Post New

...out of the MTG Turning Point USA conference speech and it's pretty darn good.

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/16814247373844...

Trump presently is polling ahead of Biden on fivethirtyeight. Which I find shocking.

I don't care which party someone is...if they're a con-man, crook, wannabe-dictator, utter moron, I'm not voting for that person. Trump is all those things. If Trump were the Dem front-runner, I'd plan on voting Rep in 2024. There are just some things that are so disqualifying (for me) that they cross any party affiliations.

He should just copy Morning in America. This to highlight how he's serving out part of Reagan's 3rd term.

Trump presently is polling ahead of Biden on fivethirtyeight. Which I find shocking.

Shocking indeed. Says something about the sad state of the electorate. Too many are eager to throw away our democracy.

Shocking indeed. Says something about the sad state of the electorate. Too many are eager to throw away our democracy.

Which I don't get. Do people really want to burn it all down? I get being angry and frustrated about things. I am too about several issues. But to burn it all down?? That's the act of totalitarianism.

My loyalty is to the country, not a political party. Certain characteristics -for me- are disqualifying, no matter what else the candidate says or which party he/she is in. Trump has many of those characteristics. I would rather Biden not run again, but between him and Trump I have to go Biden. I try not to be age-ist, but Joe is really old. He may or may not be suffering early dementia. I dunno, but I'd rather not risk it. Reagan appeared to have it the last few years of his second term.

Too many are eager to throw away our democracy. - ges

------------------

Or restore it, depending on your perspective.

I don't care which party someone is...if they're a con-man, crook, wannabe-dictator, utter moron, I'm not voting for that person

Looks like you won't be voting for Biden....
Utter moron tops the list.

bighairymike: Or restore it, depending on your perspective.

How, specifically, has democracy been lost? You keep writing these statements as if they're factual -- I asked you in another thread to reveal the "malfeasance" you claimed existed in the Biden administration and you didn't or couldn't -- so c'mon, let's hear how democracy has been lost.

Thanks.


LurkerMom: Looks like you won't be voting for Biden....
Utter moron tops the list.

Biden is of average intelligence, about the same as Trump. But tell us, specifically, why he is a moron? And if you're going to rattle off a few examples of Biden misspeaking, name another politician who has not misspoken many, many times. And while you're at it, please provide a comprehensive list of Trump's accomplishments in office and why he deserves to return to the WH more than Biden.

Thanks.

How, specifically, has democracy been lost? You keep writing these statements as if they're factual -- I asked you in another thread to reveal the "malfeasance" you claimed existed in the Biden administration and you didn't or couldn't -- so c'mon, let's hear how democracy has been lost. = CO

The constitution clearly established three branches and established the president as the head of the executive branch. The president embodies the will of the people and is accountable to the electorate. When the permanent administrative state works to undermine the president, they are effectively usurping the will of the people. The administrative state is eager to embrace, expand and implement the policies of a democrat president in support of the will of the people but also serves to be a "necessary" check on the power of a Republican president whose election apparently is not the legitimate will of the people.

The politicization of the DOJ is a prime example. I know you don't see that and will never agree there is bias, but that doesn't negate the opinions of those of us who do. That is why we have elections.

The administrative state is eager to embrace, expand and implement the policies of a democrat president in support of the will of the people but also serves to be a "necessary" check on the power of a plausibly criminal president whose election apparently is not the legitimate will of the people.

A criminal is a criminal regardless of partisan affiliation.

Why do you believe the DOJ, a relatively conservative law and order agency, is enforcing laws against Trump because he identifies as a Republican?

A criminal is a criminal regardless of partisan affiliation.

Why do you believe the DOJ, a relatively conservative law and order agency, is enforcing laws against Trump because he identifies as a Republican? - sano

-------------

Why do you believe I was talking about Trump? Fine go after him. The courts will sort it out. But also go after other apparent criminal behavior with equal vigor.

Which I don't get. Do people really want to burn it all down? I get being angry and frustrated about things. I am too about several issues. But to burn it all down?? That's the act of totalitarianism.

Historically this happens over and over again. Societies give power to corrupt megalomaniacs and psychopaths or those strong men seize power by other means. I'll never understand it. But we can see it happening here in the US right now. Whatever you think of Biden, he believes in our democratic institutions and governs that way. Trump absolutely does not hold those values and he makes no pretense about it. And his cult (what else can you call it!) follows along, yearning for fascism. And look at the truly awful sycophants that are drawn to be in Trump's inner circle. Ambitious people with no ethics or morality, only a naked lust for power.

If Trump gets elected, I really think that signals the end of our Republic's experiment in democracy. He has said as much in his plans for another term.

Maybe it's just mental laziness, fear and ignorance that draws people to a demagogue like Trump.

bighairymike: The president embodies the will of the people and is accountable to the electorate. When the permanent administrative state works to undermine the president, they are effectively usurping the will of the people. The administrative state is eager to embrace, expand and implement the policies of a democrat president in support of the will of the people but also serves to be a "necessary" check on the power of a Republican president whose election apparently is not the legitimate will of the people.

