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No, not just the love of fossil fuels and Big Oil - as seen under George W Bush, Barack Millhouse Obama, Donald J Trump, or Joe Robinette Biden or even Kamala Harris - who was the last one in the room with Biden for most things.


The PATRIOT ACT.

George W Bush's policy.

Back then the Liberals only knew Bush hate- kinda like TrumpHate today. And remember? "My Rights~" "My Liberties!" "I fought for those rights!" "my liberties!" "privacy". "what kind of country do we want to be". "Giving up liberty for security deserves neither!"

Barack Obama - 8 years.

Joe Biden - 4 years.

In between that was Hillary's candidacy - no anti Patriot act. Ditto now, Kamala Harris - has nothing to say about the Patriot Act.

So, here's to the nation rallying around President George W Bush yet again. The Patriot Act, even after 12 years of Democrat Presidencies - is indeed the law of the land.

The Patriot Act, even after 12 years of Democrat Presidencies - is indeed the law of the land.

Yes. We keep trying to tell conservatives that the Democratic Party isn't primarily a bunch of wild-eyed zealots intent on inflicting a maximally progressive Marxist/socialist state on the American people....but instead largely a typical center-left party where a desire to use the power of government to improve people's lives is mixed with a healthy respect for other priorities.

For some reason, you keep being surprised to find that even when Democrats assume power, they generally implement policies that while left of center, aren't the wish list of the far left.

...but instead largely a typical center-left party where a desire to use the power of government to improve people's lives is mixed with a healthy respect for other priorities.

Oh, my.
You REALLY need to spend some quality time in a wild-eyed, ban natural gas, defund the police blue state.

Florida has spoiled you, my man.

Yes. We keep trying to tell conservatives that the Democratic Party isn't primarily a bunch of wild-eyed zealots intent on inflicting a maximally progressive Marxist/socialist state on the American people....but instead largely a typical center-left party where a desire to use the power of government to improve people's lives is mixed with a healthy respect for other priorities.

For some reason, you keep being surprised to find that even when Democrats assume power, they generally implement policies that while left of center, aren't the wish list of the far left.
***********



Just pointing out that the loudest TMF Liberal voices, and even more mainstream voices - came around to George W Bush.

I didn't talk about Marxism nor Socialism.

I simply spoke about this tiny thing they used to shout about "civil liberties!" "rights".

And they've realized it was good.

"Aw Shucks, many of them were for it" Really? How many Liberals on TMF came out in support of the Wiretaps, Patriot Act, No Fly lists on TMF during the Bush years? I can't remember one.... but hey, some are here! Prove me wrong! "I totally supported President Bush on the wiretaps and Patriot Act." and I apologize in advance.

You REALLY need to spend some quality time in a wild-eyed, ban natural gas, defund the police blue state.

Why? I don't deny that there are pockets of bright sapphire where the local folks are more wild-eyed zealots. I'm sure the People's Republic of Berkeley (to name one example) is very different from still very blue, but not wild-eyed, Miami-Dade County.

But Jedi was talking about the federal Patriot Act - and most of his diatribes against 401(K) Liberals involve national or federal issues as well. The national party isn't as liberal as the most liberal local politicians - any more than the national GOP is going to be as conservative as the most conservative enclaves.

The party is a coalition - and like any coalition, it has factions within it that have different views. The overall party is far more centrist than its most left-wing members. For some reason, Jedi is either himself surprised, or thinks we will be surprised, to find out this is the case.

Again I say....

Many Liberals from TMF are here.

Please, prove me wrong.

"I supported the Patriot Act, Wiretaps, No Fly Lists when George W Bush was President. It was good policy then, and it is to this day"

Dope1: You REALLY need to spend some quality time in a wild-eyed, ban natural gas, defund the police blue state.

The only place we would find such a state is in your imagination.

Why? I don't deny that there are pockets of bright sapphire where the local folks are more wild-eyed zealots. I'm sure the People's Republic of Berkeley (to name one example) is very different from still very blue, but not wild-eyed, Miami-Dade County.

