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The week's question
In March 2025, in the thread "Re: OT, out", Umm asked the members: "Do you think it is because America is made up of magical soil that makes businesses based in America magically profitable?" This week it is put to everyone again. The button below opens the small thread re-asking it - read what others have said so far, then give your own answer as an ordinary reply.
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Personal Finance / Macroeconomic Trends & Risks
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Author: mechinv   😊 😞
Number: of 4582 
Subject: Re: S&P 500 hits record high
Date: 01/29/24 8:23 PM
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Both the S&P 500 and your favorite, Berkshire Hathaway, are hitting record highs, so what are we arguing for? We should both be out celebrating.

It's a great quote, but unfortunately it is completely contradicted by the actual data results. ... So, other than being completely wrong, it's a great insight..

You're comparing apples and oranges. When looking for correlations, Citigroup's Director of Equities put market P/E ratios on the x-axis, whereas you put CAPE ratios there.

P/E and CAPE are not the same thing! The P/E ratio is simply price divided by trailing 12-months EPS. Whereas, to calculate CAPE, you need to average the EPS over the past 10 years AND you have to adjust those earnings for INFLATION. Inflation is a whole 'nother dimension that a simple P/E doesn't capture.

So you can't accuse Citigroup's Director of being wrong. He's a quant, just like you. When he says there's no correlation between simple P/E ratios and forward market returns, he's 100% correct. Because he's not talking about CAPE. If you plot simple TTM market P/Es against forward market returns, the scatterplot looks like a mess. No correlation.

If you put inflation-adjusted CAPE values on the x-axis, then, as your own study showed, there is still no ability to say anything about market returns over the next 1 to 3 years. But you start to see a correlation over the next 4 to 10 years. You see it using post-1996 10-year returns.

So here's the bottom line.

Can you use the market's simple P/E ratio to time the market over the next 1 to 3 years? No

Can you use the market's simple P/E ratio to plan your retirement which is 10 years away? No

Can you use the market's CAPE ratio to time the market over the next 1 to 3 years? No

Can you use the market's CAPE ratio to plan your retirement which is 10 years away? Yes, if you believe the post-1996 results will continue.

Is there a correlation between CAPE and forward 10-year returns since the early 20th century (120+ years)? No




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