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Author: LurkerMom   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 10:30 AM
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SNIP
“There is a hilarious YouTube video titled What NYC is Now mocking the disgraceful state of the city’s lawless state that is now a haven for criminals.

The video may be in fun, but is sadly based on fact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU4bKah04Ls

SNIP
“Far too many edicts coming from Mayor Eric Adams’ administration are simply mind-boggling. The city has been invaded by illegal immigrants from several countries, and the mayor has ordered that they be sheltered in hotels, schools, and senior residencies, displacing senior veterans and resident citizens. In addition, a pilot program will be giving them $10,000 prepaid debit cards to buy certain items. What?!!”

SNIP
“Needless to say, the recent political judgments against President Donald Trump and his businesses have induced a “get out of NYC asap rampage.” No one wants to do business here if biased judges can officiate over kangaroo court cases against political enemies. Those families who can move are relocating to red states but there are many of us without the resources to do so. There are also many like me who prefer to stay and fight.”

SNIP..Yep, I resemble this next paragraph.

“New York City used to be the greatest city in the world, and as I was born here during its glory years, the very idea that it’s doomed is unacceptable. I believe that everything that is wrong with the city is due to misguided, progressive politics primarily instituted by Democrats. Historically, NYC has thrived under great mayors like Fiorello LaGuardia, John Lindsay, and Rudy Giuliani, all Republicans.”

Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2024/03/i...


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Author: commonone 🐝 HONORARY
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Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 11:15 AM
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LurkerMom: “There is a hilarious YouTube video ... Read more: https://www.americanthinker...

The facts:

You already posted on the debit cards, which we informed you provided $12.50 per person in a test program of 500 families that is expected to save the city $7.2 million annually: https://www.shrewdm.com/MB?pid=912315772&wholeThre...

We also established that new business applications in NY rose 8.1% in 2023, with 51,000 new businesses filing applications to do business there: https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/new-york-stat...

Finally, NY City is one of the safest cities in the country and does not even rank in the top twenty cities with the highest violent crime rates in America: https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings...

But sure, you saw something on YouTube and in American Thinker, rated "Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of conspiracy theories/pseudoscience, use of poor sources, and several failed fact checks."
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Author: bighairymike   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 12:52 PM
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But sure, you saw something on YouTube and in American Thinker, rated "Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of conspiracy theories/pseudoscience, use of poor sources, and several failed fact checks." - CO

-----------------

Good tactics. One sure way to win over voters to your side is to point out how they in a cult that denies the economy is fine, the border is secure, and crime is in retreat.
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Author: EchotaSheeple   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 1:58 PM
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It's not dead, no way. It's the Wall Street place.

BUT - they are getting a bit more of what they deserv

They need to be desegregated. White Liberals need to answer those they impoverish.
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Author: commonone 🐝 HONORARY
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Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 2:11 PM
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bighairymike: Good tactics. One sure way to win over voters to your side is to point out how they in a cult that denies the economy is fine, the border is secure, and crime is in retreat.

Umm, where, exactly, did I write that "the economy is fine, the border is secure, and crime is in retreat?"

And sorry, but LurkerMom's sources are established liars. You, you rarely provide sources, even when quoting others' work.
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Author: LurkerMom   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 3:23 PM
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The facts:

The fact commonone is you missed the whole point of the article.
The article was not comparing New York City to other cities.
The article was comparing New York City of years gone by to its present day.

The Big Apple is rotten.
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Author: bighairymike   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 3:51 PM
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Umm, where, exactly, did I write that "the economy is fine, the border is secure, and crime is in retreat?" - CO

You didn't, you only denied the crime part. Lets review...

LM posted this,

“There is a hilarious YouTube video titled What NYC is Now mocking the disgraceful state of the city’s lawless state that is now a haven for criminals. --- LM

then You dismissed the criminal sentiment in her post the usual way of dismissing her source....

But sure, you saw something on YouTube and in American Thinker, rated "Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of conspiracy theories/pseudoscience, use of poor sources, and several failed fact checks." - CO

My reply was a reminder that there are other realities your side regularly denies in addition to crime, genuine issues regular ol' people can plainly see, eg crime, open border, stresses on family finances.

