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Something that isn't politics! Just atheists (and non-atheists, too, if they visit this board) chatting!

I found one of my favorite movies on YouTube recently. Yeah, I got the premium YouTube thing. No ads in my videos, and some movies.

What are some of your favorite movies? It's hard for me to pick just one. Depends on the genre. I love me some good action and mystery, like The Bourne Identity. But I also love good comedies, sci-fi, and more.

In this instance, the movie I was referring to was Yesterday. IMO, one of the freshest, most novel, ways to tell a love story. You don't have to be a Beatles fan to enjoy this one (though it helps). It's mostly a love story where the love is right in front of him but he doesn't see it until the end. But the vehicle in which they deliver it is unique (to my knowledge), and has me pondering all sorts of other questions like if someone were writing some classic Beatles songs today, would be they popular? It's not relevant to the love story, but is a story in itself. I also love little jokes like "yeah, about the 'White Album'...that presents some diversity issues". :-)

I really like movies that show me something I've never seen before, or at least a "classic" story in a way I've never seen it presented. So many are just rehashes of the same story with only minor new elements (or flat-out 'reboots' of familiar stories, which are seldom as good as the original).

Anyone have a few favorites to share? Or wanna discuss a world without the Beatles' music?

In this instance, the movie I was referring to was Yesterday.

I so enjoyed this movie, I was surprised it wasn’t a bigger hit. I have it on my Tivo and break it out every once in a while. There are two scenes that I will sometimes just jump to: the sequence of the lights going off, the bus, and the lights coming back on, followed by his (rapid) journey of discovery. Very well played.

The other sequence is where Kate McKinnon explains to him how it works: “You come to LA, make music, make a lot of money, and then we take most of it, snort”. That’s not word for word, maybe, but it’s pretty close. The way she says it you *totally believe it” and you know it’s true, and you known that any young musician doesn’t care either. So on point!

OK, I like musicals, not everybody’s cup of tea, I know. “Hairspray”, the story of racism in the 50’s, is packed with great songs and biting sarcasm. The scene with the pregnant mothers smoking and drinking, while kids drive down the street sitting on the back of an open top car is hilarious.

“The Greatest Showman” is another. Full of wonderful music, a love story with “inclusion” at the core. This is where I met Zendaya. She was already famous, I guess, but it’s a demonstration of how the screen loves some people over and above traditional beauty.n I am the world’s worst dancer (or was before m spinal surgeries took me out entirely) but I would have given 10 years of my life to be able to dance 10% as well as Hugh Jackman or Zac Efron.

“La La Land”, of course. I’m a sucker for a romcom that’s also a musical.

Most of the successful Pixar movies have been great: “Inside Out”, “Ratatouille”, Toy Story’s #1-#4, and more. They have a great batting average.

Any Iron Man, any Jason Bourne, early Spiderman.

RomComs rule: “Serendipity”, “Love At First Sight” with Haley Lu Richardson, any Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan, treacle or not, I’ll watch. Lots more in this genre, too many to list, really.

One odd one that’s a sendup of gaming and gamers, “Free Guy” with Ryan Reynolds. A sardonic take on the industry.

Well, I could go on (and maybe should) with the lesser known, more quirky list, but that would require “remembering” and I’m not feeling like doing heavy lifting this morning. Maybe later?

We enjoyed Yesterday. Will watch again. Have you seen the new documentary about McCartney?

Some movies I like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_(2013_film)
Rush is a 2013 biographical sports film directed by Ron Howard and written by Peter Morgan. It is centred on the rivalry between two Formula One drivers, James Hunt and Niki Lauda, during the 1976 Formula One season. The film stars Chris Hemsworth as Hunt and Daniel Brühl as Lauda.

I grew up watching Hunt and Lauda, and pretending to be them on my slot car racing track.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_and_Commander...
Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World is a 2003 American epic period war-drama film co-written, produced and directed by Peter Weir, set during the Napoleonic Wars. The film's plot and characters are loosely adapted from novels in author Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey–Maturin series, which includes 20 completed novels of Jack Aubrey's naval career. The film stars Russell Crowe as Aubrey, captain in the Royal Navy, and Paul Bettany as Dr. Stephen Maturin, the ship's surgeon.

