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Author: bighairymike   😊 😞
Number: of 48502 
Subject: Ukraine Aid
Date: 02/24/2024 6:28 PM
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I am for the aid package for Ukraine and observe the sense of urgency that arises when the aid package is discussed.

Q: What is the source of this urgency?

A: The brave Ukranians are loosing hard won ground because they are running out of ammunition.

OK, urgency apparent.

But before we write that big check, one more question.

Earlier when this expenditure was being debated, its supporters pointed out the funding was mostly being spent within the USA, to pay US manufacturers to produce the munitions necessary to replenish US stockpiles that were depleted by prior donations to Ukraine.

So the question is, "How is the real-time ammo shortage in Ukraine going to be relieved by ammunition that is not even manufactured yet and will take years to fully replenish?"



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Author: Lapsody 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48502 
Subject: Re: Ukraine Aid
Date: 02/24/2024 6:54 PM
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Here's the Eurp side of it:

<snip>Efforts in Europe to step up production have, admittedly, been notable this month, from Norwegian-Finnish ammunition maker Nammo switching to 24-hour production and Germany’s Rheinmetall announcing a new German plant which will produce 200,000 shells a year, plus a factory in Ukraine itself with a local partner to produce “a six-digit number of 155mm caliber bullets per year in the future.”

The U.K., which has supplied 300,000 rounds of various calibers to Ukraine so far, has committed to an eight-fold increase in 155mm production capability, with new BAE Systems’ production lines expected to be operational by 2025.

What that means in terms of output, however, is unclear.

“We do not disclose production capacity or stockpile numbers for operational security reasons,” an Ministry of Defence spokesperson told Defense News.

A clue did come in 2020 when the MoD said it was building up to large-caliber shell production levels of approximately 100,000 rounds a year.

Back on the continent, the EU’s Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton is expected to launch a new strategy for securing extra defense investment on Feb. 27, while on March 15 Brussels will name up to 30 ammunition firms picked to benefit from €500 million in funding to beef up production.

But despite all the efforts, RUSI analyst Nick Reynolds was nonplussed. “We are two years into the war and the West is still looking at its industrial capacity, its lead times. It’s not optimal,” he said.

One option backed by the Czech Republic this month is for Europe to go beyond its boundaries to buy munitions - a solution backed by the ASD industry lobbying group.

“It could serve as a bridge until the European industry has reached the production capacity required to meet the demand,” the organization’s spokesman said.

In the short term, however, Reynolds said whatever solutions were put into play now, Ukraine would not be able to match Russia on the front line this year.

“Russia will have its four million shells this year, which is more than Ukraine can hope to have. It is more than Europe, NATO and the U.S. can supply before taking their own restocking into account. Russia will have artillery advantage in 2024,” he said.

That does not mean, though, that Ukraine will lose the war, but it will give Russia time to rearm, he added.

“Russia’s armed forces have lost a great deal of combat power. Its ability to carry large scale maneuvers is reduced by losses, but it can still do damage with attrition, especially if Ukraine is short of munitions,” he said.

“We may not see Russian advances in the short term, but it now has time to rebuild its combat power. Seeing little change on the map now should not lull us into a false sense of security.”<snip>

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/02/...




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Author: bighairymike   😊 😞
Number: of 48502 
Subject: Re: Ukraine Aid
Date: 02/24/2024 7:48 PM
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Here's the Eurp side of it: - Lapsody

--------------

That article was interesting, there a lot of countries and and a lot of moving parts, so many that I don't see how a cohesive supply line could emerge but that is an aside.

The article does show the large scale effort and the number of programs underway, but in no way does it support the sense of urgency projected by the supporters of the aid package.

Pass it today, pass it next month, the ammo situation on the ground in Ukraine will be the same either way in the near term.
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Author: Lapsody 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48502 
Subject: Re: Ukraine Aid
Date: 02/24/2024 9:57 PM
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Pass it today, pass it next month, the ammo situation on the ground in Ukraine will be the same either way in the near term.

Sounds like you asked a question you had a pre-determined response too to me. :)

But if you kept up with it part of the aid package is money to help in gearing up the ammo manufacturing. So, the later that gets gto them, the later the whole thing starts. And if you actually did follow, they talked about this in 2022, with more articles, with urgency starting in October 2023. Your blase attitude toward it is just ignorance. But I will say this much -

I've been amazed at how fast production can come on line. Get the right people and you can have the line up in six months depending. Some things require specialty materials - so make sure you have a supply that isn't controlled by China, etc.

BTW, you aren't really for Ukraine aid if you have that attitude, are you?

Y'all tied the aid to the border, you had the best deal I'll see in my lifetime and blew it. And isn't the orange guy supporting Ukraine now? Probably saying no one supports Ukraine like he does.

Which of his lawsuits is up next? Are you chipping in for his legal bills?

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