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...because certain states would try to pretend that money isn't fungible. They'd use federal matching dollars for Medicaid to prop up their illegal alien healthcare programs. Obamacare also played a role, but after Joe Wilson was pilloried for stating the obvious you didn't hear many people bringing it up.

Well now that there's hay to be made, the actual truth can come out!

lol.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/07/19/immigran...

Illinois among Democrat-led states rolling back Medicaid access for people lacking permanent legal status

You don't say.


At least seven states and the District of Columbia have offered coverage for immigrants since mostly 2020. But three of them have done an about-face, ending or limiting coverage for hundreds of thousands of immigrants who aren’t in the U.S. legally in California, Illinois and Minnesota.
The programs cost way more than officials had projected at a time when the states are facing multibillion-dollar deficits now and in the future. In Illinois, adult immigrants ages 42-64 without legal status have lost their health care to save an estimated $404 million. All adult immigrants in Minnesota no longer have access to the state program, saving nearly $57 million. In California, no one will automatically lose coverage, but new enrollments for adults will stop in 2026 to save more than $3 billion over several years.
Cuts in all three states were backed by Democratic governors who once championed expanding health coverage to immigrants.
The Trump administration this week shared the home addresses, ethnicities and personal data of all Medicaid recipients with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials. Twenty states, including California, Illinois and Minnesota, have sued.

Let's note also that for years the left has wanted national databases for all sorts of things...now they don't want them.

And of course the usual sequence was followed:

1. liberals do something dumb/bad/illegal/sinister
2. Conservatives point it out
3. Media pounces, says you're nuts, it's not happening, liar or You're a Bad Person For Calling This Out.
4. Facts come out, conservatives proven right.
5. Media says, "This was a good thing and you're a bad person for wanting to get rid of it"

Love all the video of Illinois governor J.B. Pritzker testifying that illegals don't get Medicaid in his state. Is there any democrat who *doesn't* lie to Congress?

Dope1: Illinois among Democrat-led states rolling back Medicaid access for people lacking permanent legal status

You don't say.

Umm.

Illinois had a very public program, Health Benefits for Immigrant Adults (HBIA), so the suggestion that the state "finally admit(ted)" it is a little silly. The program sunset July 1.

Wasn't exactly a secret.

BTW, Trump is still a pedophile.

BTW, any comments on Mad King Donald's deep fake Obama arrest video?

Didn't think so.

Wasn't exactly a secret.

Really? After years of blowing smoke up everyone's rear end you're going to go with "We always knew". Gotcha.

Shameless. On the left side of the political aisle, it's a feature, not a bug.

And do please try to stay on topic. Thanks a ton, ChatNPC!

Really? After years of blowing smoke up everyone's rear end you're going to go with "We always knew". Gotcha.

No one's blowing smoke up anyone's rear end, and you don't have a "gotcha." All you've done is use "money is fungible" to pretend that you've made a point.

If someone were to claim that Pennsylvania (to pick a state) has been using federal roadway funds to build their state prisons, that would be false. Pennsylvania does not (to my knowledge) take any of the money that's granted to them for the purpose of roadway construction for things unrelated to roadway construction, and certainly not to build prisons. I would certainly be correct to say, "Pennsylvania does not use roadway funds from the federal government to build prisons."

But, I hear you say, "all money is fungible! Money they receive in roadway funds is money they don't have to take from their general fund to spend on prisons. Therefore, they're using those roadway funds for prisons!"

That's a pretty silly claim - it basically means that every state uses every federal dollar for purposes other than what the money has been granted for. And it's certainly not the claim that Democrats have been making, which is that illegal immigrants are not enrolled in Medicare/Medicaid and are not entitled to receive benefits under those programs and virtually none of them do receive those benefits.

That's a pretty silly claim - it basically means that every state uses every federal dollar for purposes other than what the money has been granted for. And it's certainly not the claim that Democrats have been making, which is that illegal immigrants are not enrolled in Medicare/Medicaid and are not entitled to receive benefits under those programs and virtually none of them do receive those benefits.

Sure, okay.
https://x.com/USBornNRaised/status/194364437664045...

They don't get Medicaid...except of course, when they do.

They don't get Medicaid...except of course, when they do.

Not sure what you think your link says....the overwhelming majority of those funds were labeled as "Non-Medicaid, Non-CHIP."

The rest is almost certainly: 1) state funds distributed to hospitals for that treatment or 2) un-reimbursed treatment, since EMTALA requires that hospitals treat people for certain conditions regardless of their immigration status, but which gets covered for people who are uninsured (whether illegal or not) through the DSH programs that keep rural and low-income hospitals from going bankrupt and closing.

Those people were almost certainly not enrolled in Medicaid, and almost certainly did not receive any funds from the program for their treatment.

Those people were almost certainly not enrolled in Medicaid, and almost certainly did not receive any funds from the program for their treatment.

