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Author: commonone 🐝 HONORARY
SHREWD
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Number: of 48465 
Subject: Remember When Chuck Grassley
Date: 11/28/2023 12:58 PM
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No. of Recommendations: 11
...the Senate president pro tempore in January, 2021, said that he and not vice president Mike Pence would preside over the certification of Electoral College votes since "we don't expect him [Pence] to be there"?

Well, originally Pence had planned to give Trump what he wanted: a possible Constitutional crisis in the House on January 6.

In a meeting at the White House in late December 2020, as many as 20 House Republicans erupted in applause after Pence told them to "get your evidence together" and assured them "we [will] get our day in Congress," with an opportunity for all of the evidence to be heard before the election would be certified, sources said he told Smith's team.

At one point before Pence was set to preside over Congress certifying the election results on Jan. 6, 2021, he decided that he would skip the proceedings altogether, writing in the note that there were "too many questions" and it would otherwise be "too hurtful to my friend." But he ultimately concluded he had a duty to show up.

And that helps explain why Grassley said he would preside over the vote count and didn't expect Pence to be there.

What "ultimately" happened is that Pence's son, a marine, told Pence while on vacation in Colorado: "Dad, you took the same oath I took" -- it was "an oath to support and defend the Constitution."

The Constitution? That pesky old thing? Trump already dismissed that as disposable.

So, it turns out that Pence was perfectly willing to blow up democracy and that Pence's son turned out to be the guy who saved democracy.


https://abcnews.go.com/US/pence-told-jan-6-special...


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Author: bighairymike   😊 😞
Number: of 15062 
Subject: Re: Remember When Chuck Grassley
Date: 11/28/2023 1:20 PM
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So, it turns out that Pence was perfectly willing to blow up democracy and that Pence's son turned out to be the guy who saved democracy. - CO

------------------------------------

Save from what? In the real world, democracy was never at risk. As they say, democracy is messy and this episode certainly sets a high bar, but actually losing our democracy, no way. I have more faith in American institutions and freedom loving citizens than you apparently do. Too bad to live in your world.
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Author: lizgdal   😊 😞
Number: of 15062 
Subject: Re: Remember When Chuck Grassley
Date: 11/28/2023 11:02 PM
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No. of Recommendations: 6
Many democracies have failed. Strong institutions help prevent this, but there has been erosion in U.S. institutions. For example, the peaceful transfer of power after an election. You might want to take your head out the sand and look around. Trump is clearly a student of history (with Mussolini as an idol). George Santayana wrote: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Institutions are only as strong as the people within. We should celebrate those brave enough to stand up to threats of violence and keep their oaths of office, and condemn the cowards who threaten violence and abandon their oaths. Pence kept his oath of office even after a violent mob threatened him.

US added to list of ‘backsliding’ democracies for first time
"The United States is a high-performing democracy, and even improved its performance in indicators of impartial administration (corruption and predictable enforcement) in 2020. However, the declines in civil liberties and checks on government indicate that there are serious problems with the fundamentals of democracy... A historic turning point came in 2020-21 when former president Donald Trump questioned the legitimacy of the 2020 election results in the United States." In addition, Hudson pointed to a "decline in the quality of freedom of association and assembly during the summer of protests in 2020" after the police killing of George Floyd.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/22/us...
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Author: weatherman   😊 😞
Number: of 15062 
Subject: Re: Remember When Chuck Grassley
Date: 11/29/2023 12:03 PM
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pence, like the MAGA GOP, are nothing w/out the cult of 1. all but christie are auditioning for a job under trump.

although seemingly neutral on the topics of Constitution, treason, ethics, and racism, God will surely advise Pence to get over the whole 'hanging' blip if it means another job.
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