Post New

Oh, you insufferable ASS!

“At the request of Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, I am directing Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, to provide all necessary Troops to protect War ravaged Portland, and any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists. I am also authorizing Full Force, if necessary. Thank you for your attention to this matter!”

Statement from Mayor Keith Wilson

“President Trump has directed ‘all necessary Troops’ to Portland, Oregon. The number of necessary troops is zero, in Portland and any other American city. Our nation has a long memory for acts of oppression, and the president will not find lawlessness or violence here unless he plans to perpetrate it. Imagine if the federal government sent hundreds of engineers, or teachers, or outreach workers to Portland, instead of a short, expensive, and fruitless show of force.”

I've seen photos of dozen of the "war weary" forced to stand in line at coffee shops, Antifa shock troops doing yoga in parks, hundreds of Antifa mobile troops on bicycles some with K-9 units, stores with their glass windows unsheltered and their merchandise on the street for sale to anyone. Oh the humanity of it.
Photos and more here.
https://bsky.app/search?q=portland

"unsheltered" was meant to be unshattered. I didn't notice that autocorrect had done its thing.

Joyce Vance White has a more serious take on this topic.
https://joycevance.substack.com/p/the-week-ahead-4...

Before the election, MAGA said their top priorities were lowering "grocery" prices and releasing the Epstein files.
Now MAGA says their top priorities are invading Portland and sending billions of dollars to Argentina.

"Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." ~George Orwell

Is trump listening to and watching Dope's sources?


SNIP During a Sunday morning phone interview with NBC White House Correspondent Yamiche Alcindor, though, Trump made some remarks that seemed to indicate he might be backing off his military plan for Portland.

Trump referenced a weekend conversation with Oregon Gov. Tina Kotek, and he alluded to being told by Kotek that the reality in Portland is different from what's being portrayed to him.

"I spoke to the governor, she was very nice," Trump said. "But I said, 'Well wait a minute, am I watching things on television that are different from what's happening? My people tell me different.' They are literally attacking and there are fires all over the place...it looks like terrible."

Kotek said she told Trump and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Saturday morning that troops are not needed, and she believes Trump does not have the authority to deploy the military to Portland.

"We can manage our own local public safety needs," Kotek said. "There is no insurrection, there is no threat to national security." SNIP

Portland Mayor Keith Wilson said the 'necessary' number of troops needed that Trump referred to in his social media post is "zero."

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/trump-seems...

"We can manage our own local public safety needs," Kotek said.

Then why don't you, governor?

https://x.com/KatieDaviscourt/status/1972537000617...

Whose streets? Their streets.

"We can manage our own local public safety needs," Kotek said.


---------

And what better symbol can there be for peace and harmony than a guillotine?


https://thepostmillennial.com/portland-antifa-brin...

Sep 2, 2025

Portland Antifa brings guillotine to send message to ICE during Labor Day direct action outside ICE facility

Hundreds of protesters gathered outside the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility in Southwest Portland on Monday for a heated anti-ICE Labor Day demonstration. Black clad Antifa militants rolled out a guillotine and torched an American flag, escalating tensions as agitators chanted, "We got the guillotine!"



ICE and Federal Protective Service (FPS) officers, tasked with securing the facility, issued repeated orders for the crowd to vacate restricted areas around the federal building. A loudspeaker announcement warned, "Everyone must leave this restricted area, or may be subject to detention, arrest, or exposure to chemical munitions for failure to depart the restricted area."

When the crowd, many equipped with riot gear and makeshift shields, failed to disperse, federal officers deployed chemical munitions such as pepper balls, smoke grenades, and CS gas to clear the area.

... more on the street fair at the link

what better symbol can there be for peace and harmony than a guillotine?

Spankee is too afraid to go to Portland. 100% effective--and he KNOWS why.

bighairymike: And what better symbol can there be for peace and harmony than a guillotine?

Rather than a symbolic guillotine, they should have erected a fully functional gallows like MAGAts did on the Capitol lawn.

Then they'd get a pardon if arrested, prosecuted, and found guilty.

And Trumpedo would tell them he loved them.

And what better symbol can there be for peace and harmony than a guillotine?

The hangman's scaffold they built at the Jan 6 pic-a-nic while chanting, "Hang Mike Pence?", eh Yogi?

The hangman's scaffold they built at the Jan 6 pic-a-nic while chanting, "Hang Mike Pence?", eh Yogi?

So according to you some instruments of public execution are okay but not others? That's an interesting position to take.

Sept. 4: Fox News airs a report about the Labor Day protest with footage of 2025 protests outside ICE. Mixed in misleadingly are clips from 2020 protests. One shows a federal officer pepper spraying a person in downtown Portland. Another shows protesters burning the base of the Thompson Elk Fountain.

Trump was watching Fox again?

Here's the question I answered, Dope. Is that too abstract for you? Do you need some sleep?

And what better symbol can there be for peace and harmony than a guillotine?

So according to you some instruments of public execution are okay but not others? That's an interesting position to take.

I didn’t hear that at all in what he said.

It was more “Take the log out of your own eye before criticizing the speck in your brother’s eye”.

Or the shortened version: “Hypocrisy much?”

Here's the question I answered, Dope. Is that too abstract for you? Do you need some sleep?

And rather than answer it, you deflected.

Why? Because as a lib, you're not allowed to call out your own side no matter how badly they act.

The above is going to spur a number of "Oh, yeah! Then condemn these 9,000 thing TrumpHitlerNaziNazisomethingsomething". And they'll miss the point.

Portland...it's so easy to make the right call on this one: The locals should be locking up the people that are rioting for 100+ days in a row and throwing away the key. This is easy.

And yet...liberals can't do it.

Portland...it's so easy to make the right call on this one: The locals should be locking up the people that are rioting for 100+ days in a row and throwing away the key. This is easy.

Are there people in Portland who have been engaged in the legally defined crime of rioting under the Oregon penal code for one hundred days in a row?

You can't "lock up" people for engaging in protests that one might metaphorically consider to be "riots." It has to meet the legal definition of the crime.

I didn’t hear that at all in what he said.

Of course. He's invoking the lib shibboleth of Jan6 as what he thinks is your Universal Get Out of Uncomfortable Posts Card. It's a way for board libs to point at 1 day of right wing violence and ignore the literal hundreds of days of left wing violence.

Problem is...argumentatively, that doesn't work.

Some stuff is very easy to get right. Rioting for 100+ days? Making the neighborhood unlivable? Not a one of you would want to live next to the ICE building in Portland and not a one of you would appreciate having to seal up your windows at night because of all the smoke and tear gas. But guess who gets to do that? The people that live there.

But rather than give the 1, super simple, correct answer - "The local authorities are failing miserably at maintaining public order; Gov. Kotek should be moving Heaven and Earth to give those people a break and fix this"...you guys are about dissembling and distracting from the actual issue.

Seriously. It's okay to walk past a pile of liberal sh1t on the carpet and say, "That's a pile of sh1t on the carpet. Let's clean this sh1t up".

Are there people in Portland who have been engaged in the legally defined crime of rioting under the Oregon penal code for one hundred days in a row?

Yes. Does that help? And before you try the trick of posting an millimeter wide definition of "rioting", let me stop you: hahahahahaha.
There are a zillion other things they're doing like violating noise ordinances and destroying property. Pick one of a dozen.

Why's this so hard?

You can't "lock up" people for engaging in protests that one might metaphorically consider to be "riots." It has to meet the legal definition of the crime.

First off, this dog don't hunt. An effective DA would have that place cleared already by enforcing noise and nuisance codes. Not to mention locking people up for Felony Assault on a law enforcement officer.

You know. Like this:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/officers-injured-portla...

Multiple police officers were injured in Portland, Oregon Saturday night during a violent riot at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility.

A mob launched fireworks, smoke grenades and threw rocks at federal law enforcement, as they broke glass and forcibly entered the ICE facility, Homeland Security Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin told Fox News Digital.

Care to note the date on this article? What does the date suggest about the job being done by Portland's city and Oregon's state governments?

Why? Because as a lib, you're not allowed to call out your own side no matter how badly they act.

No deflection, I answered Mike's question. I would think it's much worse to have a guillotine with people shouting, "Off with Mike Pence's head!", than just a guillotine, but maybe that's just me.

Why's this so hard?

Because you typically can't "lock people up and throw away the key" for violating noise ordinances. And you usually can't use noise ordinances or other minor violations pretextually to end protests that you dislike. If they're protesting without engaging in any activity that would normally result in criminal arrests (rather than civil enforcement), it's going to be hard to support an arrest. And of course, Portland has no obligation to prioritize enforcement activities towards minor infractions because the protestors make ICE unhappy. ICE cares about people protesting them, and maybe ICE would look for pretextual violations in order to make the protests go away, but Portland doesn't have to, and it's clearly not their priority to "throw the book" at minor infractions in connection with a protest.

The large crowd that you linked to in that article was dispersed by Portland police. They were driven off using a combination of crowd control measures and arresting individuals that were observed engaging in criminal behavior. Portland officials stopped that group, using fairly standard responses.

The "100 days" folks are a much smaller crowd that's just been protesting in front of the ICE building. Unless those guys have been breaking glass and launching fireworks continuously for the last three months, I think you're getting them confused.

Care to note the date on this article? What does the date suggest about the job being done by Portland's city and Oregon's state governments?

I genuinely am not sure what point you're trying to get at here - what does it suggest? The incident in the article was cleared by Portland PB, so I really don't understand why the June date is significant.

That link referred to Fox News. Was that the same Fox News that paid three-quarters of a billion dollars because they lied for months on end?

Of course, I loved the picture of an ICE agent pointing a taser at a guy dressed up as a hot dog.

Was the protester arrested for making a threat with a dogly weapon?

If it was a Hebrew National hot dog, would ICE be considered anti-Semitic?

What does the date suggest about the job being done by Portland's city and Oregon's state governments?

I guess it suggests ICE is less effective. From your link:

”It is unclear how many arrests, if any, were made.”


First off, this dog don't hunt.

I’ll say.

They didn’t even take a bite out of crime and arrest the hot dog? Maybe they couldn’t “catch up” to him.

Frightening stuff.

No deflection, I answered Mike's question. I would think it's much worse to have a guillotine with people shouting, "Off with Mike Pence's head!", than just a guillotine, but maybe that's just me.

