Halls of Shrewd'm / US Policy
No. of Recommendations: 2
WTF.
Hegseth Orders Warships and Planes to Latin America, a Major Escalation
The announcement came after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said the military had killed six aboard a 10th boat that he asserted was carrying drugs.
Hegseth can't wait to play with his toys.
No. of Recommendations: 17
The announcement came after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said the military had killed six aboard a 10th boat that he asserted was carrying drugs. Hegseth can't wait to play with his toys.
Murder. Straight up murder. I know these boats and 'the drill.'
Some boats have been crowded, suggesting they could have been moving migrants as well as drugs. Some of the people on the boats have been from multiple countries, not just Venezuela, contradicting the administration’s assertions that officials knew all about the smuggling operations.
As I posted earlier, boat driver and crew have no choice but to do the cartel's bidding. Coyotes put paying customers on those boats to help offload cargo and, if beached, spin the boat to return home. If it's low on fuel or the boat gets swamped landing, they abandon the boat and everybody scatters.
Killing them means they are knowingly killing non-cartel civilians. The new America. As we treat the world, so shall they treat Americans.
No. of Recommendations: 3
The announcement came after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said the military had killed six aboard a 10th boat that he asserted was carrying drugs. Hegseth can't wait to play with his toys.
Murder. Straight up murder. I know these boats and 'the drill.'
Yes, no one likes to talk about plomo o plata, the old either - or. T dealt with Venezuela in his first term and it went nowhere, but there were discussions of invading, including going in via Colombia, among everything else. I have a lot of questions, because it looks like Maduro steps down, but nothing changes.
No. of Recommendations: 4
Killing them means they are knowingly killing non-cartel civilians. = sano
You have no way of knowing this. I agree the admin could produce more evidence, eg recovered cargo, but still you have no way of knowing.
I have done a lot of off shore fishing since moving to Texas 30 plus years ago, have seen thousands of off shore and bay boats in the marinas in Galveston and Matagorda and in Venice Louisiana. I can tell you the boats being shown on the video are not fishing boats. There is no visible rigging, fishing rods or other tackle, or outriggers, nets, life jackets, bait wells, or anything typical of a boat outfitted for fishing. Boats I see in the marina are usually two engines and sometimes rarely three. I can't say I have ever seen four engine set ups and no submarines for sure. It is easy to conclude these guys are not fisherman, their boats are more suited for Amazon deliveries.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
The Ford, and it's five DDs are in, or near, the Med currently. A new storm spun up over the last couple days, so ops need to wait for it to clear the area. The official end of the hurricane season is November 30.
U.S. deploys aircraft carrier to waters off South America in major military escalation
The USS Ford, which has five destroyers in its strike group, is now deployed to the Mediterranean Sea. One of its destroyers is in the Arabian Sea and another is in the Red Sea, a person familiar with the operation told The Associated Press. As of Friday, the aircraft carrier was in port in Croatia on the Adriatic Sea.https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-deploys-ai...Bush Sr invaded Panama on December 20, well clear of hurricane season.
Saint Reagan invaded Grenada on October 25, still in hurricane season, but he had to get the attack on the USMC barracks in Beirut, October 23rd, off the front page.
Hegseth can't wait to play with his toys. His nibs wants to start making loot off of controlling Venezuelan oil.
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 16
You have no way of knowing this. I agree the admin could produce more evidence, eg recovered cargo, but still you have no way of knowing.
And neither do you (nor, likely, the administration). That's why we have this thing called "due process". As mentioned elsewhere, they should be seized and processed. Until that happens, we have no idea if they're marlin fishing or drug running (or, maybe, both?). Without due process, the government is murdering people. Due process makes all the difference between punishment and murder.
No. of Recommendations: 4
And neither do you (nor, likely, the administration). = 1pg
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We elect a president who has access to classified intelligence to make these kinds of judgements against foreign adversaries,
"Barack Obama significantly expanded the U.S. drone strike program during his presidency, overseeing around 563 strikes primarily in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. This approach aimed to target terrorist threats while minimizing American military casualties, but it also raised concerns about civilian casualties and the ethical implications of targeted killings."