Sorry, what? What specific examples do you have, please? Which republican presidential policies has the administrative state thwarted and how?

Which republican presidential policies has the administrative state thwarted and how? - CO

---------------------

Crossfire Hurricane. How? lying to the FISA court.

Crossfire Hurricane. How? lying to the FISA court.

That Biden (and Obama before him) weaponized the government isn't remotely a debate. Don't forget the Twitter files and the government's continued work with social media companies to crack down on speech they don't like.

That some posters here are fans of that sort of thing tells you all you need to know about who the fascists really are.

bighairymike: Crossfire Hurricane. How? lying to the FISA court.

First, what's that got to do with "presidential policies"? Second, are you referring to former FBI attorney Kevin Clinesmith?

serves to be a "necessary" check on the power of a Republican president whose election apparently is not the legitimate will of the people.
The politicization of the DOJ is a prime example"
------------------------------------------------
Why do you believe I was talking about Trump? Fine go after him.

Because your post refers to "The administrative state", "a Republican president" and "The politicization of the DOJ is a prime example" in direct linear order.

Such accusations of politicization are not being made about Lincoln, Bush 1 or 2.



Charges of fraud, election crimes, sexual assault, tax crimes only seem like political persecution because, at this juncture, they are primarily being perpetrated by, and proven against Trump, his political supporters, right wing media and his extremist fans.

Dope1:


We already went over this in another thread (here: https://www.shrewdm.com/MB?pid=168360290). The White House simply asking Twitter or Facebook to review content that violates each organization's TOS or that it thinks spreads lies or propaganda is not working "with social media companies to crack down on speech they don't like". Clearly, the White House wrote: Please take whatever actions, if any, you deem appropriate.

And the "Twitter Files" demonstrated that, far from working to censor pro-Trump sentiment in the days before the Capitol riot, the company's leaders were intent on leaving it up ' despite internal warnings that trouble was brewing.

But the records reveal a company that fought until the end to give some of Trump's most belligerent supporters the benefit of the doubt, even as its internal teams faced an overwhelming volume of tweets threatening retribution in line with Trump's lies that the election had been stolen.

They also show that Twitter's leaders were reluctant to take action against Trump's account two days after the insurrection, even as lawyers inside the company argued that his continued praise of the Capitol rioters amounted to 'glorification of violence,' an offense punishable then by suspension under Twitter's rules.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/...

Sorry, I left out the Dope1 quote. Reposting.


Dope1: Don't forget the Twitter files and the government's continued work with social media companies to crack down on speech they don't like.

We already went over this in another thread (here: https://www.shrewdm.com/MB?pid=168360290). The White House simply asking Twitter or Facebook to review content that violates each organization's TOS or that it thinks spreads lies or propaganda is not working "with social media companies to crack down on speech they don't like". Clearly, the White House wrote: Please take whatever actions, if any, you deem appropriate.

And the "Twitter Files" demonstrated that, far from working to censor pro-Trump sentiment in the days before the Capitol riot, the company's leaders were intent on leaving it up -- despite internal warnings that trouble was brewing.

And Twitter made a calculated decision to allow the most belligerent and false content to remain.

But the records reveal a company that fought until the end to give some of Trump's most belligerent supporters the benefit of the doubt, even as its internal teams faced an overwhelming volume of tweets threatening retribution in line with Trump's lies that the election had been stolen.

They also show that Twitter's leaders were reluctant to take action against Trump's account two days after the insurrection, even as lawyers inside the company argued that his continued praise of the Capitol rioters amounted to 'glorification of violence,' an offense punishable then by suspension under Twitter's rules.

commonone: Biden is of average intelligence, about the same as Trump. But tell us, specifically, why he is a moron? And if you're going to rattle off a few examples of Biden misspeaking, name another politician who has not misspoken many, many times. And while you're at it, please provide a comprehensive list of Trump's accomplishments in office and why he deserves to return to the WH more than Biden.

Thanks.

Checking the web IQ scores of Trump and Biden are not conclusive with a left slant (of course) of what Trump's score is.
Biden's examples of misspeaking is an every day occurrence, each time he steps up in front of a mike. Constant tripping and falling, weird behavior with small children and babies, the list goes on and is pitiful to hear and see.

President Trump had a great many accomplishments, but then (and you know it) the pandemic happened undoing some of Trump's accomplishments. Biden benefit when the pandemic started to waned, people returning to work and so on.

Trump Administration Accomplishments

One Hundred And Twenty One Accomplishments By President Trump And His Cabinet.

Here you go. Easy to Google and double check. Checking for yourself is always best. This list is not all inclusive. There are more to add to this list every week.