In fairness, this is analogous to your side not understanding how conservatives cannot see the genuine reality that Trump is Hitler and will set about ending our democracy if given any chance at all. I have heard he may be making up a hit list to give to Seal Team 6.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 4:35 PM
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My reply was a reminder that there are other realities your side regularly denies in addition to crime, genuine issues regular ol' people can plainly see, eg crime, open border, stresses on family finances.

Speaking of De Nile not just being a river in Egypt, perhaps he can riddle us this:

Do healthy cities need to call the National Guard to provide security on public transit?

I'll answer for him: No, they don't.

Here's a linky for him since it's likely he missed this:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/national-guard-n...

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul deployed hundreds of National Guard troops to assist with bag checks across the New York City subway system in the wake of a series of headline-grabbing crimes and elevated subway crime rates—a decision that has divided New Yorkers and public safety advocates.

They even have a name for the operation - "Task Force Empire Shield". Astute viewers will see the brand-new Sig P320's the Guardsmen are carrying in their holsters. Scrolling down further you'll Transit Cops and Guardsmen carrying their M4's.

We didn't used to have to have rifles in public transit hubs in the US. That was something you'd see in Central America. But this is the state of things thanks to Joe Biden and the rest of the Defund the Police/Empower the Criminal democrats.
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Author: EchotaSheeple   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 4:52 PM
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IT'S NOT DEAD.

From my point of view, it's starting to come alive.

50,000 Haitian refugees next.

Oh please.
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Author: albaby1 🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 5:17 PM
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The article was comparing New York City of years gone by to its present day.

Murders per year in NYC under Rudy Giuliani:

1994 1561
1995 1177
1996 983
1997 770
1998 633
1999 671
2000 673
2001 649

Murders in NYC in 2023:

2023 386

I mean, any murder is one murder too many....but seriously? From 1962 through 2006, there wasn't a single year when NYC had less than 500 murders; since 212, there hasn't been a single year when it's been over 500. As someone who lived in New York City in the early nineties, when murders were peaking at close to 2K per year (with a lower population), the idea that today's NYC is uniquely a haven for criminality compared to years gone by is the most absurd revisionist history.


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Author: Boater   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 6:04 PM
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"I mean, any murder is one murder too many....but seriously? From 1962 through 2006, there wasn't a single year when NYC had less than 500 murders; since 212, there hasn't been a single year when it's been over 500. "

Murder is hardly the single only crime being committed in this country's cities. Robbery, carjackings, shoplifting etc are all up even considering many of these lower level crimes are not only not being reported on but are also uninvestigated and/or reported on due to policy and lack of manpower constraints.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 6:33 PM
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1994 1561
1995 1177
1996 983
1997 770
1998 633
1999 671
2000 673
2001 649

Murders in NYC in 2023:

2023 386


Hmmm. Interesting data. Let's look at more recent stuff, so population variances aren't a thing.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/reports-analys...

https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/anal...

They report for murder and non-negligent manslaughter:

2017 - 292
2018 - 295
2019 - 319
2020 - 468
2021 - 488
2022 - 438
2023 - 391

To Boater's point, other crimes are skyrocketing:

Car theft:
2017 - 5676
2018 - 5428
2019 - 5430
2020 - 9037
2021 - 10415
2022 - 13749
2023 - 15795

Robbery:
2017 - 20052
2018 - 20208
2019 - 20698
2020 - 20572
2021 - 22835
2022 - 26063
2023 - 27876

Let's now note 2 key dates:
January 1, 2020: New York's No Cash Bail law goes into effect.
2022- Alvin Bragg takes over as DA

Since 2020 crime has zoomed upwards in NYC. They seem to be getting murder under control but Robbery and car theft are way, way up and are FAR outpacing any population growth that (is not) taking place.





