modeling, energetics and rapid verification and validation to reduce the risks involved in acquisition, production and fielding of hypersonic systems.

Research at Purdue that complements the University’s hypersonics work is equally critical to meeting the nation’s requirements. Purdue excels at systems-engineering research, and has demonstrated techniques for systematic integration of multiple technologies amid uncertainty. This advantage is key in achieving rapid innovation and transition to operational use.

Or we could fund pigeon gambling at Weed College in Portland. You can pick.

Then let's call them really, really small pets. Kinda like Sea Monkeys back in the day, only smaller.

How about we call them “biological material” until we know what the deal is.

Typical of the Trump administration, complete with vague references to “terrorism” (which as we know- now applies to immigrants as well as protesting grandmas and Democrats), this thing was announced with all sorts of noise but very little substance.

But of course, the American public needs to keep being afraid of terrorists in order to justify Trump’s dictatorial takeover of the country.

So that could well be his motive.

How do we know that?

Because that is increasingly his MO. And the country sees it for what it is.

(See results of Tuesday’s election)

How about we call them “biological material” until we know what the deal is.

Typical of the Trump administration, complete with vague references to “terrorism” (which as we know- now applies to immigrants as well as protesting grandmas and Democrats), this thing was announced with all sorts of noise but very little substance.

Right, because this is just like importing say, ginger root.

But of course, the American public needs to keep being afraid of terrorists in order to justify Trump’s dictatorial takeover of the country.

You type this, then you type:

(See results of Tuesday’s election)

Why are we having elections in a Nazi dictatorship? Asking for a friend.

Right, because this is just like importing say, ginger root.

I said lHow about we call it “biological material” until we know what the deal is.”

You can call it “pets” or “ginger root if you want.

I’m going to call it “biological material”, because that is what the government is calling it, and I have no reason to doubt that it is exactly that- biological material.

The rest of the nonsense, bells and whistles- that’s just Kash and Pam being Kash and Pam.

But I do look forward to finding out more about that “biological material”.

Strip away the nonsense and the matter will become clearer.
Until then, we really know nothing more than several grad students (Chinese?)at UMich are accused of illegally bringing “biological material” into the country.

You're aware of a domestic black market in roundworms?

Sigh. "Those folks" meaning the black market pet importers in my hypothetical - not the UM researchers. The point I'm making is that not everyone who violates animal import control laws has to be one of either: i) hapless innocent who has violated it by inadvertence; or ii) bioterrorist. So that if I point out, "huh, no indication these people at UM were bioterrorists" that does not mean that they have to be hapless innocents. They might have been deliberately violating the animal control laws - just not for terrorism.

I get that it's fun and all to argue semantics to such a degree that the debate devolves into What The Definition Of Is Is but I think the larger picture around people not smuggling things into the United States that they shouldn't - especially from China - is by far the more interesting thing to discuss.

I mean - maybe? Again, these folks were all actual biological researchers who were scholars at a research university doing biological research. The simplest explanation is probably the most plausible one - these guys genuinely wanted the roundworms so they could do research on them, and it was easier (they thought) to just smuggle them in rather than follow proper channels (if proper channels exist). Not that they intended to commit any kind of bioterrorism or use them as a bioweapon.

I said lHow about we call it “biological material” until we know what the deal is.”

You can call it “pets” or “ginger root if you want.

I’m going to call it “biological material”, because that is what the government is calling it, and I have no reason to doubt that it is exactly that- biological material.

And you're free to do that.
Logic tells us that there's no good reason for importing (illegally) things that cause $170B in crop damage a year.

Until then, we really know nothing more than several grad students (Chinese?)at UMich are accused of illegally bringing “biological material” into the country.

And this is another version of the semantics thing. You're free to adopt this position if you choose.

The point I'm making is that not everyone who violates animal import control laws has to be one of either: i) hapless innocent who has violated it by inadvertence; or ii) bioterrorist. So that if I point out, "huh, no indication these people at UM were bioterrorists" that does not mean that they have to be hapless innocents. They might have been deliberately violating the animal control laws - just not for terrorism.

Which again is an exercise in splitting hairs. I suppose there's a good reason for importing roundworms:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/1903...
Roundworms that feed on plants cause approximately $100 billion in annual global crop damage. Now researchers have made a patent-pending discovery that certain enzymes in roundworms, called nematodes, behave differently than the same enzymes in humans, with amino acids potentially playing a key role.

...but those reasons don't seem very obvious.
It seems more likely that there's a not-so-nice reason for bringing them over. As I said this isn't the first time we've caught people tied to Michigan importing things they shouldn't be importing.

Again, these folks were all actual biological researchers who were scholars at a research university doing biological research.

That's exactly right. Which means they knew damn well what they were doing. You understanding this factoid promotes the Up to No Good hypothesis, yes?

The simplest explanation is probably the most plausible one - these guys genuinely wanted the roundworms so they could do research on them, and it was easier (they thought) to just smuggle them in rather than follow proper channels (if proper channels exist). Not that they intended to commit any kind of bioterrorism or use them as a bioweapon.