Trump recently signed 3 bills to benefit Native people. One gives compensation to the Spokane tribe for loss of their lands in the mid-1900s, one funds Native language programs, and the third gives federal recognition to the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians in Montana.
Trump finalized the creation of Space Force as our 6th Military branch.
Trump signed a law to make cruelty to animals a federal felony so that animal abusers face tougher consequences.
Prior to the recent violent Antifa protests, violent crime has fallen every year he's been in office after rising during the 2 years before he was elected.
Trump signed a bill making CBD and Hemp legal.
Trump's EPA gave $100 million to fix the water infrastructure problem in Flint, Michigan.
Under Trump's leadership, in 2018 the U.S. surpassed Russia and Saudi Arabia to become the world's largest producer of crude oil.
Trump signed a law ending the gag orders on Pharmacists that prevented them from sharing money-saving information.
Trump signed the 'Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act' (FOSTA), which includes the 'Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act' (SESTA) which both give law enforcement and victims new tools to fight sex trafficking.
Trump signed a bill to require airports to provide spaces for breastfeeding Moms.
The 25% lowest-paid Americans enjoyed a 4.5% income boost in November 2019, which outpaces a 2.9% gain in earnings for the country's highest-paid workers.
Low-wage workers are benefiting from higher minimum wages and from corporations that are increasing entry-level pay.
Trump signed the biggest wilderness protection & conservation bill in a decade and designated 375,000 acres as protected land.
Trump signed the Save our Seas Act which funds $10 million per year to clean tons of plastic & garbage from the ocean.
He signed a bill this year allowing some drug imports from Canada so that prescription prices would go down.
Trump signed an executive order this year that forces all healthcare providers to disclose the cost of their services so that Americans can comparison shop and know how much less providers charge insurance companies. When signing that bill, he said no American should be blindsided by bills for medical services they never agreed to in advance.
Hospitals will now be required to post their standard charges for services, which include the discounted price a hospital is willing to accept.
In the eight years prior to President Trump's inauguration, prescription drug prices increased by an average of 3.6% per year. Under Trump, drug prices have seen year-over-year declines in nine of the last ten months, with a 1.1% drop as of the most recent month.
He created a White House VA Hotline to help veterans and principally staffed it with veterans and direct family members of veterans. VA employees are being held accountable for poor performance, with more than 4,000 VA employees removed, demoted, and suspended so far.
Issued an executive order requiring the Secretaries of Defense, Homeland Security, and Veterans Affairs to submit a joint plan to provide veterans access to access to mental health treatment as they transition to civilian life.
Because of a bill signed and championed by Trump, In 2020, most federal employees will see their pay increase by an average of 3.1% ' the largest raise in more than 10 years.
Trump signed into a law up to 12 weeks of paid parental leave for millions of federal workers.
Trump administration will provide HIV prevention drugs for free to 200,000 uninsured patients per year for 11 years.
All-time record sales during the 2019 holidays.
Trump signed an order allowing small businesses to group together when buying insurance to get a better price.
President Trump signed the Preventing Maternal Deaths Act that provides funding for states to develop maternal mortality reviews to better understand maternal complications and identify solutions & largely focuses on reducing the higher mortality rates for Black Americans.
In 2018, President Trump signed the groundbreaking First Step Act, a criminal justice bill which enacted reforms that make our justice system fairer and help former inmates successfully return to society.
The First Step Act's reforms addressed inequities in sentencing laws that disproportionately harmed Black Americans and reformed mandatory minimums that created unfair outcomes.
The First Step Act expanded judicial discretion in sentencing of non-violent crimes.
Over 90% of those benefitting from the retroactive sentencing reductions in the First Step Act are Black Americans.
The First Step Act provides rehabilitative programs to inmates, helping them successfully rejoin society and not return to crime.
Trump increased funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) by more than 14%.
Trump signed legislation forgiving Hurricane Katrina debt that threatened HBCUs.
New single-family home sales are up 31.6% in October 2019 compared to just one year ago.
Made HBCUs a priority by creating the position of executive director of the White House Initiative on HBCUs.
Trump received the Bipartisan Justice Award at a historically black college for his criminal justice reform accomplishments.
The poverty rate fell to a 17-year low of 11.8% under the Trump administration as a result of a jobs-rich environment.
Poverty rates for African Americans and Hispanic-Americans have reached their lowest levels since the U.S. began collecting such data.
President Trump signed a bill that creates five national monuments, expands several national parks, adds 1.3 million acres of wilderness, and permanently reauthorizes the Land and Water Conservation Fund.
Trump's USDA committed $124 Million to rebuild rural water infrastructure.
Consumer confidence & small business confidence is at an all-time high.
Prior to the COVID shut down more than 7 million jobs created since election.
More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.
More than 400,000 manufacturing jobs created since his election.
Trump appointed 5 openly gay ambassadors.
Trump ordered Ric Grenell, his openly gay ambassador to Germany, to lead a global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality across the globe.
Through Trump's Anti-Trafficking Coordination Team (ACTeam) initiative, Federal law enforcement more than doubled convictions of human traffickers and increased the number of defendants charged by 75% in ACTeam districts.
In 2018, the Department of Justice (DOJ) dismantled an organization that was the internet's leading source of prostitution-related advertisements resulting in sex trafficking.
Trump's OMB published new anti-trafficking guidance for government procurement officials to combat human trafficking more effectively.
Trump's Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Homeland Security Investigations arrested 1,588 criminals associated with Human Trafficking.
Trump's Department of Health and Human Services provided funding to support the National Human Trafficking Hotline to identify perpetrators and give victims the help they need.
The hotline identified 16,862 potential human trafficking cases.
Trump's DOJ provided grants to organizations that support human trafficking victims ' serving nearly 9,000 cases from July 1, 2017, to June 30, 2018.
The Department of Homeland Security has hired more victim assistance specialists, helping victims get resources and support.
