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Author: WatchingTheHerd HONORARY
SHREWD
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Number: of 48490 
Subject: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 5:26 PM
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February 16, 2024 marks yet another milestone date in American Presidential history. A final judgment was issued in the civil fraud trial in New York State against Donald Trump. With a cumulative price tag of $364 million dollars across four defendants, $355 of it against Donald Trump individually, there is much to unpack.

For reference, the entire ruling is accessible on the following link at The New York Times:

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttool...

The top-level judgment imposes a $355 million dollar penalty on Donald Trump, a $4,013,024 dollar penalty on Donald Trump, Jr., a $4,013,024 dollar penalty on Eric Trump, and a $1 million dollar penalty on Allen Weisselberg. (Weisselberg was paid a $2 million severance by The Trump Organization as hush money so this claws back half of that severance.)

While Trump will appeal this, delaying a final, FINAL status on this case and the final financial penalties paid, the defendants will be obligated to put up a bond for the penalty amounts within 30 days if an appeal is filed. Even if Trump files an appeal, the stated interest rate he will pay on any bond will be 9%. That's $31,950,000 dollars per year just in INTEREST.

That means this ruling DOES impose an IMMEDIATE, astronomically large demand for CASH upon Donald Trump. If Trump's financial past is current events and prologue, Trump MIGHT be rich on paper but he is absolutely NOT cash rich. The vast majority of his "wealth" is tied up in real estate which is NOT a liquid asset in the best of economic circumstances (global or personal). If you have thirty days to raise $355 million dollars, you are NOT going to get top dollar on anything you are selling with a gun to your head.

This immediate demand for cash is even more dangerous to Trump than it first appears. The vast majority of his empire is debt financed and seemingly none of it is on a cashflow glide path to reach a safe, predictable payoff at future scheduled dates. Much of his financial business plan involves continually refinancing loans and deferring the inevitable recognition that the business plan is not producing cash streams able to sustain the debt load. There are likely notes coming due every year that require SOME cash to toss at banks as fees and premiums to convince them to re-finance. Already, no American banks were willing to loan him money. He now has ZERO free cash to provide those incentives. Anything he sells off to produce cash can trigger further write-downs of remaining assets which can trigger debt covenant language to call in other notes.

The ruling requires the existing Independent Monitor to provide a summary within 30 days of any additional authorities she needs to ensure compliance of the operating companies during the three year period. The language says:

Within 30 days of this Decision and Order, Judge Jones shall submit a proposed order to the Court outlining the specific authority she believes that she needs to keep defendants honest, and the obligations of defendants, to effectuate a productive and enhanced monitorship going forward.

Given the nature of the defendants, it would appear that request will need to include some sort of flux capacitor based technology to generate the energy required to reverse time and undo seventy years of criminal entropy unleashed by Trump's warped psyche.

The babysitter restrictions for external monitoring require Trump's companies to provide sixty days notice to the Independent Monitor prior to any transfer of funds between companies or any attempt borrow new money. He cannot simply shift assets to Florida incorporated businesses and anyone offering to loan him money will undergo public supervision. This is obviously required for preventing new fraud (and potential new corruption with foreigners trying to buy influence with someone who MIGHT become President again). It also imposes significant logistical delays in ANY deal Trump needs to land to unload a property to raise cash. All of this works AGAINST Trump and FOR any potential buyer, putting MORE downward pressure on all of the assets.

Part of the judge's ruling explains the context of the penalties by describing the track record of fraud in Donald Trump's career. As the judge said in the ruling, This is not defendants' first rodeo. He goes on to itemize the 2013 suit for fraud related to Trump University costing Trump $25 million, the 2018 lawsuit for fraud related to the Donald J. Trump Foundation, a 2022 settlement between the Washington DC Office of Attorney General and Trump regarding excessive payments paid to Trump by the 58th Inaugural Committee for use of the Old Post Office building Trump operated. He then goes on to mention that WHILE UNDER TRIAL FOR THIS FRAUD, the Independent Monitor identified additional actions taken by Trump which violated the interim agreement via unauthorized transfers of moneys, etc. Perhaps the coup de grace was a mention that oh, BY THE WAY, you haven't even hired a new CFO after "firing" Allen Weisselberg so you've been operating this multi-million dollar enterprise with zero executive financial supervision.

As MSNB commentator Andrew Weissmann put it, the requirement that Trump be banned from operating any company in the state of New York for three years and the requirement of continuous Independent Monitoring of the existing corporations raises an important point for voters in November. You're running for President to control the financial books of the entire country and a judge has ruled you cannot be trusted to touch a single aspect of one company in one state? Why should you be trusted to run the United States of America?


WTH
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Author: g0177325   😊 😞
Number: of 48490 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 6:12 PM
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Great summary of things, as usual. But help me parse the bolded part of this sentence:

"If Trump's financial past is current events and prologue, Trump MIGHT be rich on paper but he is absolutely NOT cash rich."
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Author: sano 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15071 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 6:26 PM
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WTH: "Already, no American banks were willing to loan him money."