I'm going to let General Mattis answer for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTXzcILPPp8

I suppose there's a good reason for importing roundworms

Yes. These specific worms (Caenorhabditis Elegans) are incredibly important in biological research - apparently they're the source of countless research projects. Here's a brief description from the University of Minnesota's Caenorhabditis Genetics Center, which is an entire research group in that university devoted to studying them:

https://cgc.umn.edu/what-is-c-elegans

You understanding this factoid promotes the Up to No Good hypothesis, yes?

Yes - I fully believe they were Up to No Good. Importing prohibited animals on purpose - whether because you want to do research without complying with laws, or because you want to make money on black market pets - is Up to No Good. "Up to No Good" is not the same as "deliberately trying to cause bioterrorism." Clearly these guys were trying to source the specimens they wanted for their research without having to follow the rules. Which is No Good! Animal control rules are there for a reason, and it can be devastating if you don't follow them - whether you're importing C. Elegans for your research or a tanuki just to have as a pet!

But it's not bioterrorism - and you can bet your bippy that if there was even the merest hint of a whisper of a suggestion that these guys were importing these things for bioterrorism, and not just willfully breaking the rules so they could do their research, then they would have been charged with a terrorism count.

Yes. These specific worms (Caenorhabditis Elegans) are incredibly important in biological research

Ok! Progress!

Terrorism, though still possible, is beginning to recede as a possible motive.

Yes. These specific worms (Caenorhabditis Elegans) are incredibly important in biological research - apparently they're the source of countless research projects.

I see. So these guys are just earnest researchers getting more raw material for a cure for cancer or something, is that it? And the don’t have any - I don’t know, legal channels to go through?

But it's not bioterrorism - and you can bet your bippy that if there was even the merest hint of a whisper of a suggestion that these guys were importing these things for bioterrorism, and not just willfully breaking the rules so they could do their research, then they would have been charged with a terrorism count.

Uh, huh. Tell me. If the Feds bust someone for illegally importing Propionyl Chloride (a fentanyl precursor that has legit uses in chemical processing) is it more likely or less likely that the suspect is:

A) Making dye coloring, or
B) Cooking up a bunch of fentanyl

Which do you think?

Uh, huh. Tell me. If the Feds bust someone for illegally importing Propionyl Chloride (a fentanyl precursor that has legit uses in chemical processing) is it more likely or less likely that the suspect is:

A) Making dye coloring, or
B) Cooking up a bunch of fentanyl

Which do you think?

It depends - is the suspect someone who is working in a chemical processing plant working on dye coloring? Or a researcher who is studying propionyl chloride? And is propionyl chloride a very typical chemical for making dye coloring - or one that has emerged as an important substance in a wide variety of research:

The nematode Caenorhabditis elegans has emerged as an important animal model in various fields including neurobiology, developmental biology, and genetics. Characteristics of this animal model that have contributed to its success include its genetic manipulability, invariant and fully described developmental program, well-characterized genome, ease of maintenance, short and prolific life cycle, and small body size. These same features have led to an increasing use of C. elegans in toxicology, both for mechanistic studies and high-throughput screening approaches.

https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/article/106/1/5/17...

These guys are a bunch of biologists working in a biology program at a major research institution, and they were importing animals that are frequently used for biological research.

...and in this hypothetical, this particular type of propionyl chloride is not capable of being used to make fentanyl? The more I research it, this specific species of roundworm - C. Elegans - doesn't seem to be an agricultural pest. It's apparently already fairly well-established in the wild in the United States, with no ill effects. There would be absolutely no strategic consequence to taking a bunch of them and releasing them into the wild, any more than if you took ordinary fruit flies (also often used for scientific research) and let them out.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5419493/

This entire thread has been illuminating- as an example of how right wing fear mongering actually works- beginning with the thread title.

Gotta hand it to ya Albaby, my google fu wasn't good enough to find out what worm.

It depends - is the suspect someone who is working in a chemical processing plant working on dye coloring? Or a researcher who is studying propionyl chloride? And is propionyl chloride a very typical chemical for making dye coloring - or one that has emerged as an important substance in a wide variety of research:


Hmm. If we have someone in the chemical industry, that only makes your point less tenable as they *know* that compound is on the DEA's radar.

These guys are a bunch of biologists working in a biology program at a major research institution, and they were importing animals that are frequently used for biological research.


"Importing"? That's a great euphemism for "smuggling", which is the word you should be using.

This entire thread has been illuminating- as an example of how right wing fear mongering actually works- beginning with the thread title.

Nah. More like Occam's razor in action.
And how libs will refuse to let anything go. The Trump hate won't allow it.

It's not smuggling stuff, the stuff is just undocumented.

Only right wing maga trumpers are so full of hate towards undocumented refugee invertebrates. Species should be free to migrate, there should be open boarders.

On a more serious note, at least these little *uckers don't have arms so they can't stab you on public transit, unlike some larger forms of undocumented vermin.