President Trump has called on Congress to pass school choice legislation so that no child is trapped in a failing school because of his or her zip code.
The President signed funding legislation in September 2018 that increased funding for school choice by $42 million.
The tax cuts signed into law by President Trump promote school choice by allowing families to use 529 college savings plans for elementary and secondary education.
Under his leadership ISIS has lost most of their territory and been largely dismantled.
ISIS leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi was killed.
Signed the first Perkins CTE reauthorization since 2006, authorizing more than $1 billion for states each year to fund vocational and career education programs.
Executive order expanding apprenticeship opportunities for students and workers.
Trump issued an Executive Order prohibiting the U.S. government from discriminating against Christians or punishing expressions of faith.
Signed an executive order that allows the government to withhold money from college campuses deemed to be anti-Semitic and who fail to combat anti-Semitism.
President Trump ordered a halt to U.S. tax money going to international organizations that fund or perform abortions.
Trump imposed sanctions on the socialists in Venezuela who have killed their citizens.
Finalized new trade agreement with South Korea.
Made a deal with the European Union to increase U.S. energy exports to Europe.
Withdrew the U.S. from the job killing TPP deal.
Secured $250 billion in new trade and investment deals in China and $12 billion in Vietnam.
Approved up to $12 billion in aid for farmers affected by unfair trade retaliation.
Has had over a dozen US hostages freed, including those Obama could not get freed.
Trump signed the Music Modernization Act, the biggest change to copyright law in decades.
Trump secured Billions that will fund the building of a wall at our southern border.
The Trump Administration is promoting second chance hiring to give former inmates the opportunity to live crime-free lives and find meaningful employment.
Trump's DOJ and the Board Of Prisons launched a new 'Ready to Work Initiative' to help connect employers directly with former prisoners.
President Trump's historic tax cut legislation included new Opportunity Zone Incentives to promote investment in low-income communities across the country.
8,764 communities across the country have been designated as Opportunity Zones.
Opportunity Zones are expected to spur $100 billion in long-term private capital investment in economically distressed communities across the country.
Trump directed the Education Secretary to end Common Core.
Trump signed the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund into law.
Trump signed measure funding prevention programs for Veteran suicide.
Companies have brought back over a TRILLION dollars from overseas because of the TCJA bill that Trump signed.
Manufacturing jobs are growing at the fastest rate in more than 30 years.
Stock Market has reached record highs.
Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.
African American unemployment is at an all-time low.
Hispanic-American unemployment is at an all-time low.
Asian-American unemployment is at an all-time low.
Women's unemployment rate is at a 65-year low.
Youth unemployment is at a 50-year low.
Prior to the COVID shutdown we have the lowest unemployment rate ever recorded.
The Pledge to America's Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans.
95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future' the highest ever.
As a result of the Republican tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.
Record number of regulations eliminated that hurt small businesses.
Signed welfare reform requiring able-bodied adults who don't have children to work or look for work if they're on welfare.
Under Trump, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history.
Reformed Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs'saving seniors 100's of millions of $$$ this year alone.
Signed Right-To-Try legislation allowing terminally ill patients to try experimental treatment that wasn't allowed before.
Secured $6 billion in new funding to fight the opioid epidemic.
Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.
S. oil production recently reached all-time high so we are less dependent on oil from the Middle East.
The U.S. is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.
NATO allies increased their defense spending because of his pressure campaign.
Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord in 2017 and that same year the U.S. still led the world by having the largest reduction in Carbon emissions.
Has his circuit court judge nominees being confirmed faster than any other new administration.
Had his Supreme Court Justice's Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh confirmed.
Moved U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
Agreed to a new trade deal with Mexico & Canada that will increase jobs here and $$$ coming in.
Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.
Imposed tariffs on China in response to China's forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices, has agreed to a Part One trade deal with China.
Signed legislation to improve the National Suicide Hotline.
Signed the most comprehensive childhood cancer legislation ever into law, which will advance childhood cancer research and improve treatments.
The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act signed into law by Trump doubled the maximum amount of the child tax credit available to parents and lifted the income limits so more people could claim it.
It also created a new tax credit for other dependents.
In 2018, President Trump signed into law a $2.4 billion funding increase for the Child Care and Development Fund, providing a total of $8.1 billion to States to fund childcare for low-income families.
The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit (CDCTC) signed into law by Trump provides a tax credit equal to 20-35% of child care expenses, $3,000 per child & $6,000 per family + Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs) allow you to set aside up to $5,000 in pre-tax $ to use for child care.
In 2019 President Donald Trump signed the Autism Collaboration, Accountability, Research, Education and Support Act (CARES) into law which allocates $1.8 billion in funding over the next five years to help people with autism spectrum disorder and to help their families.
In 2019 President Trump signed into law two funding packages providing nearly $19 million in new funding for Lupus specific research and education programs, as well an additional $41.7 billion in funding for the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the most Lupus funding EVER.
Another upcoming accomplishment to add: Trump signed the first major anti-robocall law in decades called the TRACED Act (Telephone Robocall Abuse Criminal Enforcement and Deterrence.) TRACED Act will extend the period of time the FCC has to catch & punish those who intentionally break telemarketing restrictions. The bill also requires voice service providers to develop a framework to verify calls are legitimate before they reach your phone.
US stock market continually hits record highs.