Wasn't so long ago the Erik Trump boasted that they had access to enough Russian financing that they didn't need American bank money.

""We don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia." Eric Trump, son of President-elect Donald Trump, left, arrives at Trump Tower in New York, Monday, Jan. 16, 2017. ""

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Author: WatchingTheHerd HONORARY
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Number: of 15071 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 6:28 PM
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Trump's series of financial woes in the 1980s and early 1990s disclosed the fact that he had nowhere near the CASH position to afford the public trappings that were associated with him even at that time. He was essentially a typical American living on home equity loans, continually refinancing existing properties, each time leveraging increases in appraised values to justify higher loan amounts while pulling out some of the cash to live on and pay for his planes, multiple homes, etc.

By the time his casino lark in Atlantic City went bankrupt, the banks involved in restructuring all of the debt to allow the casinos to remain open to try to produce more cash concluded that they would have to continue this practice of tossing money at Trump the individual even though The Trump Organization was taken out of the deal. Why? Because his name was still on the properties and the banks feared if his public profile slid from billionaire to bankrupt bozo, it would further impair the value of the casinos making it even less likely they would recover their money.

https://watchingtheherd.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-key...

In the 1989 to 1992 time frame, Donald Trump was struggling to regain financial security after his trio of Atlantic City casino investments all tanked simultaneously. Banks involved with the casino bankruptcies were so deeply exposed that their re-investment plan to stabilize the casinos essentially guaranteed Donald Trump a mere $450,000 per month "allowance" aimed at ensuring he could maintain the Trump mystique and public persona that would continue attracting the rubes into the casinos and avoid spooking second tier creditors, triggering an irrecoverable collapse ("in for a penny, in for a pound…"). During that same time frame, his father Fred Trump was already beginning to suffer cognitive declines from still-undiagnosed Alzheimers.

I doubt anything has changed. The underlying modus operandi of the Trump business model is to run a fleet of shell companies, focus on the initial, most speculative phase of real estate developments that produce inflated valuations before reality sets in, manipulate accounting to inflate numbers involving credit, understate numbers driving taxes, screw all contractors big and small, intimidate foes via frivolous lawsuits, and bleed business money as rapidly as possible into personal assets shielded from judgment against the business entities. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.


WTH
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Author: Lapsody 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15071 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 6:30 PM
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I'm a hopin' there's no or little reduction. I'm just not sure how monitors, without investigative staff, can ride herd on that bunch. I do appreciate his cash problem, but he does have the RNC now as a cash cow. Let the screws turn and see what happens.
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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15071 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 6:42 PM
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Quibble. The Executive does not control the purse strings. The Legislative does.

And MAGA won't care about any of this. They're for Trump. Period. Last I knew, that was a solid 30% of the population, and an additional 10% of "classic" Republicans. With ~40% Dems, that leaves 20% swing voters who will decide the election (as usual). Of course, my numbers could be out of date.
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Author: WatchingTheHerd HONORARY
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Number: of 15071 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 6:55 PM
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Quibble. The Executive does not control the purse strings. The Legislative does.

---------------

I think Weissmann's point was that the right or wrong President has ENORMOUS influence on the country's financial position, through spending priorities, choice of negotiation tactics with Congress and numerous unilateral powers to make HUGE decisions with decades long financial impacts like invading countries, looking the other way as enemies extort allies, etc. Trump can only focus on immediate impacts to HIS personal financial well-being and he frankly sucks at that. He is completely unable to comprehend even immediate impacts of his policies on the COUNTRY'S financial well-being, much less first and second derivative effects that feed upon each other over months / years / decades with exponential impacts.


WTH
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Author: Lapsody 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15071 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 6:58 PM
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The underlying modus operandi of the Trump business model is to run a fleet of shell companies, focus on the initial, most speculative phase of real estate developments that produce inflated valuations before reality sets in, manipulate accounting to inflate numbers involving credit, understate numbers driving taxes, screw all contractors big and small, intimidate foes via frivolous lawsuits, and bleed business money as rapidly as possible into personal assets shielded from judgment against the business entities. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

And one would think you cannot continue to do that, but you can. You already don't have morals or ethics - those are for suckers. Dirty money presents itself and fits right in. Who else is going to overpay for condos, etc., which helps bail out and ease the strain of strings of failures. And when a new grift presents itself - a whole new batch of people who don't know you.

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Author: weatherman   😊 😞
Number: of 15071 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 9:30 PM
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i dont think trump will get a 9% appeal bond rate.
this is not transacted by the government, but by a 3rd-party that sets the rate. estimates seem to be in the 20% rate, but these do not seem to be coming from financial institutions that actually want to do business with trump. (i.e., the risk of having to sue\jail him to get the rest is exactly what public courts and prior lenders want to avoid)

but there is hope! Axos bank CEO is a friend of MAGA , has made recent loans to Trump Org., and cares not much regarding public shareholder governance.

if you ask me, trump should just get it from musk or putin, who are both 2-3 orders of magnitude wealthier than trump. (and by trump logic, that much smarter and better looking) after all, what's a 2X premium for laundered money evading sanctions?