I had no problem with Obama authorizing these strikes without a trial or court order either.
What we have been doing is not working. "No more half measures"... Mike Ehrmantraut
No. of Recommendations: 4
You have no way of knowing this. I agree the admin could produce more evidence, eg recovered cargo, but still you have no way of knowing.
Come on, Mike. You know damned well how many people go out fishing on mini submarines.
It’s totally a common thing to do.
No. of Recommendations: 8
We elect a president who has access to classified intelligence to make these kinds of judgements against foreign adversaries,
..."yellowcake letter"...."uranium enrichment centrifuge parts"...."mobile bio-weapons labs"...."Prague meeting"...
Yeah, really top notch "intelligence". Probably more of "I want to invade this country. Twist the information you have to support the invasion, and bury the evidence you have that does not support invasion".
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 14
Come on, Mike. You know damned well how many people go out fishing on mini submarines.
This is true. Also true, neither of the survivors was from Venezuela. Also true, neither of the survivors was allowed to say anything in public before they where whisked back where they came from.
If the survivors had anything to say that supported the regime's case, why weren't they trotted out in public to say so?
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 13
You have no way of knowing this. I agree the admin could produce more evidence, eg recovered cargo, but still you have no way of knowing. Just as onepoorguy knows physics, salvors know recreational vessels and commercial vessels. We rescue guys like you a hundred times a week.
From PWCs to single to super pangas to plush yachts, power and sail, we know as much and often more about watercraft as the builders, surveyors and brokers who use our services. We have to know.
The flood of traffic from Mexico fell in our laps. We worked for Operation Stonegarden 24/7/365. Our guys in the Keys see even more of the same shit we see. Traffickers didn't stop carrying mixed loads when Stonegarden was formed, or when Trump started killing. Cartels don't care. Hell, they've dumped people overboard to save on fuel, dumped people on outer islands telling them it's the mainland. Losing cargo, boats and lives is a cost of doing business. As long as there's money to be made there will be criminals like Trump who will do what it takes to make it.
It's a miserable situation.
I'm not going to belabor the point...
Just Google "panga san diego" and start walking back through the years.
https://archive.smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/pang...
No. of Recommendations: 2
No. of Recommendations: 4
I had no problem with Obama authorizing these strikes without a trial or court order either.
But there was actually a due process to these. It wasn't the full-blown Constitutional due process, but it wasn't POTUS (or some colonel in a bunker in Nevada) saying "get 'em". There was a review process, however brief. And, yes, I wasn't entirely comfortable with that, either. But that's another thread.
No. of Recommendations: 7
"No more half measures"... Mike Ehrmantraut
Are you quoting Breaking Bad about Trump on Venezuela? Perfect. Trump's a gang lord now and the US Military is a gang. Do we get skull and cross bones tattoos too?
No. of Recommendations: 7
We elect a president who has access to classified intelligence to make these kinds of judgements against foreign adversaries,
You've elected a President that disregards all norms unless they help him, and has contempt for those who do follow the norms. There isn't an emergency with Venezuela, no threat to any Americans, and the emergency on human rights allows only sanctions. However, blowing up boats with people we don't on them is a human rights violation, so what does that make us? Petro has stated the Colombian was stopped in the ocean, sending a distress signal with his engine raised up when we blew him up. Do we have anything that shows that is unlikely?
It would be nice to show some drugs. If we know where they are enough to blow them up, then why can't we stop a couple and show the drugs? Mkae it more believable. You leave us wide open to criticism and being called murderers, and just think how much you could pwn the libs if you did that.
No. of Recommendations: 3
If the survivors had anything to say that supported the regime's case, why weren't they trotted out in public to say so?
Because it’s totally a conspiracy to murder more people in Latin America.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Because it’s totally a conspiracy to murder more people in Latin America.