*Trump did all of this while fighting flagrant abuse and impeachment charges and a 97% negativity reporting by major media.

We already went over this in another thread (

You mean you tried to spin it in another thread. You're literally the only person I've run across that is trying to explain this away.

LurkerMom: President Trump had a great many accomplishments, but then...

Every president has a "but then" moment in his administration. To say that Trump had a great many accomplishments "but then" he mismanaged the pandemic is not exactly a ringing endorsement of his accomplishments.


LurkerMom: Here you go. Easy to Google and double check. Checking for yourself is always best. This list is not all inclusive. There are more to add to this list every week.

Trump recently signed 3 bills to benefit Native people. One gives compensation to the Spokane tribe for loss of their lands in the mid-1900s, one funds Native language programs, and the third gives federal recognition to the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians in Montana.

Well, a quick look through your list tells me that Trump had zero interest or active engagement in supporting many of those legislative measures. He simply signed a bill when it hit his desk.

Like the first on your list, the Native tribes legislation. The Trump White House fought against direct federal relief stimulus to stem job losses and economic instability caused by the coronavirus pandemic for Native tribes.

When the Senate and White House began talks on the stimulus, Democrats pushed for creating a $200 billion stabilization fund to provide direct aid to local and state governments. Of that $200 billion, $20 billion should go to tribal governments, they proposed.

The White House said no to both ― the fund itself, and tribes getting any direct relief.

When Democrats held their ground, the White House relented and agreed to create the stabilization fund, but only if it was capped at $150 billion and didn't give money to tribes.

Trump fought against one penny going to Native tribes.

Democrats fought for funding for Native tribes and after much back and forth secured a total of $10 billion for tribal governments.


And need I remind you that Trump fought changing the name of Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples' Day?

Or that Trump repeatedly used the Pocahontas slur?

Or that the Trump administration slowed down the processing of applications to put 'fee' land bought on the open market into trust, a process with important implications for tribes' ability to, among other things, provide housing and use natural resources.

Or that in 2018, the Trump administration moved to subject people who receive health care through the IHS to a work requirement, arguing that tribes are a race rather than separate governments.

In short, Trump signed the legislation and took credit for its passage but has actually been quite hostile to Native tribes.

I'll poke through the rest of your list but a lot of it seems to be legislation Trump had little or no interest in seeing pass or was actually against but declined to veto. This might be more impactful if you cut out the items that are now false (like "Has his circuit court judge nominees being confirmed faster than any other new administration" -- Biden has surpassed him) or relatively meaningless or downright silly(95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future' the highest ever -- that didn't last long for him).


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tribes-stimulus-cor...

Too many are eager to throw away our democracy. - ges

------------------

Or restore it, depending on your perspective.BHM

I think it's tribal and identity. What is difficult to grasp is that Trump is so tied up in the person's identity that they can ignore all else. Does Trump have any redeeming qualities that I can see? No. If he had minor redeeming qualities they would be indistinguishable from a facade show for his base, so he gets no credit What is weird is how he can get Latinos, Cubans in Miami, etc., to vote for him. I'd have to ask Albaby who is down in Miami. I'm sure there's some good analysis of that, but I haven't seen it yet.

The White House simply asking Twitter or Facebook to review content that violates each organization's TOS

------------------

Kinda like the neighborhood mafia lieutenant stopping by the mom and pop store just to say you sure have nice business here, pity if anything should happen to it.

Dope1: You mean you tried to spin it in another thread.