And since that's not the subject of the thread, you're merely deflecting. Thanks for playing.

Because you typically can't "lock people up and throw away the key" for violating noise ordinances.

And here we go with the millimeter context narrowing and the two-fer of implying There's Nothing To Be Done:
And you usually can't use noise ordinances or other minor violations pretextually to end protests that you dislike. If they're protesting without engaging in any activity that would normally result in criminal arrests (rather than civil enforcement), it's going to be hard to support an arrest.

What happens in Portland night after night - over 100 and counting - is much more that "protests [I] dislike". They don't protest without engaging in nasty behavior. Why, pray tell, are all the windows boarded up at that facility?

You use the noise ordinances and nuisance complaints to disperse the crowd before they get out of hand. I'm not aware of any permits that allow loud protests at 1AM, are you?

But this deserves its own LOL, along with a Come on, man:
Portland has no obligation to prioritize enforcement activities towards minor infractions because the protestors make ICE unhappy.

So the whole injuring cops thing, busting into the ICE facility is a nothingburger. Just kids having fun, amirite?

Again: It's okay to call a lump of crap a lump of crap and the ""protests"" (air quotes) outside the ICE facilities are destructive. No two ways about it.

The large crowd that you linked to in that article was dispersed by Portland police. They were driven off using a combination of crowd control measures and arresting individuals that were observed engaging in criminal behavior. Portland officials stopped that group, using fairly standard responses.

Oh, so you *do* acknowledge that these things are out of hand? Did that stop the riots and assaults or did they continue?

The "100 days" folks are a much smaller crowd that's just been protesting in front of the ICE building. Unless those guys have been breaking glass and launching fireworks continuously for the last three months, I think you're getting them confused.

Erm, no. Antifa counts on the revolving door that is the blue jurisdiction legal system. They know that even if they get taken into custody they're out in an hour with any charges either outright dismissed or lowered to jaywalking infractions. The reason why they don't pull this stuff in, say, Texas, is that they'll get slapped with serious felony charges

At the height of the Seattle riots when we were...making sure Antifa learned that our neighborhood wasn't the place to be I spoke to a Seattle cop about them. He said that they're big and bad on the street but the second the cops grab one they go super docile. Given the above, care to guess why that is? It's because they know if they keep their traps shut it's tough to charge them with anything and if they act up while in police custody there's a non-zero chance of landing charges that actually stick.

So they riot all they want and have an automatic get out of jail free card. Win-win! for them. Not so much if you live near the chaos.

I genuinely am not sure what point you're trying to get at here - what does it suggest? The incident in the article was cleared by Portland PB, so I really don't understand why the June date is significant.

Today's date is September 29, 2025. The article was from June 15, 2029 or so. Doesn't it strike you as odd that these disturbances have been ongoing for several months now and neither the city nor the state is doing the slightest thing to deal with it? Please don't go back to the "protests [I] don't like" thing; that's a red herring: the peace is being disturbed, federal agents are being threatened and violently attacked night after night and the residents have to put up with this on a daily basis.

That link referred to Fox News. Was that the same Fox News that paid three-quarters of a billion dollars because they lied for months on end?

Erm, okay. They faked it all.

https://www.opb.org/article/2025/06/14/portland-po...

There. There's a lib-friendly source for you to pretend you can't read.

At one point, protesters attempted to force their way into the facility, eventually breaking through a glass door with a pole-like object. Protesters then moved back up the street as federal officers wearing tactical gear stepped out to guard the entrance, firing tear gas, flashbangs and acoustic weapons.

Did that stop the riots and assaults or did they continue?

It stopped the riots and the assaults, yes. At least, AFAIK - maybe you have some different information?

There was a riot and a massive disruption that happened in June, and Portland PB cleared it out. There then was a small group of people who maintained a continuous protest ever since.

The people who have been protesting the last 100 days haven't been doing the things that happened at the riot, so the police can't "throw the book at them" or treat them as if they were doing the same things as happened at the riot. The windows are boarded up because of what happened at the riot, not because of what the 100-day protestors have been doing.

The article was from June 15, 2029 or so. Doesn't it strike you as odd that these disturbances have been ongoing for several months now and neither the city nor the state is doing the slightest thing to deal with it?

No, because it's not the same disturbance. What happened in June was a massive protest that devolved into violence. Since then, there have been a small group of people continuing to protest. It's not a massive protest and riot that's been ongoing for three months. It was a big problem that was addressed by Portland PB, followed by a minor protest that's been ongoing.

Please don't go back to the "protests [I] don't like" thing; that's a red herring: the peace is being disturbed, federal agents are being threatened and violently attacked night after night and the residents have to put up with this on a daily basis.

Are federal agents being violently attacked night after night? Do you have a link that shows that? Seems unlikely - this is an ICE office, these are federal law enforcement officials who have arrest authority, and if someone violently attacked them they would almost certainly respond with force and arrest them. Yes, the protest is almost certainly noisy - though I doubt that the ICE office is in a residential neighborhood, which is going to limit the applicability of many noise ordinances.

Again, if you've got links that show that people were rioting or breaking into ICE or the like for 100 days straight, rather than downshifting into just ordinary protesting, I would certainly stand corrected. But that doesn't seem to be the case, which is almost certainly why Portland hasn't bothered driving them off.

At one point, protesters attempted to force their way into the facility, eventually breaking through a glass door with a pole-like object. Protesters then moved back up the street as federal officers wearing tactical gear stepped out to guard the entrance, firing tear gas, flashbangs and acoustic weapons.

So they broke through a glass door for 100 nights in a row?

Why didn’t ICE just arrest the guy for vandalism and trespassing on night 1? That would have saved a lot of glass doors.

He couldn’t have gotten too far. He’s dressed up like a freaking hot dog.

And given that the protesters moved back up the street as federal officers wearing tactical gear stepped out to guard the entrance, why didn’t the federal officers wearing tactical gear just guard the entrance 24x7? That would have saved 99 glass doors. What else were the officers doing? Having a weenie roast?

Maybe they should have napalmed the protesters. This sounds like a very serious attempt to endanger our national security.

No deflection, I answered Mike's question. I would think it's much worse to have a guillotine with people shouting, "Off with Mike Pence's head!", than just a guillotine, but maybe that's just me.

And since that's not the subject of the thread,

No, actually, you're the one who has trouble thinking abstractly at times. Mike asked a question and I gave him a solid answer. So to cover, you denigrate.

So they broke through a glass door for 100 nights in a row?

Among other things.
This is very simple: this kind of violence is wrong and needs to be prosecuted. It’s so pathetically telling how so many people just can’t come out and say that.

This is very simple: this kind of violence is wrong and needs to be prosecuted. It’s so pathetically telling how so many people just can’t come out and say that.

Actually, that’s EXACTLY what I said in my post. Please allow me to quote myself from my last post:

Why didn’t ICE just arrest the guy for vandalism and trespassing on night 1? That would have saved a lot of glass doors.

Do you really want to know what’s pathetically telling?

You, trying to make a mountain out of an Oregon molehill with protesters and making a molehill out of a mountain regarding armed military troops on American streets that is un-American, illegal (no one from the state asked for them - I thought you guys worship state rights), and are causing more harm than good (not to mention costing a pant load of money).

It stopped the riots and the assaults, yes.

So…there’s only been 1 night of trouble?

Okay, then.

Actually, that’s EXACTLY what I said in my post. Please allow me to quote myself from my last post:

Actually, it’s not what you said. You’re wondering why ICE can’t arrest people for noise disturbances and the like? It’s because they don’t have any jurisdiction over the local laws.

Only the PPB can do that.

Among other things.
This is very simple: this kind of violence is wrong and needs to be prosecuted.

Can you provide a link that shows that these guys have been engaged in ongoing violence? That they've been continuously committing violence against federal agents, as you suggested, for example?

When people were committing criminal and violent acts during the June riots, the police swept in and disbursed the crowd - and arrested a bunch of people. Prosecutions have followed:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/six-defendants-...

But unless the folks doing the protests in the 100 days that followed have also been engaged in violent acts, they can't be arrested or prosecuted for violent crimes. So saying "this kind of violence" wouldn't apply to them.

It’s so pathetically telling how so many people just can’t come out and say that.

Violence is wrong and should be prosecuted. Protest is not wrong and cannot be prosecuted. Protest that involves non-violent crimes (like congregating without a permit or violating a noise ordinance) can sometimes be wrong and should sometimes be prosecuted but sometimes should not.

It's so pathetically telling how so many people can't recognize the distinction between those situations.

So…there’s only been 1 night of trouble?

Have there been more than one night of riots and assaults?

Noisy protests might be "trouble," but they generally would not warrant the same response as actual riots and assaults.

Can you provide a link that shows that these guys have been engaged in ongoing violence? That they've been continuously committing violence against federal agents, as you suggested, for example?

Oh, c'mon - you know your dialogue partner. You know that he believes that repeating something over and over, even without a shred of evidence, it is (or becomes) true. That's why there is never any evidence that he'll provide.

Pete

You’re wondering why ICE can’t arrest people for noise disturbances and the like? It’s because they don’t have any jurisdiction over the local laws.

In Oregon, federal law enforcement can arrest anyone that commits any crime in their presence, state or federal. They can also arrest anyone that they have probable cause to believe committed a serious crime (felony or Class A misdemeanor), state or federal.

https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_133.245

It's pretty unlikely that noise disturbances are a criminal violation, rather than a civil one.

Oh, c'mon - you know your dialogue partner.

Yep. He's the only rightie who will engage this board in conversation because angry left-wing quarter-wits have driven everyone else away.

I took you off Ignore for a second to see if you had anything real to add and it looks like...you don't. Go join the rest of your friends here <click>.

Have there been more than one night of riots and assaults?

If we can't agree on basic facts, then there's zero point in continuing.
If you'd like to learn more, go here:

https://nypost.com/2025/06/15/us-news/portland-ant...
June 15th

https://deepnewz.com/crime/federal-authorities-cha...
For the July 4th riot

https://www.theblaze.com/news/ice-facility-in-port...
June 18th riot

Here's a judge letting a bunch of the June 14th rioters go
https://www.denvergazette.com/2025/06/24/liberal-j...

https://www.portland.gov/police/news/2025/6/12/pro...
June 11

https://www.opb.org/article/2025/06/13/ice-protest...
June 12



That's all I'm going to find for you.