I love the Patrick O'Brian Aubrey–Maturin series. I've been through it I don't know how many times. The film is not quite, but it's pretty good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_(2017_film)
Dunkirk is a 2017 historical war film produced, written, and directed by Christopher Nolan that depicts the Dunkirk evacuation of World War II from the perspectives of people on the land, sea, and air.

Love the Spitfire scenes.

Others: the Harry Potter ones are all good. Many older Disney movies that my kids watched over and over (especially Hercules, Emperor's New Groove), The Matrix (first one only), The Martian.

I'm really excited to see Hail Mary next week. We have tickets to an early showing. Loved the book.

I so enjoyed this movie, I was surprised it wasn’t a bigger hit.

I remember seeing the trailers and thinking it would have problems. Rom-coms haven't done well at the box office for quite a while for a lot of cultural and sociological reasons (we've run out of reasons to keep the couple separate in the first act so they can struggle to get together by the third act). High-concept rom-com is an even harder sell. Though the high-concept can solve some of the structural rom-com problems, the central hook here ("what if the Beatles never existed?") doesn't do that - the "what if" premise doesn't actually keep them apart.

I watched a bit of it, but couldn't get out of my own head about how ridiculous the underlying premise was, so I didn't enjoy it at all and stopped watching shortly after the Ed Sheeran parts. My fault entirely, of course. I couldn't get past how it didn't make sense that anyone in a modern musical culture where the Beatles didn't exist in the sixties would want to hear "new to them" Beatles songs fifty years later, and that the film had no interest in interrogating that. A "new" Beatles song introduced into the world of 2020 wouldn't be applauded - it would sound dated, out-of-touch and derivative. The Beatles were the Beatles because they were revolutionary and visionary and groundbreaking and a cultural phenomenon rooted in the time of their creative output, and they changed music. Most "alt-history" high-concept stuff tries to play with the idea that the change that created the "alt" part has actual repercussions in the world, but Yesterday is entirely premised on the idea that the "alt" event absolutely does not.

Rom-coms haven't done well at the box office for quite a while for a lot of cultural and sociological reasons (we've run out of reasons to keep the couple separate in the first act so they can struggle to get together by the third act).

At the same time, there are some that have done very, very well in the past decade. The aforementioned La La Land was one. The standout for me was how popular Crazy Rich Asians became. It was both quite cute and a very "feel good" type movie with a typical rom-com happy ending.

Pete

At the same time, there are some that have done very, very well in the past decade. The aforementioned La La Land was one. The standout for me was how popular Crazy Rich Asians became. It was both quite cute and a very "feel good" type movie with a typical rom-com happy ending.

Yes - but Crazy Rich Asians was able to avoid the big problem with modern rom-coms, because it was set in another cultural milieu. So it avoided the major problem with modern rom-coms:

No, there’s more at work here than the vagaries of stars or studios. It’s not just them; it’s us.

Among the most fundamental obligations of romantic comedy is that there must be an obstacle to nuptial bliss for the budding couple to overcome. And, put simply, such obstacles are getting harder and harder to come by. They used to lie thick on the ground: parental disapproval, difference in social class, a promise made to another. But society has spent decades busily uprooting any impediment to the marriage of true minds. Love is increasingly presumed—perhaps in Hollywood most of all—to transcend class, profession, faith, age, race, gender, and (on occasion) marital status.

https://archive.ph/7CiQw#selection-1951.0-1955.581

Set the rom-com in another time period or a different culture, where those obstacles are still very much in play, and the story engine can hum along beautifully. That's Crazy Rich Asians - the difference in social class drives the story conflict. High-concept rom-coms can also do a great job of getting around this, because the "what if" premise itself can create an obstacle. And, of course, there's still a number of ways to create some obstacle to their relationship ("There's a misunderstanding!" "He's uptight while she's a free spirit!" "She's a big city corporate lawyer while he's the small town owner of a Christmas shop!") But generally, many of the plausible reasons why your two impossibly attractive leads don't just get on with their relationship in the first act have disappeared.