Spin? I literally quoted the White House email that the House Committee flagged of the government asking Twitter to review tweets that appear to violate its own TOS and take any action Twitter deems necessary, including no action at all, as censorship.

bighairymike: Kinda like the neighborhood mafia lieutenant stopping by the mom and pop store just to say you sure have nice business here, pity if anything should happen to it.

Umm, no, that's not the same at all.

Perhaps you meant Trump asking Twitter to ban the accounts of the New York Times and Washington Post?

The White House simply asking Twitter or Facebook to review content that violates each organization's TOS

------------------

Kinda like the neighborhood mafia lieutenant stopping by the mom and pop store just to say you sure have nice business here, pity if anything should happen to it.BHM

Not at all like that and easily distinguishable. Every organization I've ever been in has reminders and training requirements, etc. Look at the posters inside gas station repair shops - that's a smidgen. It became a test of will to stay awake during the Geneva Convention lectures at 6:30am in the morning during basic training. Let something happen in an org and your boss will get the word, convene a meeting, and you'll get a refresher.

The disinformation blizzard during the pandemic was no different. Asking organizations if you can help them police themselves along their own guidelines in no way approaches veiled extortion threats. We will find out if Trump asking you to find votes does qualify as extortion, and if saying you are electors when you aren't is corrupt and fraudulent. How about the lean Trump did on Mike Pence? - looks corrupt to me.

So the right has to distort the facts to come up with a corrupt purpose for normal behavior and transactions, investigations that go nowhere but supply the innuendo factory, whistleblower sources that whistle after they are charged and go on the lam, and the Secret Service deletes emails? There's too much going on right now, it's too hard to keep track of it, don't know how commoneone and Albaby do it.

Spin? I literally quoted the White House email that the House Committee flagged of the government asking Twitter to review tweets that appear to violate its own TOS and take any action Twitter deems necessary, including no action at all, as censorship.

LOL! Were there any other emails? Say, from other agencies?

https://nypost.com/2022/12/18/latest-twitter-files...

(Your opinion of the Post isn't relevant. All the screengrabs are there)

Stop trying to excuse the inexcusable.

The disinformation blizzard during the pandemic was no different.

---------------

Much of the official approved information (eg vaccinations prevent infection, cloth masks keep you safe, school children must be kept home, small businesses must be closed, small family gatherings are forbidden) turned out to be false.

The last thing I want is a Ministry of Truth controlling what information I am allowed to hear.

The last thing I want is a Ministry of Truth controlling what information I am allowed to hear.

It's just this simple. The cure for falsehoods is truth and lots of it - as in, more speech.

Not less.

People who support the censorship need to check themselves.

<<Stop trying to excuse the inexcusable.-Dope>>

Do you ever stop and listen to yourself?

Donald Trump is literally a rapist...

*elevator music*

<<The last thing I want is a Ministry of Truth controlling what information I am allowed to hear. BHM>>

Here are words of advice that are genuinely meant to be helpful, You really need to get better sources of information.
The ones you are using make you look dumb and make the world a worse place.

exempli gratia...

Evolution isn't true: there is an invisible man with magical powers who lives in the sky and he made everything in 6 days, and he needs money.
The earth is 6,000 years old.
Climate change is a hoax.
You are safer if you have a gun in your house.
Everything should be privatized.
Women should not be allowed to control their own bodies or lives.
Trump Built a beautiful wall and Mexico paid for it.
The 2020 election was stolen.
Trump isn't a rapist.
Trump isn't a racist.
Fox is real news.
Trump didn't add $8 billion to the national debt in four years.
Republicans actually know what the word "woke" means.
1.2 million Americans did not die from covid.
And on and on...

Run along now and make your monthly NRA donation, the $$ will be used to protect your freedom!
And make your 10% tithe to the church, because god is all-powerful, but he's terrible with money!
And don't forget to pay your cable news bill, Rupert Murdochs yacht doesn't run on fear alone!

The cure for falsehoods is truth and lots of it - as in, more speech.

If that was true, Trump wouldn't be the de facto leader of the Republican party. Trumpworld seems to be impervious to truth.

Trump didn't add $8 billion to the national debt in four years.

I think you meant $8 trillion.

Trump didn't add $8 billion to the national debt in four years.

Trump added almost $8 trillionto the national debt in four years.

<<I think you meant $8 trillion.>>

Yes, $8 Trillion is correct thanks!

"The amount he's added to the national debt is indecent." ~Mike Pompeo
"I hate him (Trump) passionately!" ~Tucker Carlson
"He's a &@#$ing moron!" ~Rex Tillerson

The last thing I want is a Ministry of Truth controlling what information I am allowed to hear.

Mike, you can find anything you want nowadays, ya know. When I was a kid, there were still news stands. Under the counter, tucked away, was the hardcore porno and some of the more subversive papers, while the quackery was always right as you rung up your groceries. But you didn't find the tabloids on prime time news, you had to stay up till 2am, just before sign off they let the crack pots on. You could see Lyndon Larouche types touting some economic conspiracy in the dullest way possible. Controlling? There's much less control now. I mean just because you like a conspiracy theory doesn't mean it HAS to be on prime time everywhere does it? You did have FOX, but it looks like they have to pay the piper for following Trump down that hole.