In fact, I'm done arguing this. No more rock fetching on Antifa riots, ever (there are usually plenty laying around one of their riots, though). I'm sick of the reality denial on this board. If you guys in red and purple states want feel free to hang out near one of their "mostly peaceful protests" and experience the love for yourselves. I'm not liable for the lung and eardrum damage.

If we can't agree on basic facts, then there's zero point in continuing.

That's why I'm asking you to provide the facts. You suggested that there had been basically three months of continuous, ongoing violence. Not merely protest, not merely non-violent lawbreaking, but actual continual violence. That would be very unusual, especially since (as I noted upthread) this is a federal law enforcement agency, and many of those folks have the power to arrest people who commit crimes in their presence. So I just asked you to provide me with those facts.

Lots of links about the fact that there was a violent riot in mid-June - which the Portland PB moved in on and disbursed. No links demonstrating that we've had continual violence since then.



I'm sick of the reality denial on this board.

It's not reality denial or rock-fetching. You're making rather extraordinary claims. It would be really surprising if a small group of individuals could continually engage in violent acts against a federal law enforcement facility for months on end. These buildings are filled with federal agents that have arrest authority and guns. It probably isn't true that there's been continual violent attacks for three months straight against that facility. If you want to make that claim, it's not unreasonable to ask you to support it.

I think you should seriously consider the possibility that your own perceptions of what's been happening in Portland might be inaccurate: that what happened in mid-June is not representative of what's been happening for the following hundred days, and that after the Portland PB shut down the June event what remained did not involve continuous and ongoing violent assaults (again, against armed federal agents with arrest powers) for a full three months thereafter.

some instruments of public execution are okay but not others?

Which "instrument of public execution" would Spankee choose? Then use it to execute him. Or, we could fall back on the old "drawn and quartered" method if he can't/won't decide.

Trump was watching Fox again?

He is too senile to remember....

No links demonstrating that we've had continual violence since then.

I limited the search terms to June.

But whatever. Portland is peaceful, there are no disturbances at any federal facility there.

At one point, protesters attempted to force their way into the facility, eventually breaking through a glass door with a pole-like object.

Can you imagine if something like this were to happen to our nation's Capitol? Such violent protesters would have to be punished! And they were!

Then our criminal POTUS pardoned his criminal supporters.

Dope, you are such a hypocrite.

At one point, protesters attempted to force their way into the facility, eventually breaking through a glass door with a pole-like object.

In 2020, *armed* demonstrators moved from outside the Michigan capital building to inside. iirc, they did not do a lot of material damage, and did not breach the line of MSP troopers that blocked the entrances to the state House and Senate chambers, but it was a disquieting scene, that could easily have gone sideways.

But these people were Trumpers. Apparently, that makes a difference.

Armed Protesters Inside Michigan State Capitol at Anti-Lockdown Protest April 30th, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tLxb9h-2E4

Steve

No deflection, I answered Mike's question. - Lambo

------------

No you didn't. CO missed the point too.

I posted the guillotine snark as on topic rebuttal to the claim that Portland is a peaceful place, not worthy of outside assistance. I did not bring Jan 6 into the discussion nor did I make any claims of whose tribe builds the better execution machine.

I did not bring Jan 6 into the discussion

You did. Not going to argue with you. You have already lost *that* argument.

Actually, it’s not what you said. You’re wondering why ICE can’t arrest people for noise disturbances and the like? It’s because they don’t have any jurisdiction over the local laws.

No, my post was NOT discussing noise disturbances and the like. We (you and I) were discussing arresting people for vandalism (breaking a glass door) and trespassing (entering an ICE building without authorization). As albaby has already pointed out, they can make arrests for crimes committed in their presence.

I wonder why they didn’t.

I wonder why they didn’t.

In many cases they did. Even gave you a link to a judge dumping the charges.

But we agree: Portland is totally peaceful and there's nooooooooo problems at all!

But we agree: Portland is totally peaceful and there's nooooooooo problems at all!

All cities, small and large, have problems. The larger the city, the more complex the issues.

However, the real question is why are armed military troops being sent to American cities for policing duty (something they were never trained for) when they were never requested by the local police, the city mayor, or the state governor?

Except for very specific reasons (natural disaster, etc.), it’s just plain un-American.

However, the real question is why are armed military troops being sent to American cities for policing duty (something they were never trained for) when they were never requested by the local police, the city mayor, or the state governor?

Because the locals aren't doing their jobs. I mean, if there was a problem at all in a place like Portland.

BTW, Nat Guardsmen *are* in fact trained in crowd control:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/how-natio...

Between 1965 and 1971, the Army National Guard was deployed 260 times to maintain order during urban and anti-war civil disturbances such as those following the death of Martin Luther King Jr.

The outcry over civilian deaths in Detroit, Newark, Kent State and elsewhere resulted in changes to the National Guard.

Guardsmen were given more protective equipment and trained in nonlethal methods of crowd control.

All these locals have to do is...their freaking jobs and protect the federal property. That's it.

In many cases they did. Even gave you a link to a judge dumping the charges.

No you didn't. I think you're misreading that article. The judge just approved bail for those defendants. They didn't dump the charges.

But we agree: Portland is totally peaceful and there's nooooooooo problems at all!

It's not a binary. Portland has not been the site of a continuous barrage of violent attacks against a federal facility. It has been the site of an ongoing contentious protest, which no doubt has been loud and disruptive and violated various non-criminal laws like the noise ordinances you've mentioned from time to time. But that kind of disruption doesn't justify calling out the military to suppress it.

I think you've formed an inaccurate mental picture of what's been going on in Portland since June. You had violence at the protests in June, which led the Portland PB to sweep in, declare it an unlawful assembly, arrest people and disburse the crowds. Since then, you've had an ongoing protest around ICE - but nothing like what happened in June. But you seem to think that it's been the same, continuous level of attacks against ICE for 100 days. That's not the case.

I think you've formed an inaccurate mental picture o

I think you live in red state that doesn’t put up with the kind of nonsense that those of us stuck in blue jurisdictions get to deal with.

I could post more video of more clashes, but why bother? Is every night a complete riot? No. But it’s hilarious reading these “meh, they’ve only rioted 6 or 7 times and most of the time they’re kinda sorta peaceful” takes.

Here''s the question you asked:

Mike: And what better symbol can there be for peace and harmony than a guillotine?

And I answered it directly, understanding your peace and harmony was snark, but you left yourself wide open by the way you phrased it, for a better symbol, and that is the Jan 6 gallows with militants chanting, "Hang Mike Pence". And CO and I walked right in. :) Doncha hate it when that happens? :)

Nobody claimed Portland was a peaceful place that I can see, but Trump claimed it was a war ravaged zone. We knew there was a big todo in June, and most journos mentioned that there was a small group that continued to protest near the front door, but were dismissive of any violence as it was peaceful as far as I and others have read.

So yes, you got a direct answer to the question you asked, and if you made a mistake in asking the question that way, mistakes happen. I should not have to intuit what you really meant.

And yes, you asked for a better symbol and there was one - complete with militants chanting "Hang Mike Pence".

I think you live in red state that doesn’t put up with the kind of nonsense that those of us stuck in blue jurisdictions get to deal with.

But that observation is very different from what you've been arguing in this thread.

From your discussion, you have a particular view of the facts of what's happened in Portland. That when the June 15 event devolved into violence, that the Portland authorities basically did nothing - that no one was arrested, and if any were the charges against them were dismissed. Because of that weak response, since then there has been an ongoing barrage of continuous violence against the ICE building that the authorities have done nothing about. Which leads you to believe that the calling out of federal troops is justified. It also believes you to believe that liberals on this board are completely unjustified in criticizing that measure, because any rational person of goodwill would conclude that federal troops are a legitimate response to raging violence that has proceeded unabated for months.

But none of that is true. When the June 15th event devolved into violence, the Portland PB declared it an unlawful gathering, swept in with the full panoply of crowd control measures and dispersed everyone from the area. Many people were charged, and the criminal prosecutions have not been dismissed. The ongoing protests have not involved a continuation of ongoing and ceaseless violent activity against the ICE building. Which makes sense, because the ICE building is filled with armed federal law enforcement agents who have complete authority to arrest anyone they observe committing a crime and nearly all such crimes would be prosecuted federally. So while there might be low-level civil or minor disturbance violations going on, there isn't anything going on that would justify the extreme measure of calling in federal troops.

The people who are disagreeing with you aren't being irrational or malevolent. They just have a different assessment of what the factual situation is. No one would disagree that if the level of violence that happened on June 15th had been continuously ongoing for the last 100 days, that some intervention would be necessary. But similarly, I don't think that you would disagree that it's not appropriate for federal troops to be called out in a circumstance where you don't have something like that.

They just have a different assessment of what the factual situation is.

And, apparently, he's not only entitled to his own opinion, but his own facts. Facts/evidence do not matter once your mind is made up. He all but admitted, though, that he did not even look at what was actually happened when he said, "I limited the search terms to June."

There you have it. He looked at June 15th (now) and decided that was all happening currently and that nothing local law enforcement did changed that. It's nearly impossible to change a mind that is already made up, though you give it your best.

Pete

But that observation is very different from what you've been arguing in this thread.


I haven't argued much in this thread because none of you will admit to there actually being any kind of problem in Portland. You folks are sitting there - contra to evidence - and denying any problems at all.

Just last night, more fighting and two more arrests:
https://katu.com/news/local/arrests-made-outside-i...

PORTLAND, Ore. (KATU) — Overnight, Portland Police say they made two arrests outside of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility in south Portland.

With more video:
https://x.com/BrandiKruse/status/19724860609335501...

BREAKING: Clash outside ICE facility in Portland as crowd refuses to clear driveway.

This goes on day after day and yet for some reason folks want to pretend it doesn't.

Hey, whatever floats everyone's boat.

You're doing the thing again, where you try and narrow the debate to one minor point and remove any debate room your opponent has...that's certainly your right, but there has been much more than June 15th going on. The scene I've posted above plays out much of the time down there and every time Antifa blocks the driveway they're interfering with federal officers as well as disturbing the peace.

Hence the Guard troops.

I'm not debating in this thread. People screamed "yOu GoT No eViDeNcE" and when evidence is posted...the same folks pretend they don't see it.