I won't try to convince you to like "Yesterday". But I will point out that, at least indirectly, a musician that knew about the Beatles in a world where they didn't exist was -imo- a plausible obstacle. He was just about to give up on a music career, and then he had a resource that allowed him not to quit. Ellie wasn't going to go along for the ride. She was going to remain a maths teacher in a smallish town. That is an obstacle if he's going to jet around the world performing.

It's difficult to parse out the differences in modern music that resulted from the Beatles. I think they relied more on some of the quality songs. "Yesterday" is just a beautiful song, no matter when it appears. Some of the older songs probably wouldn't play well today ("I want to hold your hand"). "Back in the USSR" would certainly be anachronistic, as was pointed out in the movie. "The Long and winding road" is another gorgeous song, no matter when it appears. "Something" had to be one of the most passionate love songs ever written. I could imagine that singer who does the old-style singing (Bubley??) doing well with that if Harrison hadn't recorded it 50 years ago.

I think some of their more innovative songs would play well if no one has ever heard them before. I'm often surprised that 1poorkid and her friends know as much Beatles music as they do. None of them were born when John Lennon was alive.

Also, the world didn't know about Coca-Cola, Harry Potter, and another musical group I hadn't heard of (Oasis?). It was almost like a sci-fi parallel universe thing where things are almost the same, but not quite.

No, I haven't seen the McCartney documentary. I should put that on my list. I did see the "Get Back" documentary.

I do like docudramas like Private Ryan or Dunkirk or Band of Brothers. Those aren't classic stories that I've seen a hundred times.

As I said before, I like seeing something different, or at least delivered in a different way. I've seen lots of movies in my 60+ years. There has to be something different or compelling (to me) to hold my attention.

Harry Potter is a good example of that. Classic good vs evil, but in a very different world that was rich in textures. Matrix is another.

This is my subject. One of my all time favorite movies is, The Night of the Hunter, with Lilian Gish, Shelley Winters and Robert Mitchum, directed, by Charles Laughton. If you haven't seen it, or heard of it, this is the perfect movie for this board.

As a related subject, since the above movie kind of deals with a preacher character, I feel like I belong to a slightly different group than the "Atheist Shrewds," more like, the Non-Abrahamic, or probably the "not any human-organized worship of anything" board. But that doesn't mean I don't believe in powers greater than myself or that some things are worth reverence and awe. As someone once said to me, if you don't believe in a power greater than yourself, jump up in the air and stay there.

That's what I believe in: Reality -- Fun stuff, like quantum mechanics, Warren and Charlie, and the world with the Beatles, Wilson Picket and Jimmy Cliff. Special thanks to the powers that be! Glory be to Reality! :)

But that doesn't mean I don't believe in powers greater than myself or that some things are worth reverence and awe.

There are many things worth reverence and awe. The Grand Canyon. Mozart. Kindness. Machu Picchu. Clouds. Penguins. Science. Empathy. DNA.

There is no “power” greater than myself, if you mean some sort of spirit or mystical magical floating around electrons-of-the-universe sort of thing, but there are many powers greater than myself among boxers, gang members, guns, and toxic chemicals.

The world is what it is, there are natural processes that explain 96.3% of it so far, and having pulled the low hanging fruit (fire, disease, metallurgy, aeronautics, etc) it gets harder and harder to get those last bits that bring everything into focus. It was 250 years between Newton and Einstein, it might be another 250 before we have the unifying theory that explains spacetime and gravity. Or not, it could happen tomorrow.

Meanwhile I am in awe of much. Music, for example. My dog and cats have no interest, not rhythm, melody or lyrics (obviously), yet it moves the world and has throughout human history. Why is that? Why do birds have melody but raccoons do not? These are the mysteries, not some magic force in the sky that no one has ever seen, heard, or detected in any way.

Where does consciousness come from? Aye, that’s a question. Where does it go when we die? Not up on a cloud with a harp, that I’m sure of.

I liked Band of Brothers. The book was good too.

Harry Potter is a good example of that. Classic good vs evil, but in a very different world that was rich in textures.

Yes, I thought HP was good for my kids. Harry and friends were good role models.