My little assembly on twitter got blown up, it looks like twitter isn't as useful as it used to be and won't recover. But y'all have discord and truth social. That Covid disinfo hurt, lotsa people down south died that didn't need to. That one variant that killed kids disturbed me, but it went away. Oklahoma had to send patients to Texas.

There's a veritable disinformation smorgasbord out there if you want to dine. Have at it.

<Trump presently is polling ahead of Biden on fivethirtyeight. Which I find shocking.>

<<Shocking indeed. Says something about the sad state of the electorate. Too many are eager to throw away our democracy.>>

Bonhoeffer's Theory of Stupidity in action!

Biden is of average intelligence, about the same as Trump.

I don't think so. Trump has to be below average. He's not Forrest Gump, but after all that expensive education his dad bought, you would expect more from a person of average intelligence. Unless "average" is a lot lower than I expect.

I agree Biden is probably just a bit above average, but not much. I worked with a lot of above-average people, and neither were of their caliber.

Much of the official approved information (eg vaccinations prevent infection, cloth masks keep you safe, school children must be kept home, small businesses must be closed, small family gatherings are forbidden) turned out to be false.

The last thing I want is a Ministry of Truth controlling what information I am allowed to hear.


"Turned out to be false" based on continued experience and data gathering. This had ZERO to do with a "Ministry of Truth" controlling what information you're allowed to hear. This was a new virus.....not a variant of a familiar virus, but something completely new, spreading like wildfire, and all too often with devastating consequences. It was overwhelming healthcare facilities and staff. So the earlier guides and restrictions put in place reflected what little knowledge had been established plus best guesses and trying to be as preventive as possible to prevent deaths, hospitalizations, etc. It took time to gather and analyze the laboratory and clinical data that enabled unavoidable erroneous conclusions to be replaced with facts.

The only control-of-information attempts that did take place were earlier on, under Trump, with his efforts to control communications from the CDC, from his task force, and HHS to diminish the perceived degree of threat and protect his image. (This has all been documented.) Yes, he did push hard for vaccine development. But that doesn't diminish the enormous impact of his interference.

But that doesn't diminish the enormous impact of his interference. - shelia

=============================

But that doesn't diminish the enormous impact of unnecessary panic driven school closures had on our children.

But that doesn't diminish the enormous impact of unnecessary panic driven closure of hundreds of thousands of mom and pop stores.

Government information, no matter how sincere, is not guaranteed to be accurate. A healthy dose of skepticism should be included in the public discourse instead of suppressed by government collusion with big tech.

But that doesn't diminish the enormous impact of his interference. - shelia
(correction: sheila)

=============================

But that doesn't diminish the enormous impact of unnecessary panic driven school closures had on our children.

But that doesn't diminish the enormous impact of unnecessary panic driven closure of hundreds of thousands of mom and pop stores.

Government information, no matter how sincere, is not guaranteed to be accurate. A healthy dose of skepticism should be included in the public discourse instead of suppressed by government collusion with big tech.

The number of deaths that occurred because of his interference far outweighs the negative impacts of school closings. And what about all of the covid cases that were prevented, and saved lives of susceptible family members?

No one clamped down on a healthy dose of septicism. That helps to formulate the questions that have to be answered. But insisting that government colluded with big tech to suppress needed facts concerning covid......what ugly fairy tale are you reading as reality?

what ugly fairy tale are you reading as reality? - sheila

----------------------

Besides embedding FBI agents at Facebook's HQ building, Facebook even wrote a portal so the Biden Admin could make "censorship suggestions" even easier and more widely available. Easy Peasy. No need to even pick up the phone or meet with anyone.

Besides embedding FBI agents at Facebook's HQ building, Facebook even wrote a portal so the Biden Admin could make "censorship suggestions" even easier and more widely available.

First of all, stick to the topic.....which concerned the honest evolution of covid-based knowledge and policies and Trump's attempts to pervert much of that in support of his re-election goals.

What is/isn't going on with FB now, and whether the goal is to prevent covid mis-information and dis-information from hurting people or it's censoring free speech, has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. So please keep your topics straight.

>>Besides embedding FBI agents at Facebook's HQ building, Facebook even wrote a portal so the Biden Admin could make "censorship suggestions" even easier and more widely available.<<

First of all, stick to the topic.....which concerned the honest evolution of covid-based knowledge and policies and Trump's attempts to pervert much of that in support of his re-election goals.

What is/isn't going on with FB now, and whether the goal is to prevent covid mis-information and dis-information from hurting people or it's censoring free speech, has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. So please keep your topics straight. - sheila
==================

You opened that door when you posted this.