The people who are disagreeing with you aren't being irrational or malevolent.

The people who disagree with me are denying facts. It's that simple.

Here, I'm going to give you something. Portland isn't a war zone.

Now, let's see if you can reciprocate: Portland also isn't peaceful. The truth is down the middle someplace. All Kotek needs to do is clear out the morons who are actively interfering with the federal agents who are trying to do their jobs but she won't do that. Instead there's this level of pretending that what's going on is "free speech" (when it often involves rock throwing and attempts to breach federal buildings).

I haven't argued much in this thread because none of you will admit to there actually being any kind of problem in Portland. You folks are sitting there - contra to evidence - and denying any problems at all.

No, we're not. We're merely denying that Portland is "war ravaged" - that the ICE has been experiencing a hundred days of continuous and ongoing violent assaults that would merit a military response. Several posters in this thread have noted that Portland has problems. Just not the kind of problems that require military forces.

Here, I'm going to give you something. Portland isn't a war zone.

Good. Then we shouldn't send troops there.

All Kotek needs to do is clear out the morons who are actively interfering with the federal agents who are trying to do their jobs but she won't do that.

Why does she need to do that? When they do anything violent, they can be arrested for committing violence. Other than that, you pretty much just let them protest. It's just worse if you try to suppress the protest with pretextual arrests for minor crimes. All you'll do is get even more protesters there. Which is why ICE, despite having exactly the same authority to go out and arrest those folks as Kotek does, isn't doing it either.

We're merely denying that Portland is "war ravaged" - that the ICE has been experiencing a hundred days of continuous and ongoing violent assaults that would merit a military response. Several posters in this thread have noted that Portland has problems. Just not the kind of problems that require military forces.

Portland is not war ravaged. But the locals aren't doing enough to protect the federal property.

Why does she need to do that?

Because since Portlandia's Mayor won't do it becomes her effing job.

But the locals aren't doing enough to protect the federal property.

I don't think you've supported that claim. When people actually commit damage to the federal property, they can arrest them. Or the federal law enforcement agents can arrest them. But the people who aren't doing that? When they're not committing any damage against federal property?

It's typically not a smart idea for "the locals" to just go out and suppress a protest when they're not actually doing anything violent. Because that will just make things worse.

Just last night, more fighting and two more arrests:
https://katu.com/news/local/arrests-made-outside-i..

But Dope, didn't you assure us there were no arrests?

AI Overview

Arrests outside Portland's ICE facility have fluctuated, with federal charges against 26 people since early June for crimes like arson and resisting arrest, and a drop in overall arrests throughout the summer. However, the timeline also shows a recent incident on September 29, 2025, where police arrested two people after a fight between protestors and those with opposing views, and an earlier July 4th incident where federal agents arrested four people for throwing fireworks.

The real reason Portland is a focus of alt right fury is that it is a liberal bastion and it is generally successful and a shining light as to what a city can be. They can't stand blue cities demonstrating the merits of liberal governance and would tear them down in the press and probably in reality.

I don't think you've supported that claim.

Have they sent out a presence to monitor the crowd? Are there state troopers posted there?

I'm done fetching rocks on this. You folks just keep asking for more and don't really believe what gets posted.

It's typically not a smart idea for "the locals" to just go out and suppress a protest when they're not actually doing anything violent. Because that will just make things worse.


Yeah, Antifa folks are known for being polite, respectful and never breaking any laws!

Have they sent out a presence to monitor the crowd? Are there state troopers posted there?

I'm done fetching rocks on this.


Sure you are.

Using your unassailable logic, shouldn't we now station troops on every college campus, and outside all the Mormon churches?

Have they sent out a presence to monitor the crowd? Are there state troopers posted there?

I'm done fetching rocks on this. You folks just keep asking for more and don't really believe what gets posted.

I believe what you've posted. You just haven't posted anything that supports your argument that there's an ongoing problem that requires either the military or state troopers to be regularly posted there. The June 15th event devolved into violence, and no one disagrees with that - so your posts about that don't really support your claim. And we believe that there have been sporadic incidents after that - for which people are duly arrested, which is what's supposed to happen. Again, it doesn't really support your claim that there's something going on that's so violent that it requires permanent state trooper (much less military) presence.

This isn't "fetching rocks." If you want to make a claim, you should be able to support it. I'm not asking you to prove uncontested facts - go out and find me a link that says the sky is blue. You're making the claim that the level of ongoing violence is sufficiently high that it would warrant a permanent posting of state troopers there - even though the place is crawling with federal law enforcement already.

Yeah, Antifa folks are known for being polite, respectful and never breaking any laws!

Again, it's not a binary. You keep falling back to this - when someone asks you to support the claim that "X is a major problem," instead of actually supporting it you pretend that they're arguing that "X has zero problems ever ever never!" We're not. We're just asking you to actually show that this is a significant enough problem to justify the unusually high level of law enforcement resources you're claiming it warrants.

shouldn't we now station troops on every college campus

Remember Kent State?

How much fun would it be if many/most of the students were all armed, and SHOT BACK ???

I haven't argued much in this thread because none of you will admit to there actually being any kind of problem in Portland. You folks are sitting there - contra to evidence - and denying any problems at all.


1.Not a ravaged war zone with looting and burning.

2.Not a job for the military (clean shaven or bearded)

You just haven't posted anything that supports your argument that there's an ongoing problem that requires either the military or state troopers to be regularly posted there.

I posted you more than June 15; you’re ignoring the other incidents.

That’s fine and I’ve come to expect that.

I suspect that even if I live streamed the democrats’ street army mounting an M-60 to the back of a Prius and lighting up the facility every day that wouldn’t count as “”evidence”” either. Someone would insist on examining the shell casings.

But beyond that what’s even more hilarious is that you’re conveniently forgetting that the correct number of riots outside of a federal building is … wait for it … zero.

Kotek knows that but she also knows that she really doesn’t mind the antics and the tactics. That’s how Oregon rolls.

1.Not a ravaged war zone with looting and burning.

Goal posts a ‘rollin, rollin’ down the road!

2.Not a job for the military (clean shaven or bearded)

Not normally. But blue governors seem averse to protecting public order under Republican presidents.

Here's some more evidence for this board to ignore. It's video of the democrats' street army shining powerful lasers at ICE agents.

They do this about every day.

https://x.com/USBPChief/status/1287753234019483648...

Agents are assaulted w/laser weapons in #Portland every night.

These are deliberate acts of aggression against Agents who are guarding the federal courthouse. Violent extremists are ramping up the use of these & other weapons that are causing severe bodily harm to our Agents.

And it's not just agents they're shooting lasers at: a couple of days ago they lased a Blackhawk that was flying around. Agents converged on a house right near the ICE facility and arrested 4 people:

https://x.com/KatieDaviscourt/status/1972811494049...

Just in — The FBI raided a home near the Portland ICE facility as part of an investigation involving an individual shining a high-powered laser at a military helicopter performing lawful duties.

Turns out the suspect was an illegal alien who is now in ICE custody.

Additionally, three other occupants were apprehended during the search. They are also illegal aliens and are now being processed for removal.

Go figure. Multiple illegal aliens shooting lasers at government helicopters at the same time the democrats' street army is shooting lasers at ICE agents.

I posted you more than June 15; you’re ignoring the other incidents.

I'm not ignoring them - they just don't support what you're arguing.

You say the police aren't doing their jobs. But then you post that they've been arresting people when they cross the line from protest to criminal behavior. You post videos of them shining laser pointers at ICE - but that probably doesn't constitute a criminal offense, so it's not clear what state troopers being on site would do about that. Etc.

No one disagrees that the police should intervene if there's an actual riot going on. But that's not what's happening right now. Mandatory disclaimer - my pointing out that there isn't a riot is not me arguing that there are no problems in Portland, or even that there are no problems outside of the ICE building. But the most reasonable approach to those problems is almost certainly what the PB was doing - arresting people if they did anything that was actually criminal, but otherwise just let them protest and it will fizzle out over time. Which is what was happening; the number of people there had been declining over time, as folks just gradually lost interest.

But beyond that what’s even more hilarious is that you’re conveniently forgetting that the correct number of riots outside of a federal building is … wait for it … zero.

I agree. But that's the number of riots that are currently taking place outside the ICE building in Portland - zero. If you had evidence that there was actually a riot going on there all the time that wasn't being addressed, I'd be more inclined to agree with you that something needed to change. But the only riot they've had was the one that took place on June 15. And with that riot, local PD went in and took action and dispersed the crowd forthwith, with arrests and prosecutions following. There hasn't been a riot since then, and that's the correct number of riots.

I'm not ignoring them - they just don't support what you're arguing.

Right.

You say the police aren't doing their jobs. But then you post that they've been arresting people when they cross the line from protest to criminal behavior.

They're arresting some of the people. They're not dispersing the crowd and they're not doing anything to deter the crowd from forming in the first place.

But the most reasonable approach to those problems is almost certainly what the PB was doing - arresting people if they did anything that was actually criminal, but otherwise just let them protest and it will fizzle out over time. Which is what was happening; the number of people there had been declining over time, as folks just gradually lost interest.

No. These things do not "fizzle out over time" in Portland. Go look up the number of incidents they had from 2021-2023.

But that's the number of riots that are currently taking place outside the ICE building in Portland - zero.

Sure, if one chooses for forget all the riots in June and July.

This assertion:
You post videos of them shining laser pointers at ICE - but that probably doesn't constitute a criminal offense, so it's not clear what state troopers being on site would do about that. Etc.

...seriously takes the cake. I'll invite you to go look up what view the feds take on shining lasers especially at aircraft; hint: they take a dim view of that.

...seriously takes the cake. I'll invite you to go look up what view the feds take on shining lasers especially at aircraft; hint: they take a dim view of that.



By all means, never stop digging your one big beautiful hole.

They're not dispersing the crowd and they're not doing anything to deter the crowd from forming in the first place.

Again, forming a crowd and maintaining a crowd is generally not a crime. You can't just go and arrest them for doing that.

Sure, if one chooses for forget all the riots in June and July.

As I said, there isn't a riot going on now. So there's no need for federal troop intervention now. Unless you have a time machine, you can't send troops back to June - and it was taken care of by local PD in June anyway.