Thought of another: the latest Dune films. I really enjoyed them. My boys and I had read the books (they got further than me). We were excited to see the movies.

I see a Starship Trooper remake is in the works. I read the book only recently...Heinlein was one weird dude. Enjoyed the book, though.

Where does consciousness come from?

One way to put it might be 'organically evolving complexity'. A view presently favored by scientists regards all of experience as precipitating within a vacuum of infinite potential. I prefer to think of it as boundlessly evolving experience, ranging from ephemerally emergent infinitesimal quarks to our self-evident perception of a fifteen billion year old cosmos, in which complexifying experience is seen as ever-entangling within the infinite possibilities of erstwhile nothingness.

A minority of scientists go so far as to hypothesize a 'multiverse' where the boundless possibilities of emergent experience proliferate as real alternate universes. That view is not for me, as I see no need to accord realism to the boundless alternatives that might otherwise have eventuated within all available possibilities. And, of course, the so-called multiverse is, by definition, unobservable, rendering it beyond the realm of science.

In any event, reflective self-awareness – consciousness, if you will – seems an inevitable eventuality amidst boundlessly evolving proliferation within infinite possibilities. And that's where we now-living humans abide.

Tom
('word-salad' master-chef)

Yes, I thought HP was good for my kids. Harry and friends were good role models.

Agreed. 1pk was reading the books in jr high (she used to be a voracious reader). I think HP also gave adults a lot to appreciate. Good stories aimed at kids do that. I could come up with lots of examples there. It's helpful if the parents are watching the movies with the kids that they throw the parents a bone.

Thought of another: the latest Dune films.

Yes. They are excellent. I read the book in my twenties. Coincidentally, I've been rereading it recently. The original film was really bad. The "director's cut" (where they didn't add the blue on blue eyes to the extra scenes) was a bit better, but still not good. I saw a miniseries several years ago that did a decent job. But the latest films are just excellent. I even watched the prequel series on HBO, and looking forward to the next installments of both stories.

I see a Starship Trooper remake is in the works. I read the book only recently...Heinlein was one weird dude. Enjoyed the book, though.

I didn't initially like the movie. It had almost no similarities to the book. Just the title, and the bug adversaries. Then someone told me to watch it with the humans being the bad guys in mind. Still no resemblance to the book, but I could appreciate the movie a lot more when I viewed it as "humans are the bad guys". It made so much more sense. If they are remaking the movie, I hope they stick to the book this time.

Yes, Heinlein was weird. But he told some good stories. "Stranger in a Strange Land" would make a great movie (if they stick to the book). I think they could make good movies out of "Friday" and "Revolt in 2100", too. Needless to say, I would recommend those books to you, also. But this thread is about movies. :-)

Looking forward to seeing "Foundation". Read the books (in my twenties). I've heard the series is excellent.

In any event, reflective self-awareness – consciousness, if you will – seems an inevitable eventuality amidst boundlessly evolving proliferation within infinite possibilities.

If you mean by that that it is a product of complexity, that is becoming (or has become) the dominant thinking. There's been a lot of work on the inevitability of complexity arising (some really good NOVA programs talk about it). And consciousness/self-awareness seems to fall out of increasing complexity of a brain.

But this is tangential, unless you want to reference the movie "The Forbin Project", or "The Terminator" (Skynet). Which are both good movies, IMO.

There's been a lot of work on the inevitability of complexity arising.... And consciousness/self-awareness seems to fall out of increasing complexity of a brain.

Exactly.

Tom

Went to a prerelease showing of Project Hail Mary tonight. Verdict - if you’ve read the book you’ll love it. I did. It follows the book well. A few details missing.

Mrs C has not read the book and isn’t a sci-fi fan in any case. She had trouble following the story.

Just found this. Unfortunately, we have to wait until December! Hopefully we'll have a functioning world left by that point so we can watch this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_9vCamtuPY

Went to a prerelease showing of Project Hail Mary tonight.