But insisting that government colluded with big tech to suppress needed facts concerning covid......what ugly fairy tale are you reading as reality?

See that question mark at the end. You asked a question and I just answered it.

bighairymike: Facebook even wrote a portal...

You know that started in 2018 under then-DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, right?

I guess Biden has a time machine and transported back to 2018.

You know that started in 2018 under then-DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, right?

I guess Biden has a time machine and transported back to 2018. - CO

----------------

No I didn't so thanks.


Regardless, collusion with big tech to censor speech that the government is prohibited from doing directly is abhorrent, regardless of which party is doing it.

But insisting that government colluded with big tech to suppress needed facts concerning covid......what ugly fairy tale are you reading as reality?

See that question mark at the end. You asked a question and I just answered it.


I see. First of all, this isn't colluding "with big tech" but forming an arrangement with one company within once facet of the broad spectrum comprising "big tech." So exaggeration beyond words.

Second of all.....it's your personal and angrily distorted view that this mis/dis-information is in reality "needed facts." On the Discord board you and your confreres were virulently and mindlessly in support of the most incredible lies, and nastily insulting to anyone bringing real facts into the arguments. I left because it (and the other boards I had joined) wasn't discussions, but insistent dominance with lies-as-truth and insult after insult.

Was this special portal on Facebook the best way to try to protect gullible individuals from being fed harmful covid lies? I don't know. But the motivation was certainly untarnished.

bighairymike: Regardless, collusion with big tech to censor speech that the government is prohibited from doing directly is abhorrent, regardless of which party is doing it.

Look, you're a bright guy but even you thought this was all a Biden administration policy. What about the folks who aren't so bright?

I mean, why, exactly, should someone on Facebook or Twitter with a broad audience be able to post lies or disinformation that endanger lives?

Simple example: I have a relative who wore nicotine patches for two weeks because she was convinced (by social media accounts online) that individuals vaccinated by the mRNA vaccine shed the vaccine (not the virus, the vaccine) in public and will contaminate her. Somehow, the nicotine destroys the shed vaccine.

And why shouldn't Facebook or Twitter, private companies, be able to determine whether messages violate their terms of service? Both Twitter and Facebook have declined governmental suggestions by both the Trump and Biden administrations.

Do you honestly believe Russian disinformation about the invasion of Ukraine should be given free rein? Or Iranian disinformation designed to influence the 2024 presidential election should be left for voters to decide what's true and what's false.

Isn't that what one of the supreme court justices suggested: let Americans have the information and let them decide what's true and what's false?

That seemed odd to me. You don't decide what's true and what's false. Either something is true or it's false. If you decide the earth is flat, that doesn't make the fact that the earth is round, false.

Look, you're a bright guy but even you thought this was all a Biden administration policy. What about the folks who aren't so bright? - CO

Each will decide for thmsleves using whatever information sources they deem credible.


I mean, why, exactly, should someone on Facebook or Twitter with a broad audience be able to post lies or disinformation that endanger lives? - more CO

Because to do otherwise requires a ministry of truth. And "endangering lives" is getting a little road weary, it is a way to gather authority when people are not in fact dropping like flies.


Simple example: I have a relative who wore nicotine patches for two weeks because she was convinced (by social media accounts online) that individuals vaccinated by the mRNA vaccine shed the vaccine (not the virus, the vaccine) in public and will contaminate her. Somehow, the nicotine destroys the shed vaccine. - more CO

Her life, her decision. I too have friends who vote democrat despite my overwhelming logic that should lead them to behave differently. Perhaps democrat messaging should be suppressed.


And why shouldn't Facebook or Twitter, private companies, be able to determine whether messages violate their terms of service? Both Twitter and Facebook have declined governmental suggestions by both the Trump and Biden administrations. - more CO

Fine as long the government is not in there, behind the scenes influencing suppression. Whatever position the government has, let them post it just like any other poster and then the public can decide for themselves.


Do you honestly believe Russian disinformation about the invasion of Ukraine should be given free rein? Or Iranian disinformation designed to influence the 2024 presidential election should be left for voters to decide what's true and what's false. - more CO

Damn straight! Who better than the voters. Certainly not some progressive who somehow "Knows" that most voters are too simple-minded and gullible to figure things out for themselves. Why not work just as hard exposing why the Russian disinformation is false rather than putting all your energy into preventing the gullible from hearing it in the first place.


Isn't that what one of the supreme court justices suggested: let Americans have the information and let them decide what's true and what's false? - more CO

Yes, and rightly so.


If you decide the earth is flat, that doesn't make the fact that the earth is round, false. - more CO

If you decide the vaccines will prevent you from getting covid because the government said it would, that doesn't make the fact that the vaccine will not prevent infection, false.

Because to do otherwise requires a ministry of truth.

Getting the cult to denigrate truth is a step toward fascism.

BHM is there.

Post New

US Policy FAQ

---

Contact Shrewd'm
Contact the developer of these message boards.