...seriously takes the cake. I'll invite you to go look up what view the feds take on shining lasers especially at aircraft; hint: they take a dim view of that.

Yes, because aviation is subject to different regulations. Just because it is a crime to shine a laser at an airplane doesn't mean it's a crime to shine a laser at a building.

Again, forming a crowd and maintaining a crowd is generally not a crime.

No one asserted that it was. However, is your crowd allowed to block entry and exit ways to federal property?

As I said, there isn't a riot going on now.

And as I said, I could livestream our theoretical M-60-equipped Prius spraying bullets into the building at random intervals and that probably wouldn't count either.

Just because it is a crime to shine a laser at an airplane doesn't mean it's a crime to shine a laser at a building.

I know, right? It's all fun and games until we laser someone into permanent eye damage. No crime there!

BTW - lasers are a preferred weapon for antifa types. They hide behind this kind of sentiment.

Me, I always say if you're someplace where there's lots of goons around just carry a boat whistle with you.

PORTLAND, Ore. (KATU) — Overnight, Portland Police say they made two arrests outside of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility in south Portland.

So your argument for having armed military troops in Portland is that the Portland police are both willing and capable of arresting individuals who break the law?

So your argument for having armed military troops in Portland is that the Portland police are both willing and capable of arresting individuals who break the law?

Portland the city and the state of Oregon are sitting back and allowing the democrats' street army to harass and attack the ICE facility pretty much at will.

You and al are trying the same old tired argument (that fits into the street gangs' MO): Hey, man. We ain't doing nothing. So what if a bunch of us happen to be standing here blocking your driveway? We'll move. If somebody occasionally gets out of hand and throws a rock it didn't come from us, man. No way, dude. I don't know how that window got broken or how all that graffiti got there. And lasers? What lasers?

No offense to you both, but nobody buys this sh1t. The Portland PPB comes when called - oh, probably a while later - and makes a grand effort at keeping things calm, but quickly get pushed out:

(Yet more video for you guys to ignore)
https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/385064-2025-0...

Whose streets? Their streets.

Remind me. Aren't you supposed to have permits and things before you shut down roads?

I haven't argued much in this thread because none of you will admit to there actually being any kind of problem in Portland.

Dope, there may have been a problem back during the old BLM demonstration period, and on June 15, but the rest of the time there doesn't seem to be a problem. Is the old BLM era coloring your judgement? You have argued that there were one hundred nights of continued June 15th, and that seems to be a misconception on your part. You haven't made any case that there were 100 nights of burning, looting, violence, fires, cars and buildings burned, the whole shmeer. We now have the idea that you can't make a case there was a problem because there wasn't one, and you want to blame us for there not being a problem.

No one asserted that it was. However, is your crowd allowed to block entry and exit ways to federal property?

If you're not asserting it's a crime, then what do you think the state troopers would be doing? On what basis would they disperse the crowd or prevent it from forming each day?

The crowd isn't "allowed" to block entry and exit ways to anyone's property, but it's probably not a criminal offense to do so (unlike, say, breaking a window). There might be some federal statute that's broad enough to make it a crime to do that. But the reason that ICE hasn't just gone out and arrested them for doing that is the same reason the state police aren't coming up with some super-broad interpretation of a state statute to do that - it's a really dumb move, since it would just pour gasoline on the fire.

As I said, there isn't a riot going on now.

I could livestream our theoretical M-60-equipped Prius spraying bullets into the building at random intervals and that probably wouldn't count either.

No, it would certainly count. But that's not what's happening right now. We're not disagreeing because nothing could ever "count" as a sufficiently violent attack to warrant a response - we're disagreeing because what's actually been happening on-site for the last several months after the June riot has not been an actual riot, and therefore doesn't warrant calling in federal troops.

Are you arguing that there has been an actual riot going on in front of the ICE building for the last 100 days?

I know, right? It's all fun and games until we laser someone into permanent eye damage. No crime there!

Doesn't matter whether it's "fun and games" or not. Unless shining a laser is something that violates a criminal statute in the state of Oregon, you can't arrest people for doing it. And again, since the ICE agents - who are also law enforcement officers with arrest powers and guns - didn't go out and arrest these folks for shining lasers, that's a pretty good sign that it doesn't fall within general assault crimes.

Dope, there may have been a problem back during the old BLM demonstration period, and on June 15,

...and the other times that I've provided evidence of.

But this *is* progress. Seems like a lot of libs don't want to admit to the daily rioting that took place during the St. George of Floyd riots.

You haven't made any case that there were 100 nights of burning, looting, violence, fires, cars and buildings burned, the whole shmeer.

Because I've made no such assertion. Thanks for trying what BillZ tried. Except you took it to another level: You didn't just try to drag the goalposts down to the river, you loaded them on a flat bed and drove them across state lines. That's next level right there.

If you're not asserting it's a crime, then what do you think the state troopers would be doing? On what basis would they disperse the crowd or prevent it from forming each day?

How about providing a barrier between the left's street army and the ICE building?

Oh, right- that's expensive. Well so is having ICE agents do what they're having to do every day.

Also lost in this are the poor suckers that have to live there with this day in and day out...but their rights don't matter either.

But the reason that ICE hasn't just gone out and arrested them for doing that is the same reason the state police aren't coming up with some super-broad interpretation of a state statute to do that - it's a really dumb move, since it would just pour gasoline on the fire.

What are they going to do, riot?

And again, since the ICE agents - who are also law enforcement officers with arrest powers and guns - didn't go out and arrest these folks for shining lasers, that's a pretty good sign that it doesn't fall within general assault crimes.

I'll leave it to someone else to look up the definition of assault with intent. Let's also remind ourselves that if the ICE agents busted some local for assault with a laser that the Multnomah county (that's Portland's county DA) would set them free in under 5 minutes.

Again, this is why you don't see this stuff in blue cities in RED states because Antifa knows they'll get jail time. In true-blue Portland, OR? It's open season on Republicans. Same is true in WA state.

How about providing a barrier between the left's street army and the ICE building?

Oh, right- that's expensive. Well so is having ICE agents do what they're having to do every day.

Where? They can't go onto the ICE property to put in a barrier, and if they seal the ICE property off from the public roads and sidewalks, then how would ICE folks get in and out to do their jobs?

I mean, barriers aren't expensive - I'm sure the local public works department has a ton of them that can be deployed if needed. And I'm sure ICE has access to plenty as well. But how would that actually work?

What are they going to do, riot?

Maybe! If the PB or ICE start trying to stop people from protesting, rather than just ignoring them unless they commit a crime, you turn a rather forlorn protest of a few dozen die-hards into a big event. So instead of helping, you make it much worse - breathing new life into a fading act of protest, and increasing the chance that things get out of hand once you 10x the crowd.

I'll leave it to someone else to look up the definition of assault with intent. Let's also remind ourselves that if the ICE agents busted some local for assault with a laser that the Multnomah county (that's Portland's county DA) would set them free in under 5 minutes.

Last I checked, assaulting a federal officer would be a federal crime. So it would go to federal court and be under the DOJ whether to continue with charges, not the local DA.

BTW, since ICE isn't arresting anybody, there's a pretty strong likelihood that they don't think that shining a laser is actually assault with intent.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/111

Where? They can't go onto the ICE property to put in a barrier, and if they seal the ICE property off from the public roads and sidewalks, then how would ICE folks get in and out to do their jobs?.

lol. Really? I laughed out loud at this one :)

Maybe!

Wow. Next you’ll tell me that they might try to break into the ICE building, throw fireworks at offices and physically assault them. Or try to down circling helicopters by
Blinding the pilots.

Or maybe the snowflakes can let the people that live there get a decent night’s sleep for once.

lol. Really? I laughed out loud at this one :)

Why?

Again, you're criticizing local law enforcement for not doing a thing, but not explaining why or how they should do the thing. From what I can tell from looking at Google Maps, the ICE building is generally flush with the sidewalk along most of the property lines. The areas where it's not are almost entirely devoted to the main driveway and the entrance courtyard into the building. There's nowhere I can see that you could put a barrier that would be effective to keep out protestors without making the building unusable. Or did you have a suggestion?

Next you’ll tell me that they might try to break into the ICE building, throw fireworks at offices and physically assault them.

If you 10x the number of people at the protests, then that's more likely to happen. But if you let the people who aren't breaking into the ICE building or physically assaulting agents just hang out and do their protesting, rather than try to suppress the protests, you'll have far fewer people.

Why?

Because it was hilarious: Where? They can't go onto the ICE property to put in a barrier, and if they seal the ICE property off from the public roads and sidewalks, then how would ICE folks get in and out to do their jobs?

I realize it's Portland and all, which has been a dump for the 25 years I've lived in the Pacific Northwest but even they must have things called...traffic cones...that would provide a simple barrier allowing the ICE vehicles to ingress and egree the area. And then be able to put folks on that line and tell goons not to cross it.

Nah. We don't have orange cone thingies down there.

If you 10x the number of people at the protests, then that's more likely to happen. But if you let the people who aren't breaking into the ICE building or physically assaulting agents just hang out and do their protesting, rather than try to suppress the protests, you'll have far fewer people.

Oh, I see. We can't enforce the law and protect federal officers who are merely executing the law because we might make some other angry bunch show up and *really* trash the place.

Yet more video:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_per...

Note the resident who says they're afraid to leave the building.
Brandi breaks it down: Why hasn't Oregon done anything?

She also confirms what I've been saying that the Portland cops don't have any real presence there; they just kinda sorta monitor things.

Brandi also describes the bike cops attempting for all of a minute to clear that street only to run away.

I realize it's Portland and all, which has been a dump for the 25 years I've lived in the Pacific Northwest but even they must have things called...traffic cones...that would provide a simple barrier allowing the ICE vehicles to ingress and egress the area. And then be able to put folks on that line and tell goons not to cross it.

If there's openings to allow ICE vehicles (and pedestrians who need to use the front entrance) to go in and out, then what good is the barrier? People will just walk around the barrier through the openings. If you've got "folks on the line" to tell protesters not to cross the line, then what's the barrier for? This isn't a sprawling complex - it's an office building, with only about 50 feet of frontage on the side where the protestors are taking place, half of which is the driveway.

We can't enforce the law and protect federal officers who are merely executing the law because we might make some other angry bunch show up and *really* trash the place.