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Author: Boater   😊 😞
Number: of 15053 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 6:42 PM
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"To Boater's point, other crimes are skyrocketing:"

To ignore this is all part of the designed program to Gaslight the low information folks.
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Author: ges 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 6:43 PM
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Hey LurkerMom:

1994 1561
1995 1177
1996 983
1997 770
1998 633
1999 671
2000 673
2001 649

Murders in NYC in 2023:

2023 386

From Albaby1
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 7:02 PM
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To ignore this is all part of the designed program to Gaslight the low information folks.

I've had this debate many, many times with the activists here in Seattle. They use the same playbook: compare today's crime rates to some violent time in the 1970's or the 1990's and then claim that See? It's way better than it was then or Population increases explain any increase in crime. That's assuming they admit there's been any crime increase AT ALL.

At no point does anyone want to lay the blame where it belongs:

*Soft on crime laws
*Defunding the police
*Prosecutors who refuse to prosecute
*Judges who hand down light sentences

The rot in blue cities and states runs through all 3 branches of government.

Fortunately, we here in WA state have the initiative process and if you can get enough citizen signatures, you can get stuff on the ballot. We got enough sigs to have the statewide BAN on most police pursuits overturned and the democrat-led legislature was forced to adopt it. Slowly, very slowly, sanity might be trying to return.
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Author: Boater   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 7:08 PM
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"... compare today's crime rates to some violent time in the 1970's or the 1990's and then claim that See? It's way better than it was then or Population increases explain any increase in crime. That's assuming they admit there's been any crime increase AT ALL."

If they really wanted to be honest about crime stats, which they clearly do not want, they would acknowledge that the majority of robberies are never even reported lest say even investigated. Grocery stores, pharmacies, and big box stores basically have forbidden their employees to either interfere or report crimes even as they are occurring
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Author: commonone 🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 7:24 PM
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Dope1: Let's look at more recent stuff, so population variances aren't a thing.

Why? If anything, way more people -- including all those new-to-the-city criminal migrants -- should equal way more crime; but it's just the opposite.

Plus, you copied the wrong data for "robbery"; you copied "felony assault" instead.

But I believe albaby1's point is that in the Grand Old Days of his honor Giuliani, crime was WAY WORSE.

                   OFFENSE

MURDER & NON-NEGL. MANSLAUGHTER 2000: 673 | 2023: 391

RAPE 2000: 2,068 | 2023: 1,455

ROBBERY 2000: 32,562 | 2023: 16,910

FELONY ASSAULT 2000: 25,924 | 2023: 27,876

BURGLARY 2000: 38,352 | 2023: 13,773

GRAND LARCENY 2000: 49,631 | 2023: 50,586

GRAND LARCENY OF MOTOR VEHICLE 2000: 35,442 | 2023: 15,795

So, murder, rape, robbery, and burglary are significantly less today than in 2000 and auto theft is less than half today than it was in 2000. Felony assault is less than 10% higher today and grand larceny is about the same today as in 2000, a few percent higher.



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Author: Goofyhoofy 🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 7:37 PM
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I've had this debate many, many times with the activists here in Seattle. They use the same playbook: compare today's crime rates to some violent time in the 1970's or the 1990's and then claim that See? It's way better than it was then or Population increases explain any increase in crime. That's assuming they admit there's been any crime increase AT ALL.

At no point does anyone want to lay the blame where it belongs:

*Soft on crime laws
*Defunding the police
*Prosecutors who refuse to prosecute
*Judges who hand down light sentences


It’s so interesting, because I looked at the trend in homicides for Texas, not exactly known as a hotbed of liberalism. Not defunding the police. Not prosecutors who refused to prosecute. Not judges who hand down light sentences. And you know what I found?

 Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) indicates 
a clear trend: firearm-related deaths in Texas have been on the rise for about two
decades, following a decline in the 1990s. In 2021, the state recorded 15 deaths by
firearms per 100,000 people, a stark 50% increase from 1999. This period also saw a
66% rise in firearm-related homicides and a 40% increase in suicides involving firearms.
The last time Texas saw such figures was in 1994.

Mass shootings, such as the one at an Allen outlet mall and the devastating incident
in Uvalde, have tragically highlighted the recent resurgence of gun violence in Texas.
These events have reignited the debate over gun violence and its prevention.