Other than some of the line items on there, but whatever.
The point(s) are:
-Health care dollars are scare
-Illegal aliens consume a fair amount of them
-It's high time to end that practice

The debate will of course focus on what Monsters All The Republicans Are (what else is new) instead of answering the pertinent question: How can we have a robust enough guest worker program such that we don't have anybody living in the shadows anymore?

Wow! Does anything make racist MAGAs angrier than minorities receiving medical care?

Trump’s golf trips cost taxpayers hundreds of millions. Why don't we cut those?
Trump has made Billions grifting his gullible followers, why can't he pay for his own golf outings?

The debate will of course focus on what Monsters All The Republicans Are (what else is new) instead of answering the pertinent question: How can we have a robust enough guest worker program such that we don't have anybody living in the shadows anymore?

An odd thing to say in this thread, since it's a thread that you started and which you chose to focus on insinuating what Monsters All The Democrats Are (for allegedly lying about illegal migrants being on Medicaid), rather than starting a thread on how we can have a more robust guest worker program. Only after the error in that claim is pointed out to you do you switch to lamenting that people are talking about the wrong thing.

However, to address your point, the reason we don't talk about having a more robust guest worker program is that such a program would run very much counter to the positions of MAGA (or at least the majority position), and certain against the policy ideas of Stephen Miller. So any such discussion is pretty much DOA for the next 3.5 years. Guest worker programs had largely found an ideological home among the business/Establishment wing of the GOP as a possible solution to getting illegal migrants out of the labor force without causing significant disruption in the industries that rely on foreign workers. That faction is now almost utterly out of power within the GOP. So you're not going to see "guest worker program" on the agenda for quite a while now.

An odd thing to say in this thread, since it's a thread that you started and which you chose to focus on insinuating what Monsters All The Democrats Are (for allegedly lying about illegal migrants being on Medicaid), rather than starting a thread on how we can have a more robust guest worker program. Only after the error in that claim is pointed out to you do you switch to lamenting that people are talking about the wrong thing.

The democrats/media follow a predictable pattern of behavior. Nothing you've said refuted the original call out there, sorry.

And further, there's nothing wrong with getting to root causes of problems, ever.

However, to address your point, the reason we don't talk about having a more robust guest worker program is that such a program would run very much counter to the positions of MAGA (or at least the majority position), and certain against the policy ideas of Stephen Miller.

This isn't correct.
The debate gets bastardized right off the rails because what happens is that the discussion immediately zooms in on...amnesty as some kind of "solution". Instead of addressing the issues around illegal workers

-Some have been here for decades
-Many keep their noses clean for all that time (other than the living illegally part)
-Many work hard and have kids who are great citizens
-There is a need in some fields for a seasonal workforce

...the "solution" proposed is some kind of amnesty. That's what Miller and others object to.

"Amnesty" should be a non-starter. After a couple of years' worth of the border security that we have now, maybe do something. But we already have Guest Worker programs like this one:

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h2b

The H-2B nonimmigrant program permits employers to temporarily hire nonimmigrants to perform nonagricultural labor or services in the United States. The employment must be of a temporary nature for a limited period of time such as a one-time occurrence, seasonal need, peakload need or intermittent need. The H-2B program requires the employer to attest to the Department of Labor that it will offer a wage that equals or exceeds the highest of the prevailing wage, applicable Federal minimum wage, the State minimum wage, or local minimum wage to the H-2B nonimmigrant worker for the occupation in the area of intended employment during the entire period of the approved H-2B labor certification. The H-2B program also establishes certain recruitment and displacement standards in order to protect similarly employed U.S. workers.

Expand programs like this, make E-Verify more robust, and there you go.

That's a pretty silly claim

And yet, that’s pretty much how many of their arguments go.

Followed by:

1. All Democrats are crooks and should be frogmarched to prison and,

2. Posters who support this egregious theft are fools, like I’ve been saying for years, and

3. This is why liberals should net be listened to, and

3 I win (happy dance)

Kinda fun to watch, but it does get boring after a while.

...the "solution" proposed is some kind of amnesty. That's what Miller and others object to.

I think you're wrong.

Not that they don't object to amnesty - they certainly hate amnesty with the fire of thousand suns.

But there's no indication that they're any less hostile to a guest worker program. Recall the conflict over the H1-B visa program that happened early on in the administration. Musk was on the side supporting the program, and it was Miller (and Loomer and Krikorian and the other MAGA hardliners) pushing back hard against it. Musk prevailed in that conflict, but it certainly showed where the lines were drawn. Krikorian hates even the H2-A program. And you saw how they pushed Brooke Rollins from where she was advocating for farmers to be spared the whip on immigration raids earlier in the Administration to now claiming that those workers will be replaced by citizens that lose their Medicaid.

There's no way that this Administration "expands programs like this" as long as Miller's holding the policy reins on immigration matters.

That faction is now almost utterly out of power within the GOP. So you're not going to see "guest worker program" on the agenda for quite a while now.