California would work. CA politics resemble Washington State's: Coastal left wing progressives dominate the legislature and governor's offices, while the interior of the state is actually somewhat red.

You said that national democrats are "center left". I don't think you have enough experience with the outer reaches of your party, what they value, and what life under their regimes is like.

But Jedi was talking about the federal Patriot Act - and most of his diatribes against 401(K) Liberals involve national or federal issues as well. The national party isn't as liberal as the most liberal local politicians - any more than the national GOP is going to be as conservative as the most conservative enclaves.

Sure about that?
The national party is running a candidate who
-Supports bans or restrictions on fossil fuels (despite what she says now)
-Is pro-criminal (despite what she says now)
-Is Pro-open borders (despite what she says now)
-etc.

Harris and the national democrats are merely tacking to the center for purposes of the election; even Bernie Sanders admits that.

As far as the Patriot Act, I recall quite clearly how PA left wingers were AGHAST that Bush43 wanted to spy on foreign terrorists. That seems to have gone away.

"I supported the Patriot Act, Wiretaps, No Fly Lists when George W Bush was President. It was good policy then, and it is to this day"

I'll answer:

They hated the Patriot Act back then when Bush43 wanted to use it to go after terrorists.
Now that democrats know they can use it go after Republicans...they're whistling a different tune.

The only place we would find such a state is in your imagination.

Sorry, ChatNPC. I realize that you're not a real person and aren't really alive, but out here in the world that isn't your bad AI programming there are democrats who want to do everything I said.

The party is a coalition - and like any coalition, it has factions within it that have different views. The overall party is far more centrist than its most left-wing members. For some reason, Jedi is either himself surprised, or thinks we will be surprised, to find out this is the case.

This.

You said that national democrats are "center left". I don't think you have enough experience with the outer reaches of your party, what they value, and what life under their regimes is like.

I've spent some time in the far hinterlands of the party....but again, that's not really germane to the discussion. Life under their "regime" isn't any more indicative of where the national party is than what life under the most conservative small rural Bible Belt town is compared to the national GOP. Because the national party isn't going to be as extreme as its most extreme elements. That's just the nature of a political coalition.

Sure about that?
The national party is running a candidate who
-Supports bans or restrictions on fossil fuels (despite what she says now)
-Is pro-criminal (despite what she says now)
-Is Pro-open borders (despite what she says now)

Oh, sure, the national party is running a candidate that has taken liberal positions. But there's a reason why the national party hasn't banned fossil fuels - or even significantly restricted them, preferring to instead subsidize alternatives. The national party hasn't adopted "pro-criminal" measures, or "pro-open border" measures. The Green New Deal, defund the police, and decriminalization of border crossings all were floated by the progressive wing, and they all died when they ran into the shoals of the national coalition.

Because there's lots of less progressive Democrats that want no part of that. They'll support the national candidate while she's running for office - just like there's lots of budget hawk Republicans that will support Trump regardless of his nonsensical ideas for handing out exemptions from income tax left and right - but that doesn't mean they'll have any truck with the actual policies if a proposal ever made it to the hill.

You can't look at the most extreme politicians to get a sense of where the party as a whole is.

The national party is running a candidate who
-Supports bans or restrictions on fossil fuels (despite what she says now)
-Is pro-criminal (despite what she says now)
-Is Pro-open borders (despite what she says now)
-etc.

Why of course! Don’t listen to what she says in terms of where she is, where she thinks the country is and what she thinks is possible.

She is, after all, a commie, Marxist, fascist anti-Christ being directed by her pimp daddy. And on top of that, she’s drunk all the time.

Hee hee.

Now Dope, don't be hard on the Right Honorable poster.

He posted a study by the New York Times about how "American workers" feel about inflation and prices and why they feel the way they do.

Anybody who is willing to look for a study on how people alien to them and their bubble feel about certain issues- shows open mindedness.

They hated the Patriot Act back then when Bush43 wanted to use it to go after terrorists.
Now that democrats know they can use it go after Republicans...they're whistling a different tune.
****

And President Obama was able to use to protect America against Sheeple Scouts. (Terrorists to you and me. Freedom Fighters to me, if France is their destination)

I'm just pointing out that on this vital issue, TMF Liberals faked outrage. And now, they've bowed to President Bush on this issue.