Maybe we should look at crime rates in general? To see which states rank at the top?

Yes, lets:
 

6
Table with 6 columns and 51 rows. Currently displaying rows 1 to 10.
Rank State Violent Crime Rate per 1,000 Residents Property Crime Rate per 1,000 Residents Chances of Becoming a Victim of a Violent Crime Scaled Score
1 New Mexico 7.80 29.84 1/128 100.00
2 Arkansas 6.45 24.52 1/155 95.13
3 Louisiana 6.29 27.48 1/159 94.51
4 Colorado 4.92 31.48 1/203 92.65
5 California 4.99 23.43 1/200 88.92
6 Tennessee 6.22 23.02 1/161 87.37
7 Missouri 4.88 23.40 1/205 84.16
8 South Carolina 4.91 23.08 1/204 84.06
9 Nevada 4.54 23.80 1/220 82.92
10 Alaska 7.59 17.89 1/132 82.71


https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/criminal-defe...

Hmph. Eight out of 10 are red states, presumably tough on crime. Go figure.


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Author: Boater   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 7:49 PM
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"Maybe we should look at crime rates in general? To see which states rank at the top?"

I see that again only the number of violent crimes are being posted, how about posting the statistics on non violent crimes, which to those people victimized by them are violent crimes. Your stats deal with only a small slice of crime in today's America.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 7:57 PM
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If they really wanted to be honest about crime stats, which they clearly do not want, they would acknowledge that the majority of robberies are never even reported lest say even investigated. Grocery stores, pharmacies, and big box stores basically have forbidden their employees to either interfere or report crimes even as they are occurring

And don't forget places like San Francisco, where unless you steal more than $950 it doesn't even count! Crime stats can made to go down when you just define away the offense.

Another dishonest tactic is to try to absolve the very blue cities by posting state-level data, then blaming things on gun freedoms or something (that's also happening in this thread).

The problem is, that argument also goes...POOF!...when you look at city data, where democrat policies take root.

Like...Seattle!
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/seattle/crime

Crime per 1,000 residents:

Seattle:
Violent: 8.19
Property: 57.53 <--- holy cow

Tacoma:
Violent: 15.90
Property: 84.34 <--- holy cow

What about a redder city in Washington?

Bellevue, WA
Violent: 1.51
Property: 36.45 <--- less

Yes. Red v. blue matters. A lot. So what about state data?

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/crime
Washington is slightly below the national median on violent crime, way ABOVE on property crime. Also has double the crime per square mile.










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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 7:58 PM
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I see that again only the number of violent crimes are being posted, how about posting the statistics on non violent crimes, which to those people victimized by them are violent crimes. Your stats deal with only a small slice of crime in today's America.

He's employing the other data hiding trick, which is to schmooo the city level crime (in places overwhelmingly run by democrats) across red states (run by Republicans).

Doesn't work.
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Author: Boater   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 8:00 PM
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"And don't forget places like San Francisco, where unless you steal more than $950 it doesn't even count! Crime stats can made to go down when you just define away the offense."

Exactly, that is why the Gaslighters and the low information folks focus on violent crime/murder as their sole unit of measure to talk about crime statistics.
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Author: LurkerMom   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 8:23 PM
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At no point does anyone want to lay the blame where it belongs:

*Soft on crime laws
*Defunding the police
*Prosecutors who refuse to prosecute
*Judges who hand down light sentences

The rot in blue cities and states runs through all 3 branches of government.


Prosecutors who refuse to prosecute is a big issue in New Your City.
SNIP
“Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg has downgraded a staggering 60 percent of felony cases to lesser charges in the last year, data from his office shows.

The progressive DA reduced 938 of the most serious charged in 2023, 834 of which were brought down to misdemeanors.

Under Bragg, the percentage of felonies downgraded has increased to 60 - up from 53% percent under his predecessor. Bragg's team defended the figures stating the office's performance is on a par with other New York boroughs and higher when it comes to felony convictions.”