We both know that, in Trump's eyes, the people being killed are expendable meat. There is no answer to why those captured were not put on public display, if they would back up Trump's claims wrt Venezuela.
Remember what Dr Strangelove said? "the whole point of a doomsday weapon is lost, if you keep it a secret. Why didn't you tell the world?" Indeed, Lord Trump. Why did you keep what those men knew a secret?
Steve...HBTT
No. of Recommendations: 2
There is no answer to why those captured were not put on public display, if they would back up Trump's claims wrt Venezuela.
…other than it’s how the US has done business with captured
Drug people in the last - we send them to their home countries.
No. of Recommendations: 14
"We elect a president who has access to classified intelligence to make these kinds of judgements against foreign adversaries,
"Barack Obama significantly expanded the U.S. drone strike program during his presidency, overseeing around 563 strikes primarily in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. This approach aimed to target terrorist threats while minimizing American military casualties, but it also raised concerns about civilian casualties and the ethical implications of targeted killings."
I had no problem with Obama authorizing these strikes without a trial or court order either." - BHM
I was waiting for a Trump cultist to make this false comparison to the Bush/Obama drone strikes.
It is a false comparison for at least a few reasons:
For one, it was congress who authorized the drone strikes on terrorists when they voted to justify the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq in order to kill terrorists and other non-sovereign, non-uniformed combatants. Blowing up boats in the Caribbean carrying drugs would not fall under that authorization. At best you can twist words to make an absurd case that justifies this, but it would still be absurd and clearly not what congress was voting for when they authorized the use of force on non-sovereign, non-uniformed terrorists in the War on Terror. Drug runners are not terrorists. Pure and simple. It is quite telling that Trump has to misuse words and twist their meanings in order to even absurdly justify this.
For two, those targeted for drone strikes were directly responsible for actions that had already directly and clearly harmed Americans. The drone targets had either directly worked on terrorist plots to directly harm Americans or were in organizations that were repeatedly and directly firing weapons at American soldiers. The organizations that Trump is using the military against are at best only indirectly harming Americans. Yes, drugs are bad Nancy Reagan, but we do not allow police officers to shoot a person just because they are carrying drugs. Law enforcement can only use force if there is a direct threat to another person. Otherwise Trump could blow up a snack cake factory in Mexico because fatty snack cakes are indirectly causing Americans harm through heart disease. Even you Mike are not stupid enough to try and justify that (though you never fail to surprise me).
For three, congress was generally kept appraised of how the target of those drone strikes were determined. Maybe only generally and not specifically, but at least a few select members of both parties in congress were briefed on who was making the decisions on when and where to fire from drones and what thresholds they were using to insure the targets were who the targeter thought they were and what they had done. So far, the Trump administration has not briefed anyone in congress at all.
No. of Recommendations: 7
I had no problem with Obama authorizing these strikes without a trial or court order either." - BHM
That isn't the question, Mike. Now that you know there was congressional approval of O's strikes, and no congressional approval for T's strikes. do you have a different opinion now? Or are you going to defend murder on the high seas by T? It's only one more small step to justifying murder by the President in the USA. That's where your headed. Think about it. Antifa are terrorists aren't they? And Democrats surely are terrorists especially as they approach the voting booth.
No. of Recommendations: 1
*you're
I'm getting old
No. of Recommendations: 4
That isn't the question, Mike. Now that you know there was congressional approval of O's strikes, and no congressional approval for T's strikes. do you have a different opinion now?
No.
Or are you going to defend murder on the high seas by T?
Not Murder when the target is a narco terrorist in the process of executing his mission to poison Americans.
It's only one more small step to justifying murder by the President in the USA.
No, that is a huge and unacceptable step.
That's where your headed.
No, that is here your chain of speculation is headed. Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from. I have every confidence that the American citizens would put a stop to it long before it reaches that point.