You can absolutely enforce the law to protect federal officers. If these protestors start committing actual crimes - arrest them! That's what the police have been doing. ICE can do it also!

But sweeping through and arresting people who haven't been committing crimes - arresting them just for protesting - is going to be counterproductive, expensive (it costs money to process all those folks), and not solve the problem. Because it's just going to 10x the number of people protesting, which is what you wanted to solve for.

Which is why the police aren't doing that, and why there's zero reason for the federal government to send troops to Portland. Because it isn't "war ravaged," as you have acknowledged. It just has had a relatively small (20-30 people) group of disruptive protestors causing problems for ICE. If there was a way for the police or federal troops to make the protest go away, there might be a realistic argument about whether that is an appropriate choice to make. But there isn't a way for anyone to make the protest go away, because if you try to suppress the protest you just get more protest.

If there's openings to allow ICE vehicles (and pedestrians who need to use the front entrance) to go in and out, then what good is the barrier? People will just walk around the barrier through the openings.

I know, right? We can't possibly stage a Portland cop there to tell them that lane is closed and they need to move on. Just nothing we can do, I tells ya.

They're providing next to zero resources and allowing the mob to block the street and do its thing pretty much all the time. That's evident and I have in fact shown you all the video evidence one needs to reach that conclusion.

We can't possibly stage a Portland cop there to tell them that lane is closed and they need to move on.

But why would you station a Portland cop full time just to keep people from standing on the sidewalk? That's a phenomenally bad use of resources. Instead of doing any other law enforcement duties, you have a uniformed officer devoted to just that, 24/7? We're now well outside the realm of, "Portland's not doing a simple obvious thing" into the realm of, "Yeah, that's a more serious commitment of resources that Portland isn't obligated to and probably shouldn't make."

If a simple barrier could work to change the dynamic, then it's easy to criticize Portland for not putting in a simple barrier (and ICE as well). But if you have to actually have a full-time cop there, that's a far different proposition.

They're providing next to zero resources and allowing the mob to block the street and do its thing pretty much all the time. That's evident and I have in fact shown you all the video evidence one needs to reach that conclusion.

Yet still not a "riot." Not war ravaged. Not something that involves a continuous barrage of violence against federal officers, or any apparent criminal activity at all. Just a bunch of people walking in the streets holding signs. Which is certainly annoying and disruptive, but equally certainly not the sort of thing where it is useful to use police power to just walk in and start arresting folks. And absolutely not the sort of situation that warrants the intervention of federal troops.

but nobody buys this sh1t.

You gotta pay to have it hauled away.

Seems like a lot of libs don't want to admit to the daily rioting that took place during the St. George of Floyd riots.

Nope. I witnessed it, "up close and personal". It was on national TV.

You are clueless, as usual.

But why would you station a Portland cop full time

To maintain public order? Do the job of the city?

The social contract in Portland is seriously broken.

But if you have to actually have a full-time cop there, that's a far different proposition.

So instead we have to have federal workers under constant threat of violence from the goons. Is that it?
How about instead...they get on with their lives?

Also, I highly doubt they have permits to close the streets with their marches. Which makes every single one of these "protests" illegal.

Yet still not a "riot." Not war ravaged.

Yes...

Not something that involves a continuous barrage of violence against federal officers, or any apparent criminal activity at all.

...and no.
Your governor wouldn't put up with this crap. Actually, it would never get there because county sheriffs in Florida know how to take care of business.

It's open season on Republicans.

Blame Spankee. He/she/it/they/them declared the hunting season opening. Oh, you suddenly do NOT like the consequences of Spankee doing MORE stupid Spankee crap?

Say. Let's ask the esteemed chief of the Portland Police Bureau about all this!

https://x.com/KATUNews/status/1972800435170787346?...

Portland Police Chief Bob Day says the area near the ICE facility is small, and doesn't rise to the level of federal agents being deployed.

"I just want to emphasize, this is one city block. City of Portland is about 145 square miles," Chief Day says.

That's right, Bob. It's one city block, and you refuse to do your job. That's why the feds are calling for reinforcements.

Let's be clear. The city of Portland supports the assaults on federal officers because they want to make political statement. No matter who gets hurt.

Nah. We don't have orange cone thingies down there.

No surprise. Spankee's goons keep stealing them to send to Spankee as "tit enhancers".

To maintain public order? Do the job of the city?

Is that specific posting the most valuable application of law enforcement resources to maintain public order? To stand there and keep a few dozen protestors from crossing into the ICE property? Seems pretty unlikely that that's the best use of a uniformed on-duty officer. Certainly not so obviously that you could say the Mayor is being derelict for not choosing to make that a priority, or the governor for not permanently posting state troopers.

So instead we have to have federal workers under constant threat of violence from the goons. Is that it?

It's a free country, so you don't ever get to be completely free of protests if people want to protest what you're doing.

Your governor wouldn't put up with this crap.

He didn't do much in 2020 during the Floyd protests, because there wasn't much he could do. That's why the legislature passed a whole bunch of changes to the criminal code, so that there actually were criminal violations that could be brought against people who engaged in this type of protest. I doubt there's anything similar on the books in Oregon. Plus, I doubt he'd take any action against a conservative-coded protest - like, say, an anti-abortion protest that got out of hand and started blocking traffic.

Is that specific posting the most valuable application of law enforcement resources to maintain public order?

Oh, so now we're arguing that Portland is too busy to enforce it's laws, got it. Doesn't that kinda run counter to Governor Kotek's narrative that the city is safe and totally peaceful? If that were true then why can't Portland spare a couple of cops to defend 1 lousy city block?

It's a free country, so you don't ever get to be completely free of protests if people want to protest what you're doing.

I get to be free of harassment, violent threats, bottle of piss thrown at me, rocks lobbed in my direction and other things. I also have freedom of movement and no one is allowed to hold me in one location against my will.

Can the people that live there say the same thing?

He didn't do much in 2020 during the Floyd protests, because there wasn't much he could do.

DeSantis got the laws changed so that he could do something...because he cares about public safety. Kotek cares about making political points to her base.

I get to be free of harassment, violent threats, bottle of piss thrown at me, rocks lobbed in my direction and other things. I also have freedom of movement and no one is allowed to hold me in one location against my will.

Can the people that live there say the same thing?

No. Especially when it is a police-state violating their rights. Which is exactly what you are advocating.

Doesn't that kinda run counter to Governor Kotek's narrative that the city is safe and totally peaceful? If that were true then why can't Portland spare a couple of cops to defend 1 lousy city block?

I don't think Governor Kotek has argued that Portland is entirely and utterly without crime. No city is. Which means that they still have to make choice about what to do with their cops. Having several on-duty cops devoted full time to standing guard over one property in one city block against the possibility that a protest with a few dozen people might do something? Not a particularly compelling use.

I get to be free of harassment, violent threats, bottle of piss thrown at me, rocks lobbed in my direction and other things. I also have freedom of movement and no one is allowed to hold me in one location against my will.

Can the people that live there say the same thing?

Sure. I mean, I don't think that the ICE building is in a particularly residential neighborhood (it seems like it's in a more industrial/office area, as one would expect) - but even so, the protests are targeting ICE, not any nearby apartment buildings. No doubt it's annoying and disruptive for people who might live nearby, but no more so than the folks who happen to live near, say, an abortion clinic that might be the subject of near-permanent protests.

DeSantis got the laws changed so that he could do something...because he cares about public safety. Kotek cares about making political points to her base.

Or alternatively, DeSantis got the laws changed so that he could make political points to his base (which was upset by the Floyd protests). I doubt very seriously that if there had been massive demonstrations in favor of MAGA, or a March for Life had gotten out of control, you would have seen anything similar.

I don't think Governor Kotek has argued that Portland is entirely and utterly without crime.

Then why did she lead a gaslighting march miles away from the ICE facility talking up Portland?

I don't think that the ICE building is in a particularly residential neighborhood

There's literally an apartment building within 50 yards of it. It's visible in pretty much every video.

Here, here's yet another video for you - This is what one of the residents thinks about all the riots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI5l0jXV1Gs

From June. I guess she's lying when she says "night after night".

Then why did she lead a gaslighting march miles away from the ICE facility talking up Portland?

Because that's not equivalent to saying that Portland is completely and utterly free from crime, such that devoting a cop to babysit a small number of protestors is an appropriate use of police resources.

From June. I guess she's lying when she says "night after night".

Why would she be lying? Having loud noises in your neighborhood can be very disruptive. It's also typically a civil violation, not a police matter - something that I actually have a little experience with from years of representing nightclubs on Miami Beach back in the day. Certainly not something to involve federal military forces to fight.

From June. I guess she's lying when she says "night after night".


Well, you can guess, but you can’t know, because you’re not even in the same state, snowflake.

I hope you’re able to sleep tonight. Big bad Auntie Tifa is getting you so worked up again!

Keep digging, though. Uncovering those “Fox Facts” is what makes you the citizen you are.

Because that's not equivalent to saying that Portland is completely and utterly free from crime, such that devoting a cop to babysit a small number of protestors is an appropriate use of police resources.

And yet she's trying to convey the classic "Nothing to see here!" message. As I said, gaslighting. What gives it away is that she was nowhere near the ICE building.

Why would she be lying?

Well upthread there were loads of posts about No evidence about rioting and what not, so...

It's also typically a civil violation, not a police matter - something that I actually have a little experience with from years of representing nightclubs on Miami Beach back in the day. Certainly not something to involve federal military forces to fight.

We all agree that no one wants federal troops there. The National Guard has better things to do that than stand there and have Antifa throw things at them.

The only reason this is a thing at all is because Oregon's leadership wants to make a political statement and they're willing to get people hurt to do it. Your problem is with them, not Trump.

Well upthread there were loads of posts about No evidence about rioting and what not, so...

And still none. Recognizing that there was a riot on June 15th, which was dispersed by the police, there haven't been ongoing riots since.

No one has disputed that whichever neighbors might live in the neighborhood will be bothered if there's loud protests. What people have disputed is that there's been ongoing violent assaults on the ICE building that might warrant federal intervention for the last 100 days. You seem to acknowledge that's the case, so why complain about the posts upthread that pointed out that you didn't post evidence of an ongoing riot?

When you post videos of things that aren't riots, it's not evidence of riots. Or indeed anything that warrants calling out federal troops.

