It is difficult for an ongoing business (or an investor) to go bankrupt without debt.
- Manlobbi
Halls of Shrewd'm / US Policy❤
No. of Recommendations: 3
No. of Recommendations: 10
Personally, on November 5th, I will think of the 13 brave servicemen that died during Afghanistan withdrawal. And I will also think of the untold number of servicemen that didn’t die because we had a president with the backbone to withdraw our troops from a fraudulent Afghan government that fell faster than a cement block landing on a house of cards.
Then again, I’ll also be thinking of the 5 Americans who died and the 174 American police officers who were injured in Washington DC on January 6th when a spineless president watched on TV as an armed insurrection tried to overturn a free and fair election.
Who knew that legitimate political discourse could be so dangerous?
No. of Recommendations: 2
Then again, I’ll also be thinking of the 5 Americans who died and the 174 American police officers who were injured in Washington DC on January 6th when a spineless president watched on TV as an armed insurrection tried to overturn a free and fair election.Good job Alpha trying to divert Dementia Joe’s horrible failure as a commander in chief cowardly surrender of Afghanistan.
First let’s get your numbers straight,
“Within 36 hours, five people died: one was shot by Capitol Police, another died of a drug overdose, and three died of natural causes, including a police officer.[c][33][43] Many people were injured, including 174 police officers. Four officers who responded to the attack died by suicide within seven months.[34]”
I guess they couldn’t overcome the grief the democrats got them into.
https://cha.house.gov/press-releases?ID=0A9F1003-C...So please, follow the bouncing ball and stay on topic.
No. of Recommendations: 5
cowardly surrender of Afghanistan. Let's get YOUR facts straight. Trump is the one who negotiated the timeline for withdrawal from Afghanistan. He negotiated that with the Taliban and not with the Afghan government. And he oversaw the first part of the withdrawal, continuing with the reduction in US forces even though the Taliban wasn't living up to their promises.
Biden inherited the timeline from Trump, realized the Trump-negotiated deadline for complete withdrawal on May 1, 2021 was not going to work, but continued on the path to complete withdrawal, as he had promised during his successful campaign for President.
The "cowardly surrender" was entirely of Trump's doing. He's the one who created the mess for Biden to clean up.
I'm not going to say the withdrawal was done well by either man. But it is Trump who started it, signed the initial agreement to withdraw, and failed to hold the Taliban responsible for holding up their end of the lousy bargain.
--Peter
Timeline:
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-...
No. of Recommendations: 3
Let's get YOUR facts straight.
The right wing and facts seem to have taken to their separate ways.
No. of Recommendations: 3
Nobody told Biden to do what he did, by abandoning the airbase and evac’ing in the most insecure way possible.
Nobody.
If you claim this is Trump’s fault, you’re kidding yourself the same way you were when you folks insisted that Biden wasn’t senile.
No. of Recommendations: 12
cowardly surrender of Afghanistan.
It looks like the OP has been removed.
However, for the tragically misinformed or the deliberately obtuse: at one point we had 100,000 troops in Afghanistan. When Biden took over Trump had reduced that to 2,500, had already negotiated with the Taliban to ensure our complete withdrawal, had closed two out of the three airfields that the US at one time used (meaning the Taliban knew exactly where the departure staging would take place), and had caused the Pentagon to draw down the number of defensive weapons that might have been used to help a more orderly withdrawal.
Biden had a choice to either increase the number of troops in Afghanistan, a nonstarter after 14 years of war and the druthers of the American people, or to continue and get the end that Trump had planned with his usual finesse over with.
The withdrawal was messy, as withdrawals of that sort usually are (see: Vietnam)
No. of Recommendations: 2
Let's get YOUR facts straight. Trump is the one who negotiated the timeline for withdrawal from Afghanistan.STOP IT with the baloney! Biden did not have to follow Trump’s guidelines.
“No, Trump Didn’t Force Biden’s Withdrawal
The Taliban violated the Doha agreement, so the U.S. could have stayed.”
“The Biden administration has consistently blamed the Trump administration’s 2020 Doha agreement with the Taliban for the Afghanistan debacle. The agreement, the Biden team insists, left the president no choice but to remove U.S. forces unconditionally from Afghanistan by Aug. 31. In fact, President Biden’s failure to hold the Taliban to the terms of the Doha agreement contributed to this disaster.”
Read More
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-biden-withdrawa...“Trump slams Biden for not ‘following the plan’ he left on Afghanistan
“He ran out of Afghanistan instead of following the plan our Administration left for him—a plan that protected our people and our property, and ensured the Taliban would never dream of taking our Embassy or providing a base for new attacks against America. The withdrawal would be guided by facts on the ground,” Trump said in a statement.”
Read More
https://thehill.com/news/“Top generals contradict Biden, say they urged him not to withdraw from Afghanistan
Gen. Frank McKenzie said that he recommended maintaining a small force of 2,500 troops in Afghanistan earlier this year.