Think about it. Antifa are terrorists aren't they? And Democrats surely are terrorists especially as they approach the voting booth.
Being a terrorist does not require a membership in Antifa, that is if Antifa even exists. Most Democrats, indeed most sane people in general, are NOT terrorists. They are regular Americans just living their life, raising their family, and trying to live in peace with their neighbors.
Many Democrats have vastly different ideas about politics and the way forward for our country. They understand their political opponents are misguided but also their political opponents are not evil. The vast vast majority are not driven to violence when they don't get their way.
(spare me the J6 whataboutism, there have been 100x as many blm and antifa and anti ice riots by people who didn't get their way at the ballot box.)
No. of Recommendations: 9
…other than it’s how the US has done business with captured
Drug people in the last - we send them to their home countries.
Remember the run up to Bush's invasion of Iraq? Bush demanded Iraq get rid of it's WMDs. Iraq delivered a pile of documents showing they had destroyed all their WMDs. "not good enough" Bush bellowed. Iraq allowed UN inspectors in. The inspectors reported good cooperation by Iraqi officials, and they didn't find anything. "he's hiding them" Bush bawled. Of course, you can't prove a negative. You can't bring weapons out of hiding, that don't exist. So Bush used that as his excuse, because he wanted to invade.
If those survivors would advance Trump's case, they would have been trotted out in public. Nope. Hustled out of sight in a hurry, just as you would expect, with anything else that did not fit Trump's narrative.
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 21
"Not Murder when the target is a narco terrorist in the process of executing his mission to poison Americans." - BHM
So much wrong with your post here.
1. How do you know who is on those boats? You are just gullibly accepting the word of an administration that has demonstrably lied many times. You are just yet again proving my repeated point that you don't want information. You just want your world view reinforced. You are more than willing to use sources that lie to you and make you look like an idiot if those sources reinforce your opinion.
2. In what way are the people on those boats terrorists by any reasonable meaning of the word? The fact that you are willing to look like an idiot by intentionally misusing words and twisting their meanings, says a lot about you and your arguments.
And before you answer that they are "terrorists" because they are poisoning Americans, just realize the path you are sending us down. The Murdachs are "terrorists" because they regularly use their media outlets to poison the mind of Americans. Heck, you are a "terrorist" because you regularly spread misinformation and poison the mind of others. See how much fun we can all have when you misuse and twist words into something they are not? And before you stupidly go there, please recognize that I fully understand that it is highly likely that MOST of the people on those boats are drug runners, illegally transporting drugs to the U.S. (or other places). However, the penalty for transporting drugs is not death.
You have repeatedly demonstrated you do not care about rule of law or due process. Why do you hate the Constitution and America?
No. of Recommendations: 15
That isn't the question, Mike. Now that you know there was congressional approval of O's strikes, and no congressional approval for T's strikes. do you have a different opinion now?
No.
So you're doubling down on eliminating "due process" rights and jumping straight to the execution.
Or are you going to defend murder on the high seas by T?
Not Murder when the target is a narco terrorist in the process of executing his mission to poison Americans.
OIC, use of the word "terrorist" excuses murder, even though there isn't any proof of what they were and Petro says one was stopped and giving a distress signal. You've now applied your weasel word "terrorist" to Antifa, making them the "other", so in addition to killing people you've never seen in the Caribe, you're prepping for the USA, or is it to the dungeons with them?
It's only one more small step to justifying murder by the President in the USA.
No, that is a huge and unacceptable step.
You are there Mike - make up your mind. That's the next step - are you in or out?
No, that is here your chain of speculation is headed. Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from. I have every confidence that the American citizens would put a stop to it long before it reaches that point.
I don't have confidence because I see you compromising basic human rights and instigating war in the Caribe. There is no effort made to assure us that all the people killed actually are part of drug gangs and operations, which is flimsy to me, and should be to you. Make an effort or be damned.
Think about it. Antifa are terrorists aren't they? And Democrats surely are terrorists especially as they approach the voting booth.