(and there is always that stench of the DWAC IPO fleecing someone may lend against)
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Author: WatchingTheHerd HONORARY
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Number: of 15071 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/16/2024 10:51 PM
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So the financial numbers are significantly worse and more murky than outlets were reporting initially after the judgment was released.

The figure now being cited as "the amount" is $455 million. That is roughly $355 x 1.09^3 or $355 million compounded at 9% for three years. It seems in NYS, civil fines for these types of actions are applied with interest from either the date of the offense (or maybe the last offense?) or from the date charges are filed. The 9% rate is actually driven by a component of state law which until 2024 had been 9% but was lowered to 2% by a bill passed by the NYS Legislature and signed by Governor Hochul. So I guess Trump has THAT to look forward to... Accrued interest on FUTURE civil judgments will only cost him 2% interest.

Also as I understand what is being conveyed about New York State law regarding civil judgments, if you appeal a judgment, you have only 22 days to pay the cash or post a bond into a state escrow while working your appeal. There also seems to be a 120% factor that applies as well so it COULD be that Trump would need to actually find

$355 x 1.09^3 x 1.2 = $551 million

just for this fraud verdict. He also has the $83 million judgment pending from the E. Jean Carroll trial subject to the same math. Apparently, the person owing civil penalties owes interest while their appeal is pending so just that interest could be nearly $55 million dollars per year, as much as he's spending on legal fees at the moment.

A reporter for Bloomberg that has been following Trump stated that Trump has actually been anticipating this cash draw and has been quietly trying to sell smaller properties for probably the last year. Part of this activity could also be a reflection of a cash crunch that began during his presidency when many of his income sources from licensing deals collapsed when other businesses wanted nothing to do with the Trump "brand."

One concern with all of this... The Special Purpose Acquisition Company (SPAC) that was set up in 2021 shortly after Trump exited office to arrange an IPO for Trump's media company (the one that operates Truth Social) has been given approval by the SEC. Financial journalists are estimating that IPO could eventually be worth about $4 billion to Trump. However, it is not likely that deal will close soon enough to satisfy this cash draw. More critically for Trump, his stake in the company has restrictions which prevent him from unloading any of his shares for six months after any deal closes. Even if a deal closed on February 19, Trump would be unable to sell his shares until August 19. Since Truth Social has had issues paying monthly bills for basic data center operations at the core of its operation, it does not appear to be highly profitable so it isn't clear what is driving the current valuation. I'm sure it has nothing to do with rich foreigners trying to curry favor with someone who might regain the Presidency.


WTH
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Author: Lapsody 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48490 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/17/2024 2:05 AM
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WTH Also as I understand what is being conveyed about New York State law regarding civil judgments, if you appeal a judgment, you have only 22 days to pay the cash or post a bond into a state escrow while working your appeal. There also seems to be a 120% factor that applies as well so it COULD be that Trump would need to actually find

Yes, I've been following a mega thread on Reddit for this, and this NY law surprised me. Not sure how his strategy of delay forever is going to work with this law. He still doesn't have a CFO does he?

Lotsa people thinking he's totally screwed now. And there's more lawsuits.
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Author: weatherman   😊 😞
Number: of 48490 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/17/2024 9:59 AM
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i mis-wrote 9% appeal bond 'rate' when i meant something more like 'fees'.
i was trying to estimate actual upfront non-refundable money trump has to cough up for the 2 civil cases by around March.

quick search on reddit thread did not provide this.
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Author: lizgdal   😊 😞
Number: of 48490 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/17/2024 11:50 AM
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This CNN video says Mar A Lago is debt free, worth around $300M, and could be used as collateral for a $200M loan from a billionaire or sovereign. The video says Trump has about $400M in cash.

Can Trump afford $355 million fine? Forbes editor weighs in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmkYLIqjna0
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Author: commonone 🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 48490 
Subject: Re: Trump's $364 Million Dollar Civil Fraud Judgm
Date: 02/17/2024 12:09 PM
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lizgdal: This CNN video says Mar A Lago is debt free, worth around $300M...

Not with its current easement which includes restrictions that prevent expansions on the property and that obligate the owner to bring in at least 100 people who otherwise wouldn't go to Mar-a-Lago to visit the grounds and study its architecture. Oh, and this: "the Club and Trump intend to forever extinguish their right to develop or use the Property for any purpose other than club use."

Trump argues that the word "intend" would allow him to do whatever the hell he wants.

lizgdal: Can Trump afford $355 million fine? Forbes editor weighs in

But as has been pointed out, it's not $355 million, it's closer to $500 million when interest and the E. Jean Carroll dollars are included.
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