"Importing"? That's a great euphemism for "smuggling",

I think he's made a case that the word terrorism likely doesn't apply. These round worms aren't harmful even if they get out. So this is just word play now.

Hmm. If we have someone in the chemical industry, that only makes your point less tenable as they *know* that compound is on the DEA's radar.

No one's saying these folks are innocent - they clearly weren't following the rules, and I agree that they probably knew what the rules were. Just that this isn't anything that involves "bioterror" or "bioweapons."


"Importing"? That's a great euphemism for "smuggling", which is the word you should be using.

Probably just used that because it's the word you used. Your hypothetical described it as "illegally importing":

Uh, huh. Tell me. If the Feds bust someone for illegally importing Propionyl Chloride (a fentanyl precursor that has legit uses in chemical processing) is it more likely or less likely that the suspect is:

Since that's what I was responding to, I reflexively just paralleled your word usage without giving it too much thought. Occupational hazard of just dashing of responses on a message board, I guess.

I think he's made a case that the word terrorism likely doesn't apply. These round worms aren't harmful even if they get out. So this is just word play now.

You can’t do what they did. What’s hilarious is that you’re all convinced now that their smuggling is for some altruistic purpose!

And btw it was wordplay from the start…just as I said upthread.

What’s hilarious is that you’re all convinced now that their smuggling is for some altruistic purpose!

No, we're not. They clearly broke the rules, and we agree they probably knew what they were doing. It's illegal to impo...I mean, smuggle animals without following the rules.

But the animal in question is harmless, and already well-established in the wild in the United States. While they certainly did something wrong, it also certainly was neither bioterrorism or smuggling in a bioweapon.

And btw it was wordplay from the start…just as I said upthread.

It's not mere wordplay. People's feeds get filled with stuff like this - things that start with an actual event or fact, but then get layered with misconceptions or outright falsehoods. Because the kernel of the story is true, then people believe that the extra layers are true. And the accumulation of all those extra layers of false information ends up giving people some very wrong ideas about what's actually going on in the world.

So it's important to realize that while these folks were definitely breaking the rules that prohibit bringing in live animals (certain exceptions not relevant here), they were not engaging in bioterrorism or bringing in a bioweapon. Illegal, very likely criminal - but not terrorism, not part of an effort to attack the U.S. or cause widespread harm.

You can’t do what they did.

On this we all agree. No argument. They may even face charges or a fine- perhaps even deportation.

But it doesn’t look to be terrorism.

Which begs the question: Why did the federal government hype this up and present it as a diabolical terrorist plot?

And why did you fall for it?

This smells like just another thrown ham sandwich.

On this we all agree. No argument. They may even face charges or a fine- perhaps even deportation.

But it doesn’t look to be terrorism.

Yes on the first, don't know on the second.

It's hilarious how all of you got triggered by 1 word in the thread title.

Why is it that easy to set you off?

You can’t do what they did.

How many times do we have to acknowledge that before you stop saying it?

How many times do we have to acknowledge that before you stop saying it?



Perhaps when you people stop being triggered.

It's hilarious how all of you got triggered by 1 word in the thread title.

Why is it that easy to set you off?

No one's triggered or "set off." You posted a topic of conversation, people noted that although you referred to it as bioterrorism and a bioweapon, that didn't seem to be reflected in the actual article. If you had just said, "oh, I see" - or something similar to that - it would have just ended. You had a wrong initial take (or were repeating someone else's characterization of the story), and once that was pointed out to you, you could have just taken in the information and everyone would have moved on.

Instead you pushed back and argued that your labelling of this as bioterror or involving a bioweapon was correct. So people just continued the discussion with you, looked a little more into it, and presented even more information that showed your initial take was wrong.

You can do what you want, of course. It's a message board. But it's not us being "triggered" if you make a mistake and we point it out to you, but you keep arguing and arguing the point. We're just patiently explaining why you're incorrect for as long as you want to keep talking about it.

It's hilarious how all of you got triggered by 1 word in the thread title.

Normally we wouldn’t, but the word “terrorism” is a recurrent one in this administration’s justification for its war on American democracy.

As steve might say: Keep the proles frightened while you tear apart the constitutional order.

Tuesday’s results should be a wake-up call for the right, not an excuse to double down.

Some got the message. Apparently, not everyone did.

Because USA is bad, everyone else is good.

It's obvious that like roaches, if you catch a few, there are hundreds or thousands hiding in the walls.

Actually, I was curious about the bioterrorism label. Remember during the Covid 19 pandemic poeple receiving seed packets from China? And just back in July another Chinese received a fungus, but one that's been here for over a hundred years. I perk up, but there's usually an explanation that falls far short of bioterrorism. I'll perk up if you bring it up again, because it's interesting and worth a discussion.

That is all. You may go back to trolling.

Because USA is bad, everyone else is good.

little marco continues his fractured fairy tale recitation of FOXNews’ “What Liberals Believe”.

When will little marco wake up and realize that the right wing sound machine has sold him a load of road apples?

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