Top generals told lawmakers under oath on Tuesday that they advised President Joe Biden early this year to keep several thousand troops in Afghanistan — directly contradicting the president’s comments in August that no one warned him not to withdraw troops from the country.”
Read More
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/28/top-gener...
No. of Recommendations: 10
I'm not going to say the withdrawal was done well by either man.
------------------------------
It's possible the last "withdrawal" from a military battle that looked like the loser walked away with any dignity might have been the red coats at Yorktown. Seriously... Can you name any example in the history of the last 200 years where the loser in a war walked away gracefully with head held high?
And THAT is the problem with the American "widthdrawal" from Afghanistan. No military or political figure is willing to state the reality of what actually transpired there. The United States reacted to a terrorist event by launching a conventional war in a land-locked desert country and conducted a twenty year "war." During that war, we changed leaders three times, changed miilitary strategies probably ten times and changed public rationales at least four times (get bin Laden, provide education to Afghani girls, help establish democracy amid the corruption of Karzai, prevent ISIS from using the state as al Qeda did). We might have eventually shrunk ISIS down to a manageable threat, partly by pushing it into Syria, but the United States UTTERLY FAILED in every other aspect of its stated goals for twenty years and the trillions of dollars spent.
Show me any leader capable of pulling off a withdrawal from that circumstance while making it look like MacArther wading ashore re-capturing the Phillipines and I'll show you a country that is completely deluded. There is no way to CHOREOGRAPH a withdrawal from such a war and make it appear "honorable." The only act that can provide any semblance of honor is to decide to abandon such efforts as soon as possible and avoid adding more names to future monuments and adding more veterans to our medical rolls for PTSD.
WTH
No. of Recommendations: 3
My 2 bits. No matter what it was going to look bad, that is why Obama was reticent. Then you have Trump negotiate it , and Steve Miller plants obstruction on getting the visas prepped, etc. We destroyed plenty as we left Vietnam. My father planned the medical evacuation of Vietnam, then had a hart attack and ended up at Fitzsimons.
Trump negotiated that badly, and left Biden with a bad timetable, poor terms, and sabotaged his own country by planting obstructions.Still, we planned on getting 40,000 out and got 120,000 out. I will always think of Trump as a traitor. For that and Jan 6. Jan 6 is so embarrassing the right has to create false narratives or recognize they were on a traitorous path, led by a traitor.
So what he have before us is how to get past Trump executing Project 2025 because he has already shown us he doesn't care about us or the MAGAts. He'll pardon everyone involved on Jan 6 when elected, but we need to blunt his ability to implement P25 and I'm not even sure having the House or Senate will do that.
No. of Recommendations: 3
I would have thought the overwhelming loss of blood and treasure in Viet Nam would have immunized us against foolish foreign adventures. But the temptation of a formidable standing military and the political aspirations of jingoist idiots ensures that Afghanistan will not be our last debacle. (This war will pay for itself!)
How much better off would our national debt be had we not been involved in Irag/Afghanistan? Several trillions, and the costs keep rising to this day as we care for our wounded soldiers, (or should be!).
The only solution I can see is to shrink our military by half. Too bad the politicians will never allow it.
No. of Recommendations: 2
The only solution I can see is to shrink our military by half. Too bad the politicians will never allow it.
SNIP
“The first US president, George Washington, enunciated a policy of peace through strength in his fifth annual message to Congress, the 1793 State of the Union Address.[4][5] He said:
There is a rank due to the United States among nations which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war.[6]”
No. of Recommendations: 1
The only solution I can see is to shrink our military by half. Too bad the politicians will never allow it.
The military doubles as a jobs program. Not only people in uniform, but all the industries and contractors that support them with weapons and materiel. That's mostly why Congress won't allow it, because it will impact the districts of dozens of congresscritters. That is, perhaps, by design of the "military industrial complex".
Also, I'm not sure shrinking our military is a good idea. China is increasingly bellicose, and threatening a treaty ally. We have to be able to respond. Russia is saber-rattling about NATO, and we have to be able to respond there, too (again, a treaty...).
On some levels it is annoying, but we really are the only ones that can do it.
No. of Recommendations: 3
The only solution I can see is to shrink our military by half.
....On some levels it is annoying, but we really are the only ones that can do it
Japan is doing more now, but the Yen is shaky. We needed the TPP, Trump will screw up Asia, but we will have Australia, the UK, India and a few smaller ones. We need to keep Ukraine in play and the Republicans are untrustworthy. We need to keep China from attempting to build the last island and seal off the S China Sea.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Also, I'm not sure shrinking our military is a good idea. China is increasingly bellicose, and threatening a treaty ally. We have to be able to respond. Russia is saber-rattling about NATO, and we have to be able to respond there, too (again, a treaty...). - 1pg
-----------------
Agree, rather than shrinking the military, we should make better use of the one we already have and continue to invest in. We have fallen behind in recruiting, maintenance, and stockpiling.
No. of Recommendations: 11
We need to keep Ukraine in play and the Republicans are untrustworthy. We need to keep China from attempting to build the last island and seal off the S China Sea.
