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Author: Steve203 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 2:04 AM
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The US Sec Army, and two high ranking generals, are presenting a new "peace" deal to Ukraine. Reportedly, the "deal" was negotiated between the US and Russia, to be presented to Ukraine.

Trump administration quietly attempting to hammer out new peace plan with Russia

The president’s special envoy, Steve Witkoff, who has been at the center of the administration’s talks with Moscow, has been leading the effort, the source said. The negotiations accelerated this week as the administration feels the Kremlin has signaled a renewed openness to a deal, the source added.

Army Secretary Dan Driscoll and a top-level Pentagon delegation arrived this morning in Ukraine “on a fact finding mission to meet with Ukrainian officials and discuss efforts to end the war,” Army Spokesperson Col. Dave Butler said in a statement.


https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/articles/trum...

Former ambassador to Ukraine, Taylor, was on the Beeb this evening. He said that, if the details of the "plan" that have been leaked, are accurate, the "deal" so favors Russia, he wonders if the US had any input at all. He expects Ukraine to reject the "deal" out of hand.

Meanwhile:

Ukraine envoy Keith Kellogg ‘quits’ after plan for US peace leaked

Donald Trump’s Ukraine envoy Lt Gen Keith Kellogg is leaving the role, it has emerged hours after a US plan to end the war leaked.

His exit will come as unwelcome news to Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, who is being pressured to give up territory to Russia.

News of his resignation came just hours after an unfavourable draft agreement to end the war was leaked to the media.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-envoy...

I suspect many here understand that Trump's lust for a Nobel is so hot, he will throw anyone under the bus to get it.

Steve
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Author: marco100   😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 9:05 AM
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Steve,

I think as long as the Ukrainians and the Russians want to keep fighting each other and dying in their war, NATO and the U.S. should keep shoveling arms to Ukraine. No one should force Ukraine to accept a peace deal that they don't want to accept.

It's better for NATO and the U.S. if Russia continues to exhaust itself fighting Ukraine, that's just the bottom line, that is if the two countries don't want to or cannot agree to a peace deal.

If you look back at the history of Europe in general, the various states or principalities were constantly involved in wars of attrition against each other often lasting for multiple decades; and involving various alliances amongst different states with different sets of interests.

I mean even in the 1990's, Kosovo, Bosnia, etc. Same deal.

This war of attrition could go on for the next 50 years and it wouldn't bother me at all, as long as no NATO troops get involved, and as long as it doesn't spread beyond Ukraine.

Europe is just being Europe, thank God it's not the Germans trying to take over the world again. That's probably going to be the next war. Yawn.

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Author: ges 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 9:43 AM
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I suspect many here understand that Trump's lust for a Nobel is so hot, he will throw anyone under the bus to get it.


He is a bottomless pit of neediness and greed. All his life he has been trying to prove that he's a 'winner', when all he has done has covered himself, not in glory, but in ignominy. His cult is too blind to see it, but history will judge Trump a villain.
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Author: marco100   😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 10:07 AM
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It's great being omniscient, isn't it? God-like, even.

A fool believes he knows something that he doesn't know.

A wise man knows what he does not know.

None of us can predict the future.
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Author: wzambon 🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 10:46 AM
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A fool believes he knows something that he doesn't know

Probably not a good idea to brag about it, marco.
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Author: marco100   😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 10:51 AM
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I know baloney and road apples when I see them.

Do you like white bread or whole wheat on your b.s. sandwiches?


Keep the ice smooth.
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Author: Steve203 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 10:55 AM
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NATO and the U.S. should keep shoveling arms to Ukraine.

iirc, the US no longer gives Ukraine a nickle. The European countries are paying for the arms the US is shipping to Ukraine.

Some time ago, I wondered when the EU is going to say to itself "why are we paying for USian arms, so US companies profit, instead of giving the money to our own arms producers?". Since then, I have seen reports that Ukraine has contracted for a French air defense system, and is negotiating for Swedish Saab Gripen fighters. Maybe that is why Lord Trump has swung back to demanding Ukraine, effectively, surrender? Because US arms producers are no longer profiteering from the war, and Trump's priority, second to profits for himself, is the ease and comfort of Putin?

Steve
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Author: Banksy 🐝🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 11:17 AM
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I know baloney and road apples when I see them. ~OldMarco00

No you don't.

Donald Trump lied to you a total of 30,573 times during his first term. Averaging about 21 erroneous claims a day.
This is a Documented fact. He's made a career of lying to gullible people like you, Marco.

Here's a few of his latest "baloney and road apples" lies...

"The U.S. currently has no inflation." ~Trump Lie

"Regarding boat strikes off the coast of Venezuela, Every boat that we knock out we save 25,000 American lives!" ~Trump Lie

"My tariffs are helping to slash the deficit this year by more than 25%." ~Trump Lie

"Portland is burning to the ground." ~Trump Lie

"DOGE halts yearly payment of $2.5 million to Barack Obama for royalties linked to Obamacare." ~Trump Lie

"Voting in California is rigged." ~Trump Lie

"The new White House ballroom won't interfere with the current building." ~Trump Lie

"50% of the presidents, almost, have used the Insurrection Act. And that's unquestioned power." ~Trump Lie

"We are now the only country in the world that uses mail-in voting." ~Trump Lie

I could go on and on.
Why do so many MAGAs like being lied to?

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-tr...
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Author: ges 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 11:30 AM
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I could go on and on.
Why do so many MAGAs like being lied to?


Mutually shared hatreds. Such a positive outlook.
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Author: lsmr409   😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 11:44 AM
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Mutually shared hatreds.

On target. Great way to put it. Hatred of the outsider, the folks on SNAP (unless they are MAGA voters), trans Americans, asylum-seekers, the “Democrat” party. Sums up ppl like m100 and D1 so well, I’m afraid.
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Author: Steve203 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 12:24 PM
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It's great being omniscient, isn't it? God-like, even.

Typical "JC" in my experience. They seem to think they are uniquely qualified, and the smartest guy in the room, when, to onlookers, they are drowning in their own hubris. I have commented before, when a store manager tried to tell the President of Radio Shack that the competitive environment had changed, and RS' prices were way off the mark, Bernie thundered "I've been in this business forty years. I know everything"

Steve
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Author: onepoorguy   😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 12:25 PM
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Because US arms producers are no longer profiteering from the war,...

I'm sure they aren't happy about that. I expect that they will be contacting the congress-people whom they bought and paid for to change that situation. The occasional bomb on a alleged cartel boat in the Caribbean isn't going to keep them in caviar and Mercedes.
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Author: marco100   😊 😞
Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/20/25 3:26 PM
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You forgot the following lie:"Men can be women.". Oh wait Trump didn't say that one.
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Author: Banksy 🐝🐝 HONORARY
SHREWD
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Number: of 75972 
Subject: Re: Peace at any price.
Date: 11/22/25 11:31 AM
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Hatred of the outsider, the folks on SNAP (unless they are MAGA voters), trans Americans, asylum-seekers, the “Democrat” party. Sums up ppl like m100 and D1 so well, I’m afraid. ~Ismr409

Nailed it! And what a sad way to live...

"All hatred of others is just a reflection of self-hatred." ~Alan Cohen
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