And still none. other than videos of people discussing it and what not.
As I said, this board would demand the shell casings from our machine-gunning Prius before believing anything.

Recognizing that there was a riot on June 15th, and only recognizing that riot ignores literally everything else posted but that's a feature, not a bug.

No one has disputed that whichever neighbors might live in the neighborhood will be bothered if there's loud protests. What people have disputed is that there's been ongoing violent assaults on the ICE building that might warrant federal intervention for the last 100 days.

Then I invite the board to go and do what Brandi Kruse did, which was take her camera down there and see for herself what it's like. She went in there with the premise that "No, it's not a war zone, but it's likely not peaceful either" and came away with the conclusion that yes, they need federal troops.

When you post videos of things that aren't riots, <--- and here it is! The definitional narrowing. Which is a more subtle version of the goal post moving your compatriots tried upthread.

As I said, this board would demand the shell casings from our machine-gunning Prius before believing anything.

That's not relevant. How they would respond to actual evidence of riots does not change the fact that there isn't any evidence of continuous ongoing violent assaults on the ICE building out there. Saying that someone wouldn't believe you if you had proof of something doesn't suddenly mean that you do have proof of something. Whether other people on the board (not me) would refuse to believe actual evidence of people rioting for the last 100 consecutive days isn't relevant to whether that's actually a true description of what's been going on in Portland. It's not. As you've pretty much acknowledged.

<--- and here it is! The definitional narrowing.

What are you talking about? This entire thread has been about the fact that whatever's been happening during the last hundred days has not been a continuous and ongoing riot against the ICE building. No one's narrowing any definition. You posted a video of a woman complaining to protesters about how the noise is terrible - which is certainly a problem, but it's not the thing you were claiming upthread was happening.

It's not moving the goalposts. You said upthread that "[t]he locals should be locking up the people that are rioting for 100+ days in a row." You were asked for some evidence that people have actually been rioting for 100+ days in a row. Pointing out to you that the videos you posted of people not rioting are actually not evidence of people rioting isn't "definitional narrowing." There has not been "100+ days in a row" of rioting, or indeed any continuous and ongoing violent attacks on the ICE building that would warrant federal military intervention.

She went in there with the premise that "No, it's not a war zone, but it's likely not peaceful either" and came away with the conclusion that yes, they need federal troops.

Neither you nor she has a clue what is required to send in federal troops. Just because "YOU WANT or SHE WANTS" is irrelevant. Deal with reality, not a wish list.

That's not relevant.

Sure it is. It literally doesn't matter how much video gets posted, how many news reports, how many links, etc. It's never enough and never will be enough. Hence the shell casings comment.

"Trump is invading Portland...an action I’d be on here railing against everyday, if he was a Democrat." ~Dope

It literally doesn't matter how much video gets posted,

I agree that there isn't enough video for you to post, so you make this claim. And that's even taking into account Faux news manufacturing clips. However, AI can give you hope, you may be able to order it on command in the future. Then you can post a lot of fake videos, gaslight, and sneer.

Then you can post a lot of fake videos, gaslight, and sneer.

lol! It’s all made up, is it?

What, do I need to post court documents? Will those count?

What, do I need to post court documents? Will those count?

You don't need to post court documents. But if you want to say that there's been 100+ days of continuous rioting, and you want to support that by posting videos, then the videos need to show the rioting over the last 100 days or so that you say happened.

Not videos of people who aren't rioting. Even if the videos show that things are disruptive or annoying or making things difficult for residents in the area, if they are videos of people who are not rioting, then they're not evidence that there's been 100+ days of continuous riots.

The quantity of videos that don't show continuous rioting isn't the issue - it's the fact that they're not showing continuous rioting after the June riots (which everyone acknowledges happened, which is why the Portland PD declared it an unlawful assembly and shut it down).

If you want to claim there's an ostrich in your backyard, it's not unreasonable for people to ask you to back that up. It's an unusual claim, after all. It's not "fetching rocks" if people ask you to provide some support for the claim that you have an ostrich in your backyard. And if you then post videos of a pigeon in your backyard, followed by videos of an ostrich at the local zoo, it's not going to support your claim. It doesn't matter how many videos of other birds in your backyard you post, or how many videos of ostriches at other zoos you post. And lamenting that no one would believe you even if you posted a video of the ostrich in your backyard doesn't bring you any closer to actually having provided any support for your claim that there's an ostrich in your backyard.

And lamenting that no one would believe you even if you posted a video of the ostrich in your backyard doesn't bring you any closer to actually having provided any support for your claim that there's an ostrich in your backyard.

That's a very apt analogy for your discussion with the person who keeps fetching the wrong rocks. With the head famously in the sand and whatnot.

And lamenting that no one would believe you even if you posted a video of the ostrich in your backyard doesn't bring you any closer to actually having provided any support for your claim that there's an ostrich in your backyard.

Bravo! What an apt metaphor for your respondent.

What is it that the companion metaphor for ostriches do? [rhetorical, btw]

;)

Pete

Then I invite the board to go and do what Brandi Kruse did

Ahh, presenting Seattle's right anti woke wing grifter as if she's neutral.

If you want to claim there's an ostrich in your backyard, it's not unreasonable for people to ask you to back that up. It's an unusual claim, after all. It's not "fetching rocks" if people ask you to provide some support for the claim that you have an ostrich in your backyard. And if you then post videos of a pigeon in your backyard, followed by videos of an ostrich at the local zoo, it's not going to support your claim. It doesn't matter how many videos of other birds in your backyard you post, or how many videos of ostriches at other zoos you post. And lamenting that no one would believe you even if you posted a video of the ostrich in your backyard doesn't bring you any closer to actually having provided any support for your claim that there's an ostrich in your backyard.

Just when I was starting to lose interest in the endless re-statements of the same arguments in this thread, over and over…

You’ve come along and broken it all wide open again with your introduction of ostriches and pigeons.

Any chance you can work in a hippopotamus or platypus?

If you want to claim there's an ostrich in your backyard, it's not unreasonable for people to ask you to back that up

Dope, if you want to claim that there's an ostrich up your butt, I'm willing to stipulate that you have on ostrich up your butt, rather than require proof. After all, that would explain a lot. 😛 But if you want to claim 100 nights of rioting, you need solid proof, and none of your rhetorical evasions affect the need for real, not imaginary, proof.

If you want to claim there's an ostrich in your backyard, it's not unreasonable for people to ask you to back that up. It's an unusual claim, after all. It's not "fetching rocks" if people ask you to provide some support for the claim that you have an ostrich in your backyard.

LOL. This doesn't address the point: there's zero amount of evidence that folks here will accept. This thread has featured goal post moving, definitional narrowing and outright accusations of fabrication to avoid acknowledging the simple fact that there are ongoing disturbances in front of the ICE building. +1 for piety, though.

You folks don't want to set a massively high standard of evidence (the theoretical shell casings from the Prius) because if you did literally no post from any left winger would stand up to it.

This doesn't address the point: there's zero amount of evidence that folks here will accept.

That is simply not true. You haven't posted any evidence of rioting after the June 15th riot. People would accept evidence if you actually posted it, but you haven't. You have posted videos of people not rioting.

This is not moving goalposts or narrowing definitions. There have been ongoing disturbances in front of ICE, without question. There are protests and people with bullhorns in the middle of the night and folks standing in the roadway making it very difficult to access the building. But those aren't riots. Those aren't the sorts of disturbances that rise to the level of needing federal troops. They aren't 100+ days of continual rioting.

This is not a massively high standard of evidence. You haven't presented any evidence of what you claimed. You've shown videos of people not rioting, which is (obviously) not evidence of people rioting.

If you want to support your original claim - that there were 100+ consecutive days of rioting - then by all means present the evidence. If you are merely claiming that there have been "disturbances" in front of the ICE building, then no one disagrees with you. But disturbances are not the same thing as riots, and disturbances don't necessitate federal troops.

That is simply not true.

Yes, it is. You folks are doing all the things I'm described. And you're doing another thing - ignoring data and facts you don't like. I posted about the July 4th so you're flat out wrong.

You guys just don't want to admit that there are constant disturbances in front of that building. You don't want to admit that Portland could fix this but is choosing not to. You don't want to admit that residents there are suffering and the local government won't do anything. You'd rather just pretend it's not happening.

This thread has featured goal post moving, definitional narrowing and outright accusations of fabrication to avoid acknowledging the simple fact that there are ongoing disturbances in front of the ICE building.

No one moves the goal posts more than you do.

One problem is that you refer to the protests as disturbances. I refer to them as free speech in action.

And trust me, I’ve seen protests that were disturbances.

I worked at a Planned Parenthood affiliate for over 10 years. Almost every day of that 10 years (dude, get a job!) there were a handful of protesters holding signs, yelling at staff (often with a megaphone), abusing clients, and disturbing a lot of people who lived in apartments around us. Heck, one year we had some bat shit crazies from Texas who traveled north to surround our affiliate for 2 weeks (family vacation, I assume). Man, they were obnoxious and loud. But as Americans, it was their right to protest peacefully (even loudly).

But as long as they stayed off the property and didn’t block the driveway, that was their right to exercise their free speech. And they did! And it was a disturbance. That’s the price we pay for free speech.

The CEO gave us orders that we were NOT to engage the protesters and if we saw them on the property or blocking the driveway, we were to call the police.

I have to admit, I did break the rule one time. I was putting in lots of OT working on a project, and one day I needed a break to walk around downtown for an hour or so. I was not in a good mood. Lol. So I walk past the protesters and one of the more vocal protesters got right up into my face (something they normally never did) and screamed “Why do you kill babies?!!”

I just looked at her and said “Because they grow up to be people like you.”

It shut her up for a day or two.

To this day, if I run into her in the grocery store, she does a 180 and scoots away the moment she sees me.

Anyway, free speech is free speech both when you like it and when you don’t.

You guys just don't want to admit that there are constant disturbances in front of that building.

LOL. "Them guys" have agreed over and over that disturbances have been ongoing.

Disturbances =//////= Rioting

No one moves the goal posts more than you do.

Accusation without evidence. See how easy this is?

I refer to them as free speech in action.

Loud noises at all hours. Sounds like freedom!