When Trump is elected Ukraine will fall within months. The US will stop support, and Europe cannot carry it alone.
Likely within a year, two at most, China will move on Taiwan because they will see that we are a helpless, pitiful giant who no longer wants to be involved in anything outside our own borders, even though the loss of Taiwan would send shockwaves through the tech industry in this country.
Iran? Don’t make me laugh.
Yeah, foreign policy hangs in the balance, but nobody seems to care.
No. of Recommendations: 2
Too bad the politicians will never allow it.
The politicians will allow it as soon as the campaign contributions from defense contractors stop.
—Peter
No. of Recommendations: 5
When Trump is elected Ukraine will fall within months. The US will stop support, and Europe cannot carry it alone.
I agree here because I have not seen a way to make it worth it to Trump to support Ukraine. Trump was talked into Javelins by telling him it will be good for business - the Military complex side. So he likes that.
Likely within a year, two at most, China will move on Taiwan because they will see that we are a helpless, pitiful giant who no longer wants to be involved in anything outside our own borders, even though the loss of Taiwan would send shockwaves through the tech industry in this country.
We have been gearing for that, but Ukraine has got some of the stockpiles low. I was heartened that the Philippines is letting us set up the northern islands so we can well cover Taiwan's back side. China's defense strategy is to fire so many missiles at ya that you can't get em all. Good strategy. I expect they will attempt that on Taiwan too.
Iran? Don’t make me laugh.
Well Trump will screw up, they'll make an A bomb and will be hands off. But we're still the Great Satan.
No. of Recommendations: 6
"Also, I'm not sure shrinking our military is a good idea."
America's defense budget is more than the rest of the world's combined spends. That amount of overspending bloats our debt and tempts reckless know-nothings into reckless adventures.
There is more than a little room for cuts.
No. of Recommendations: 3
https://econofact.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/1...Not quite, FD, we're 40%. You may be thinking of the next 10 countries. Defense spending is a favorite of Republicans. It is often cited by progressives when talking about free Healthcare. There's no such thing as free, we pay one way or the other, but it shouldn't be a profit center - except for elites who won't go bankrupt over the costs.
No. of Recommendations: 2
America's defense budget is more than the rest of the world's combined spends.Good, I am glad to hear that.
That amount of overspending bloats our debt and tempts reckless know-nothings into reckless adventures.
There is more than a little room for cuts.Yes, there is room for cuts.
Let’s start with Biden’s you all come border crisis.
Snip
“This chaos is also imposing record costs on Americans. Last year, FAIR published a report entitled the
Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers. The study strives to illustrate the
myriad of ways Americans pay for illegal immigration. Our estimate, which is a conservative one, is that
Americans now pay $150.7 billion dollars annually due to illegal immigration. This figure represents a
net cost. In terms of gross expenditures due to illegal immigration, we estimate that Americans pay
$182 billion. Approximately $31 billion is received from illegal aliens in taxes, only 17 percent of the
costs they create.”
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/117257/...Snip
“The Biden Administration Wants Even More Money to Distribute Illegal Aliens Throughout the United States”
https://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-bi...
No. of Recommendations: 3
The company you keep LM:
SNIP FAIR leaders have ties to white supremacist groups and eugenicists and have made many racist statements. Its advertisements have been rejected because of racist content. FAIR’s founder, the late John Tanton, has expressed his wish that America remain a majority-white population: a goal to be achieved, presumably, by limiting the number of nonwhites who enter the country. One of the group’s main goals is upending the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which ended a decades-long, racist quota system that limited immigration mostly to northern Europeans. FAIR President Dan Stein has called the Act a “mistake.”
In their own words
“Immigrants don’t come all church-loving, freedom-loving, God-fearing … Many of them hate America, hate everything that the United States stands for. Talk to some of these Central Americans.” – FAIR President Dan Stein, interviewed by Tucker Carlson, Oct. 2, 1997
“Do we leave it to individuals to decide that they are the intelligent ones who should have more kids? And more troublesome, what about the less intelligent, who logically should have less? Who is going to break the bad news [to less intelligent individuals], and how will it be implemented?” – John Tanton, letter to eugenicist Robert K. Graham (now deceased), Sept. 18, 1996
“I blame ninety-eight percent of responsibility for this country’s immigration crisis on Ted Kennedy and his political allies, who decided some time back in 1958, earlier perhaps, that immigration was a great way to retaliate against Anglo-Saxon dominance and hubris, and the immigration laws from the 1920s were just this symbol of that, and it’s a form of revengism, or revenge, that these forces continue to push the immigration policy that they know full well are [sic] creating chaos and will continue to create chaos down the line.” – FAIR President Dan Stein, "Oral History of the Federation for American Immigration Reform," interview of Dan Stein by John Tanton, August 1994
“I’ve come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that.” – John Tanton, letter to eugenicist and ecology professor Garrett Hardin (now deceased), Dec. 10, 1993
“As Whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night? Or will there be an explosion?” – FAIR founder and board member John Tanton, Oct. 10, 1986 SNIP
Are you open about this with your friends?
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-...