Being a terrorist does not require a membership in Antifa, that is if Antifa even exists. Most Democrats, indeed most sane people in general, are NOT terrorists. They are regular Americans just living their life, raising their family, and trying to live in peace with their neighbors.
Sorry, your overlord calls Antifa terrorists and wants them designated as both foreign and domestic terrorists. First you dehumanize them, then you go after them, then you imprison them or kill them. The move to designate them takes it out of rhetoric to something more sinister.
Many Democrats have vastly different ideas about politics and the way forward for our country. They understand their political opponents are misguided but also their political opponents are not evil. The vast vast majority are not driven to violence when they don't get their way.
(spare me the J6 whataboutism, there have been 100x as many blm and antifa and anti ice riots by people who didn't get their way at the ballot box.)
And spare us your rationalizations for everything Trump does against the Constitution, basic human rights, while using quotes from Breaking Bad.
BLM rioted over George Floyd, not the ballot box. Antifa is anti fascist MAGA, not the ballot box. ICE protests are not about the ballot box.
You brought it up so - MAGA rioted and tried to change the results of an election by treasonous insurrection in the normal meaning of those words.
No. of Recommendations: 3
It's only one more small step to justifying murder by the President in the USA.
Obama droned American citizens and you had zero problem with it.
No. of Recommendations: 17
Obama droned American citizens and you had zero problem with it.
An American citizen who had literally declared war on the United States, was a literal leader of al-Qaeda, was planning literal terrorist strikes against America, and was hiding in the hills of Yemen- beyond the reach of American jurisprudence.
Your comparison is horseshit.
No. of Recommendations: 10
You have no way of knowing this.
And you trust this government to tell the truth about what it’s doing? If it was interested in persuading the American public about what it’s doing, the government would provide at least one scintilla of verifiable evidence to support its claim.
Where is that scintilla of verifiable evidence.
So far, all we’ve been given is the foghorn blast of Propaganda.
No. of Recommendations: 4
An American citizen who had literally declared war on the United States,
And yet the American citizen has Constitutional rights, More Horseshit. Or did you in your righteous indignation - and declaration of allegiance to the rules of law like all good little libbies claim - forget that?
Yeah, yo didn’t. Your outrage is selective. And hypocritically boring.
No. of Recommendations: 4
Where is that scintilla of verifiable evidence.
Say, More Horseshit - when you take out the 2 man submersible to go out and fish do you open up the hatch underwater? Asking for a friend.
No. of Recommendations: 6
And yet the American citizen has Constitutional rights,
From whence comes this sudden interest in the Constitutional rights of those who find themselves in the crosshairs of a government strike?
Let’s play a game:
Here’s the scenario…
A US citizen with aforementioned Constitutional rights has just murdered someone and has barricaded himself on the top floor of a building and continues to take pot shots at passersby, in spite of entreaties by the police to surrender.
Question: are the police justified in giving a sniper the go ahead to shoot him?
If your answer is “yes”, then why do you think the government was wrong to take out a US citizen member of Al Qaeda, planning terrorist operations against the US, while hiding in the mountains of Yemen?
No. of Recommendations: 15
bhm: Not Murder when the target is a narco terrorist in the process of executing his mission to poison Americans.
Simply ignoring laws ? How convenient.
Why isn't Trump ordering summary executions for Russian Americans and Italian Americans that have been running the big heroin distribution syndicates in the USA? It ain't for lack of intelligence gathered by US LEO agencies. They know who the families are.
No. of Recommendations: 3
From whence comes this sudden interest in the Constitutional rights of those who find themselves in the crosshairs of a government strike
I’m not a liberal, More Horseshit. I believe in the constitution.
You believe in rights for every but US citizens, it seems.
No. of Recommendations: 10
You believe in rights for every but US citizens, it seems.
Horseshit
No. of Recommendations: 4
Since you just signed your name after quoting me, I’ll count that as agreement. That’s some nice progress, More Horseshit.