Remember? "Hitler!' "Nazi!" all that stuff.

It was their usual playbook.

But. President Bush - won.

The party is a coalition - and like any coalition, it has factions within it that have different views. The overall party is far more centrist than its most left-wing members. For some reason, Jedi is either himself surprised, or thinks we will be surprised, to find out this is the case.

This.
*****


Yet a few idiots saying they are Nazis art Trump's parade - somehow represent all Trump supporters. "We" are not allowed to be some coalition such as that.

But hey, "I Wzambon on TMF in the Bush years, fully supported George W Bush on the Patriot ACT, wiretaps, FISA workarounds and I totally disagreed with the Liberals in my coalition who loudly opposed it".

Cool! I agree with your point of view wzambon, and as a fellow supporter of President George W Bush's anti-terror policies, I was an admin in fully agreement with you.

Here's to agreement in these polarized times.

But there's a reason why the national party hasn't banned fossil fuels - or even significantly restricted them, preferring to instead subsidize alternatives. The national party hasn't adopted "pro-criminal" measures, or "pro-open border" measures. The Green New Deal, defund the police, and decriminalization of border crossings all were floated by the progressive wing, and they all died when they ran into the shoals of the national coalition.

Well, the reason why they haven't enacted what they want is because they can't get it formally into Congress.

Take immigration and open borders. Harris likes to talk about how within days they offered up an immigration bill but what she neglects to mention is that first bill was about amnesty. Then also within literally hours of assuming the Presidency Biden unwound almost all of Trump's border EOs and the rush was on. Couple all that with their catch and release programs + the wink-and-a-nod-claim-amnesty business we've had a wide open southern border ever since.

So the democrats in effect got exactly what the left wing of their party wanted, albeit absent the Official Stamp of Congressional Legislative Approval.

You can't look at the most extreme politicians to get a sense of where the party as a whole is.

That's the rub: yesterday's extreme progressive is now today's mainstream democrat. The far left of the democrat party would have been unthinkable 15 years ago.

There's a reason why people like Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, Tulsi Gabbard and RFK are all out there campaigning for Trump.

Why of course! Don’t listen to what she says in terms of where she is,

Which version of Harris? I understand you're trying to be clever here, but what you forgot is that Candidate for President Harris is literally flip-flopping in real time.

Or are you gullible enough to believe that she's the real defender of the 2nd Amendment in this race?

Yet a few idiots saying they are Nazis art Trump's parade - somehow represent all Trump supporters. "We" are not allowed to be some coalition such as that.

But hey, "I Wzambon on TMF in the Bush years, fully supported George W Bush on the Patriot ACT, wiretaps, FISA workarounds and I totally disagreed with the Liberals in my coalition who loudly opposed it".

Cool! I agree with your point of view wzambon, and as a fellow supporter of President George W Bush's anti-terror policies, I was an admin in fully agreement with you.

Closer. At least you got my name right.

Yet a few idiots saying they are Nazis art Trump's parade - somehow represent all Trump supporters. "We" are not allowed to be some coalition such as that.

And this...is the master class of debate jiu-jitsu. Well done, my friend!

Finish him with a triangle choke. In a figurative sense, of course :).

But hey, "I Wzambon on TMF in the Bush years, fully supported George W Bush on the Patriot ACT, wiretaps, FISA workarounds and I totally disagreed with the Liberals in my coalition who loudly opposed it".

Cool! I agree with your point of view wzambon, and as a fellow supporter of President George W Bush's anti-terror policies, I was an admin in fully agreement with you.

Closer. At least you got my name right.
************

I guess wzambon is from that *different* part of the coalition.

The part that is being told what to do by Trump and Bush on:

Patriot Act
Wiretaps
FISA
No Fly Lists
Immigration
Fracking
Drilling

Demoted back to Sheeple - natural habitat. Servant of George W Bush and Donald Trump.