Bragg, who campaigned on a promise of criminal justice reform, issued a controversial 'Day One' memo after taking office stating he would only seek prison time in the most severe cases.

It comes amid fury over criminals being allowed to roam the streets of the Big Apple, which continues to be rocked by a violent crime wave.”

Meanwhile victims of crime have also expressed their dissatisfaction with the lack of justice.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13095061/...




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Author: commonone 🐝 HONORARY
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Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 8:35 PM
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Boater: I see that again only the number of violent crimes are being posted, how about posting the statistics on non violent crimes...

Yeah, we'll get right on that.

Sheesh.

I gave you data that show that there are significantly fewer violent crimes across all offenses in New York city today than back in the 'tough on crime' Giuliani days and now you want to shift the goal posts? Well, how about you go find the data... it's your supposition.

Dope1: And don't forget places like San Francisco, where unless you steal more than $950 it doesn't even count! Crime stats can made to go down when you just define away the offense.

Proposition 47 was passed in California in 2014 and reclassified felony theft offenses as misdemeanors. It did not allow shoplifting and petty theft to go unreported or unprosecuted.

You're wrong.

Try again.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360...
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Author: LurkerMom   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 9:19 PM
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Oh, and then there is this in New York City with soft on crime

10 career criminals racked up nearly 500 arrests since NY bail reform began

“A small group of just 10 career criminals was allowed to run amok across the Big Apple and rack up nearly 500 arrests after New York enacted its controversial bail reform law — and most of them are still out on the streets, The Post has learned”

https://nypost.com/2022/08/03/career-criminals-rac...

For example, grand larcenies in the 19th Precinct on the Upper East Side are skyrocketing. Police arrested 43 different individuals a combined 438 times on larceny charges in the 19th Precinct, Chief of Department Kenneth Corey said. Those same 43 suspects have been busted 1,027 times citywide in 2022, he added.

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/suspects-arrested-over...

Bail fail: Study shows that repeat crime INCREASED in New York because of justice ‘reforms’

https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/opinion/bail-fail-st...
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Author: sheila727   😊 😞
Number: of 670 
Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/11/2024 9:41 PM
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Finally, NY City is one of the safest cities in the country ....


And another real positive is that Lurker Mom no longer lives here!
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Author: Goofyhoofy 🐝 HONORARY
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Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/12/2024 9:12 AM
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I see that again only the number of violent crimes are being posted, how about posting the statistics on non violent crimes, which to those people victimized by them are violent crimes. Your stats deal with only a small slice of crime in today's America.

Nope. While I couldn’t get the column headers to align correctly, the 3rd and 4th columns are for “property crimes”, and “your chance of being victim of a property crime”, aka, NOT “violent crimes.”

I apologize for your inability to read further in the data for anything that doesn’t already support your pre-existing view.
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Author: UpNorthJoe 🐝  😊 😞
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Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/12/2024 9:39 AM
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I visited NYC for the first time last September, and it was a very positive experience ! People were friendly, loved Central Park. It was a little overwhelming at times, lots of hustle and bustle, but it probably felt that way because I live in a much smaller area. Did a lot of walking, and used the subway system to get from one end to the other. Really liked hiking thru Manhattan, and had the best pizza I've ever had at a small pizzeria. We also had an early afternoon beer ( pre-rush ), and the bar staff went out of their way to give us tips on things to see and how to get there. And as far as safety, never once felt threatened, and never once had any "sketchy" happenings occur.
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Author: sheila727   😊 😞
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Subject: Re: Is New York City Really Dead?
Date: 03/12/2024 11:55 AM
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I visited NYC for the first time last September, and it was a very positive experience !

So glad that you had such a wonderful time in starting to get to know the city, such a sense of discovery and of consistent kindness from strangers.

Come back again soon. There are so so many neighborhoods to explore. So many remarkable little food gems to discover. And so many lovely people to encounter. So many different languages to overhear. So many individualistic approaches to clothes and hair. So much great music in the streets.

It's not all glorious. Sadness, ugly, and troubled have their relevance. But overall, it's a uniquely wonderful, energy-filled, creative city.
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