Haven't read the book. But the girls want to go, and we've scored $5 tickets (through T-Mobile). I prefer the comfort of my living room. Ever since they started making screens larger than tube TVs, it's big enough (ours is 55", the biggest we can fit in the space). And my feet don't stick to the floor, and I don't have to deal with people who were too cheap to get a baby sitter. But we're going anyway.

Appreciate your verdict. That's encouraging to know it is worthwhile.

The Night of the Hunter, with Lilian Gish...

She died, what, 50 years ago? Must be an oldie. I may have to look for it. Never heard of it, so it may not even be available. But I'll check.

Some may regard this as sacrilege, but a lot of "classic" movies just don't do anything for me. Bogie? IMO, he couldn't act. He was flat emotionally, and droned on monotonically. I recognize that this was at least part of the culture, the image of the "manly tough guy". But his performances leave me bored, even if their were some great lines from his characters. Cagney at least had more emotional range and intonations, but the only movie of his I really like is "One Two Three" (that is hysterical, especially for those of us who can remember the USSR and Cold War and Berlin Wall). That movie also is really hard to find. It popped up on a channel I got maybe 10 years ago (Netflix?), but I'm not sure it's still showing. They always rotate their movies in and out.

Thanks for digging up a movie reference like that. Gives me something to dig into.

And, put simply, such obstacles are getting harder and harder to come by. They used to lie thick on the ground: parental disapproval, difference in social class, a promise made to another......But generally, many of the plausible reasons why your two impossibly attractive leads don't just get on with their relationship in the first act have disappeared.

...and those that really exist are practicaly insurmountable.

He's a Muslim fundie, she's a Jewish soldier.

He's a MAGA. She works at Greenpeace.

He's ICE from a MAGA family. She's a detainee from a shithole country.

I'm pleasantly surprised when there's a fresh concept produced/ released.

Reality -- Fun stuff... the world with the Beatles, Wilson Picket and Jimmy Cliff. Special thanks to the powers that be! Glory be to Reality! :)

Wilson Picket! The Commitments is one of our guilty pleasure movies. Irish kid almost makes good creating a band to play soul for the working class of Dublin.

Point Break should not be for so many reasons.... but is, as are
Harry/Sally, A Good Year, Groundhog Day, all the Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movies, mindless feel good stuff.

I grew up in the world of movie and music people on the west side of the City of Angels. A boatload of cellists, violinists, operatic wannabes, writers, script readers, producers, actors and agents in my extended family, and classmates whose parents reflected the westside desirability to people in sports and entertainment; from Professor Peter Boyd to Marshall Dillon to Barbarella.

Sadly I inherited none of the talent.

inevitable eventuality amidst boundlessly evolving proliferation within infinite possibilities('word-salad' master-chef)

As Salieri's character said in Mozart ... "too many notes."

I'm pleasantly surprised when there's a fresh concept produced/ released.

Agreed. I forgot which class taught me this, but I remember being told there are only a few basic stories, and all other stories are derivative. One was good v evil, another was love... I'm sure there were a couple more. The trick is to tell the basic story in a unique way.

Groundhog, Harry/Sally, Buckaroo, Yesterday, and more all accomplished this (love stories). Most war or police dramas are good v evil (Die Hard, Lethal Weapon). Etc.

I may have to watch Yesterday again. Before they rotate it out of the lineup. I just wish they had left Ana del Armas in it. I saw a deleted scene, and it was wonderful.

Besides being one of my favorite movies from childhood, I learned, recently, it was also meaningful to Bruce Sprinsteen. Could be it requires a certain gothic upbringing.

Come to think of it, could be Nicholson, Kubrick and Stephen King were fans.

Love to hear what you think.

Watch, alone, if possible.

Sano,

I never saw, The Commitments, but have heard, over and over, how good it is. Wilson Picket covers? Must see. Groundhog Day, a favorite.

Sounds like an eclecticly artistic family. Nice.

Movies are so personal. They speak of our earliest experieneces of the silver screen or the tv. The first moments when telepathically we are carried along on an experience someone else has created for us. The earlier, the better we remember them. At least for me. So many over the years, especailly when I'd come home from school, the afternoon movie. Or the Six O'Clock Movie. In those days all from the 20's 30's 40's and fifties. Pretty great.

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