Figurative of course! The violence is best saved for those in better shape, and those with the desire - like Sheeple Scouts from Hamburg to Sweden to Paris to Austin.

See? I talked about a major policy issue when it was said that Righties are mad that some of their issues didn't make national stage.

I simply said that TMF liberals cried Hitler and all sorts of stuff at Bush's anti-terror laws.

Then I begged them to just say "I supported the Patriot Act and Wiretaps under President Bush"

Reasonable request.

Gutless wonder - can't do it.

Why? Back then Sheeple's masters were ordering him to be against the W Bush stuff.

Yet, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, KAMALA HARRIS - all are with W Bush on this one.

And many others that I listed.

When Sheeple wants to go personal - I'll drive him to meltdowns over and over again.

Policy? Just listed multiple policies that Sheeple and ALL TMF Liberals were against and apologized in advance if they told me otherwise.

Crickets.

Oh, and one baaaaaa

Sure about that?
The national party is running a candidate who
-Supports bans or restrictions on fossil fuels (despite what she says now)
-Is pro-criminal (despite what she says now)
-Is Pro-open borders (despite what she says now)
-etc.

Another man who thinks he knows what a woman believes more than the woman herself.

Good luck with that.

Another man who thinks he knows what a woman believes more than the woman herself.

Good luck with that.
****

Kinda like when 401K'ers want to dismiss and lecture.

How does that work out?

Oh, yeah, 1/6 - oh yeah, trump 2016. Oh , yeah, MAGA all over the world. Oh, yeah, maybe a 2% victory - for the privilege of going BushCheney on so many issues.


KAMALA HARRIS - is BushTrump on oil and fracking. BushTrump on civil liberties. BushTrump on Medicare for all. She's Trump on immigration - she's way far right of Bush on immigration. Did you ever think you people - and the Sheeple - would be to the RIGHT of President George W Bush on something tiny like immigration?

LOL. -

You forgot to yell YASSS QWEEEN. That would have shown me.

PS. You guys aren’t even trying.

The overall party is far more centrist than its most left-wing members. For some reason, Jedi is either himself surprised, or thinks we will be surprised, to find out this is the case.

I suspect Jedi thinks neither of these. He let his facade slip just a bit in the last day or two, and showed his rational thinking side.

My guess is that Jedi simply likes to provoke people with his posts to get a reaction. I have no idea why he would do that, other than he might think it's fun.

I've posited before that there are two kinds of Trump supporters - the truly dumb and the deliberately blind. Dope is the truly dumb. He's been fooled and doesn't know it. Jedi is the second kind. He knows exactly who Trump is and just likes playing dumb to watch people squirm and dance.

--Peter

Yes. We keep trying to tell conservatives that the Democratic Party isn't primarily a bunch of wild-eyed zealots intent on inflicting a maximally progressive Marxist/socialist state on the American people.

Ues, the communist Party is spent in the USA, it has maybe about 3-5k members, mostly old. I met one fellow who'd been a member for four months, but he quit because you had to believe exactly like they did, dogma. There;s much more people in the progressive area and the new social democrats are welcome. That movement never was part of the radical communist revolutionary and thought socialism could be brought about by democratic means, Nowadays most of them believe in the blend of capitalism and socialism that works so well in the Scandinavian countries.

I however consider myself center-left. You'll find me willing to limit the number of refugees coming in every year and willing to compromise there. I think we can do better on health care and Obamacare was a good start. We should go for univer3sal healthcare. We aren't going to be top dog all the time and need to make and keep alliances for protection and trade - isolationism won't work. We are much better off if we don't dictate, just influence.

I've posited before that there are two kinds of Trump supporters - the truly dumb and the deliberately blind. Dope is the truly dumb. He's been fooled and doesn't know it. Jedi is the second kind. He knows exactly who Trump is and just likes playing dumb to watch people squirm and dance.

Both types relish the attention as do the geeks at the carnival "3 balls for a buck"dunk tank bench.

They measure their success on their ability to make a poster 'buy 3 more balls.'

They'll say anything to keep you buying balls.

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