I don't know how much turnover will occur in the Senate in the next two elections, but MAGA has given Dems a gift (if they don't blow it). So maybe that won't be true(??). That is, maybe they won't need many (any?) Rep votes to get such a program. For example, central CA (Inland Empire) is a lot of agriculture, and the Felon's policies are affecting their workforce...so there could be some votes to be had there (especially in the House). I would think.

As a side note, when Dope is losing an argument (which is pretty much always, when he goes against you), he changes the subject and/or moves the goalposts. As I'm sure you've noticed.

I think you're wrong.

Given that we still have guest worker programs, I’d say I’m right.

Not that they don't object to amnesty - they certainly hate amnesty with the fire of thousand suns.

Sure.

But there's no indication that they're any less hostile to a guest worker program. Recall the conflict over the H1-B visa program that happened early on in the administration

H1-B’s are an entirely different thing from H2-B’s. For one, H2B’s are meant for shorter time periods whereas somebody could be on an H1 for years. The types of jobs are also vastly different: somebody on an H1B working on supply software for say, Amazon is earning a lot more than a seasonal ag worker. There will always be tension around tech jobs not being filled by Americans.

There's no way that this Administration "expands programs like this" as long as Miller's holding the policy reins on immigration matters.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5111909-trump-i...

Miller later added, “As for the farmers, there is a guest worker program that President Trump supports.”

And Trump has supported an immigration system like Canada’s (and most other countries) that’s based on the economic needs of the US:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-immigration-sy....

As a side note, when Dope is losing an argument (which is pretty much always, when he goes against you), he changes the subject and/or moves the goalposts. As I'm sure you've noticed.

"Like Felon, Like Dope." as the saying goes.

And Trump has supported an immigration system like Canada’s (and most other countries) that’s based on the economic needs of the US:

You know that Trump says a lot of things about a lot of things, but those things do not necessarily reflect what policy positions his administration will take.

This is an especially hardline immigration restrictionist Administration, operating in a very immigration restrictionist environment among the base of the GOP. It is not a time when proposals to liberalize an existing program that benefits foreign workers will find fertile ground. That doesn't mean that the programs that exist today will be demolished; but the fact that they're not demolished does not mean there's any realistic chance that they're getting expanded.

Any proposal to liberalize any immigrant program is highly unlikely to survive a trip to Miller's office. It would not, as the kids say, "meet the moment." There will likely be another political moment to revisit hardline immigration restrictions...but almost certainly not until after the end of Trump's presidency.

You know that Trump says a lot of things about a lot of things, but those things do not necessarily reflect what policy positions his administration will take.

Except that in this case they talk about it a lot last time:
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/articles/pres...

The President’s plan has two parts. First, it recognizes that full border security is the bedrock of any functioning immigration system and proposes functional, operational, and structural reforms to strengthen America’s border infrastructure and laws. Second, it creates a new merit-based legal immigration system that protects American wages and safety net programs, prioritizes immediate families, and creates a fair and transparent process for immigration to America.

Why do you say this:
This is an especially hardline immigration restrictionist Administration, operating in a very immigration restrictionist environment among the base of the GOP. It is not a time when proposals to liberalize an existing program that benefits foreign workers will find fertile ground. </o>

Everything discussed here fits within the framework of what Trump has wanted in the past.

Any proposal to liberalize any immigrant program is highly unlikely to survive a trip to Miller's office.

...which is why the new amnesty bill that has some support in the House is DOA.

It is not a time when proposals to liberalize an existing program that benefits foreign workers will find fertile ground.

All the MAGA kids are going to be doing a LOT of field work harvesting fruit and vegetables at VERY LOW WAGES.

If not, then the farmers go bust (crops not picked).

You either screw the kids or you screw the farmers.

YES, WE HAVE NO (BANANAS, TOMATOES, LETTUCE, (most) BERRIES, GRAPES, PEACHES, PEARS, and so on.

Sitting on the sidelines and watching you and Spankee sink out of sight with all your claims (without facts, as usual).

The President’s plan has two parts. First, it recognizes that full border security is the bedrock of any functioning immigration system and proposes functional, operational, and structural reforms to strengthen America’s border infrastructure and laws. Second, it creates a new merit-based legal immigration system that protects American wages and safety net programs, prioritizes immediate families, and creates a fair and transparent process for immigration to America.

Javol. But it's like anything y'all do. Cutting fraud, waste, and abuse from Medicaid means many worthy people get tossed off medicaid and you'll pretend it's only waste because being cruel just doesn't go over well - but parts of MAGA like the cruelty, they just pretend it's all black and brown people.

What is "merit" in the NEW merit based system? Do ya mean the Einstein visa that Melania got? I think you mean white western Europeans have merit - or something like that. Software programmers who'll work for less? Investing 5 million or more? Large net worth? Someone to take Barron's exams for him?

Javol. But it's like anything y'all do.

You can't even do the GermanNaziHitler thing right. If you're going to waste the board's time with this, at least make the effort to spell it correctly.

Do ya mean the Einstein visa that Melania got?

You'll have to ask Trump. But let's see...she speaks how many languages and has generated how much wealth via small business ownership?

Why do you hate women entrepreneurs so much?

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