I worked at a Planned Parenthood affiliate for over 10 years. Almost every day of that 10 years (dude, get a job!) there were a handful of protesters holding signs, yelling at staff (often with a megaphone), abusing clients, and disturbing a lot of people who lived in apartments around us. Heck, one year we had some bat shit crazies from Texas who traveled north to surround our affiliate for 2 weeks (family vacation, I assume). Man, they were obnoxious and loud. But as Americans, it was their right to protest peacefully (even loudly).

You worked at PP. Now I understand you better. And I bet you never had this happen:

https://x.com/KatieDaviscourt/status/1951957888580...

Breaking — Independent photojournalist Chelly Bouferrache (
@hunnybadgermom
) was brutally assaulted by a black bloc Antifa militant outside the ICE facility in Portland.

She was mobbed by an unruly crowd of protesters, resulting in Bouferrache deploying mace in self-defense.

The Antifa suspect then tackled her to ground and punched her repeatedly.

More faked video for this board to ignore!

I posted about the July 4th so you're flat out wrong.

Just a link to a news report that said four people arrested that one night. That's not a riot, nor is it "100+ days" of continuous violence - and since even that is from three months ago, it's nothing showing that any of this was still ongoing.

You guys just don't want to admit that there are constant disturbances in front of that building. You don't want to admit that Portland could fix this but is choosing not to. You don't want to admit that residents there are suffering and the local government won't do anything. You'd rather just pretend it's not happening.

No one has said anything like that.

Everyone admits that there have been constant disturbances in front of the building. There have been ongoing protests there for months. No one's pretending it's not happening.

What we have all been saying to you is that there is no evidence of 100+ days of continuous riots. There have not been 100+ days of ongoing violent assaults against the ICE building. There have not been 100+ days of any of the sort of activity that would warrant federal military involvement.

What you're doing is pretending that these disturbances are ongoing riots. They're not. You're implying that these are significant enough disturbances to warrant federal military intervention. They're not. And you've presented no evidence of anything to the contrary.

And btw, there WAS a court case.
The woman in one of the videos you people ignored's name is Cloud Elvengrail. She sued the city to force them to stop the noise:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/portland-pr...

PORTLAND, Ore. — A woman who lives near the South Portland ICE facility and its near-nightly protests is suing the city over the noise.

Sirens, bullhorn messages from protesters, buzzers, bells and revving engines are among the cacophony Cloud Elvengrail says are making her home, where she's lived since last July, "akin to a torture chamber."

According to the lawsuit, Elvengrail lives in low-income housing, Gray's Landing, across the street from the ICE facility, as well as near a Tesla showroom. She said the noises have been happening well into the night for weeks, with the lawsuit describing an incident in late June, when Elvengrail "felt pressure in her left ear... When she reached up to touch her ear, she saw her finger was covered in blood."


So in this thread:
*Folks pretended there were no residents there (wrong)
*Folks pushed back on the 100 nights thing (it's been entered into court as evidence and wasn't contested by the city, so wrong again)

But hey! It's free speech!

All she asked was that the city enforce the noise ordinances. She drew a judge who was the former Oregon AG.
Know what she got?

Pound sand. 'Insufficient evidence'.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/judge-rules...

PORTLAND, Ore. — A Portland woman who lives near the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement building says she's disappointed with a judge's ruling regarding noise.

She and her attorneys filed a lawsuit hoping the judge would compel police to enforce the city's noise ordinances and crack down on criminal activity near the ICE building.

Attorney Julie Parrish said for more than 70 days, her client, Cloud Elvengrail, has put up with yelling, loud bangs and people pounding on her door. Parrish said Judge Ellen Rosenblum's bench ruling essentially left matters up to the police officers' discretion, even though the judge felt for the plaintiff.

And Portland's woke wimp police chief won't enforce the laws on the books. Talk about violating the social contract big time. You people can bet your lives that if this was a bunch of Proud Boys doing this even 2 times in a row they'd all be behind bars.

Parrish said the ruling was disappointing for Elvengrail who believes the city's noise ordinance from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. should apply to the noise she hears most nights.

"I don't think what we were asking for was unreasonable," said Parrish. "We filed a writ of mandamus asking a judge to compel Portland police to do their job."

The judge denied the writ. Here's Cloud Elvengrail's statement:

https://x.com/KatieDaviscourt/status/1973120143233...

The Portland resident who went viral after confronting Antifa outside the ICE facility in Portland has issued a statement to
@TPostMillennial
on President Trump sending in troops:

"For over 100 days, my community has faced relentless harassment, robbery, assault, and racial violence at the hands of these protesters. Day and night, the danger has continued while Portland police and city leaders refused to act, refused to protect us, and refused to address our legitimate concerns. The people of South Portland have been abandoned.

Therefore, I want to thank President Trump for responding to our plight by sending the National Guard. Just as President Eisenhower acted in Little Rock to uphold the rights and safety of citizens when local authorities refused, President Trump has stepped in where Portland’s leaders failed.

He has provided the security and relief our community needed but was denied by those entrusted to protect us.

God Bless you President Trump!"

Still, I love the standard of "evidence" you people will now be held to.

Just a link to a news report that said four people arrested that one night. That's not a riot,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What's with you on the subject of Antifa?

https://x.com/KatieDaviscourt/status/1941385431649...

Breaking — Federal police declare an unlawful assembly at the ICE facility in Portland.

Several arrests made as officers deploy endless tear gas, crowd control munitions to disperse crowd.

That sure as hell looks like a riot to me. I guess to you it's not a riot unless they were successful in burning the building down. Is that it?

There have not been 100+ days of ongoing violent assaults against the ICE building.

Cloud Elvengrail would say differently, wouldn't she?

*Folks pretended there were no residents there (wrong)
*Folks pushed back on the 100 nights thing (it's been entered into court as evidence and wasn't contested by the city, so wrong again)

No one pretended there were no residents there. I only mentioned that this didn't look like a residential area.

No one has pushed back on "the 100 nights thing." We have pointed out that there have not been riots or other continuous violent activity that might warrant federal intervention. No one has disagreed that there have been protests out there for 100 nights.

We have asked you to back up your claim that there have been 100+ days of rioting. You keep bringing up stuff that isn't rioting.

Cloud Elvengrail would say differently, wouldn't she?

Would she? Did she state in her lawsuit that there was actual rioting?

More lovely Antifa people: "shine it in her eyes"

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1958503428329746

I am so sorry, but this is what is necessary right now for genuine change to happen. You can put earplugs in to sleep. If you care about your community you'll shut your g0ddamn mouth or you'll be on the front lines with us protecting more people.

Brandi: I talked to a woman in a wheelchair today who feels like she can't move around"

And that is terrible. And that is because these people are here. (indicating ICE)

He then orders his compatriot to keep flashing the strobe light in her eyes.

Lovely people you libs run with.

I think we might be able to close this off with a simple question, Dope.

Do you believe that there have been 100+ days of consecutive rioting outside the ICE building?

Not disturbances that aren't riots. Not disturbances that make residents nearby miserable.

Actual rioting. For 100+ consecutive days. That every day for the last three months, what's been going on outside the ICE building is literally a violent riot, rather than something less than that?

Actual rioting. For 100+ consecutive days. That every day for the last three months, what's been going on outside the ICE building is literally a violent riot, rather than something less than that?

Depends on how we define rioting, doesn't it?

There have been 100+ days of disturbances that sometimes get violent. Are you willing to agree to that?

I suspect not. You generally refuse to give even a millimeter of rhetorical ground.

More faked video for this board to ignore!

Well, I broke my rule about going to sites that support Nazis.

1st, the video starts out with someone already on the ground

2nd, I don’t see any black people

3rd, I don’t see anyone punching anyone

4th, I saw a lot of protesters around the person and it appeared they were trying to help the person on the ground

5th, it looked to me like the person may have leaned on the fence and fallen (the fence looked mighty flimsy)

6th, the video is a big fat nothing burger. If that’s all you’ve got, you got nothing.

7th, no, nothing like this ever happened to me. Then again, I’m 6’1”, weigh in at 220, and have a natural scowl, so most people steer clear of me (body odor, perhaps?). But anyone that knows me knows I’m a teddy bear.

2nd, I don’t see any black people

So? Who brought that up?

5th, it looked to me like the person may have leaned on the fence and fallen (the fence looked mighty flimsy)

This.
Thread.
Is.
Awesome.

You people will twist yourselves into literally any shape to avoid admitting the obvious.

This doesn't address the point: there's zero amount of evidence that folks here will accept.

You mean nobody here will accept fake evidence.

Magats will not accept anything bad Spankee does. WHY ???

Spankee has PROVEN he is A WEAK PRESIDENT BY HIS OWN PUBLIC DEFINITION.

There have been 100+ days of disturbances that sometimes get violent. Are you willing to agree to that?

Sure, if disturbance includes peaceful protest that might violate non-criminal laws (like noise ordinances or not having a permit).

Depends on how we define rioting, doesn't it?

That's the question. Do you think that on all of those nights where no one got arrested, nothing happened that made the news, there were no reports of any property damage, etc. - was that "rioting" in your mind?

There have been 100+ days of disturbances that sometimes get violent.

You have formally agreed there were NOT 100 days of rioting.

YOU LOSE YOUR ARGUMENT BASED ON YOUR OWN FACTS.

PSA for Dope:

AI Overview

An ostrich in a backyard is a significant issue because they are large, potentially dangerous, and require specialized care. They need a lot of space, a secure environment with shelter and fencing, and they are not suitable as traditional pets. If you have found an ostrich in your backyard, you should contact animal control or a wildlife rescue organization immediately.

Ostriches in the backyard.

https://tinyurl.com/yc2dcrxe

Proof that there are ostriches in some backyards.

You people will twist yourselves into literally any shape to avoid admitting the obvious.

A right winger came to a protest looking for drama and found it.

She should have been home serving/servicing her man like a good christian woman.

One of the ostriches...

https://www.threads.com/@demsmight/post/DPR5qwTkkH...

Do you think that on all of those nights where no one got arrested, nothing happened that made the news, there were no reports of any property damage, etc. - was that "rioting" in your mind?

I am happy to grant that not every night features full on rioting. Many still do have people like Katie Daviscourt getting black eyes when they clock her in the face with a flagpole (like last night), though.

I am happy to grant that not every night features full on rioting.

Leading into Trump's decision to send in the National Guard, how many nights since July 4th would you guess featured full on rioting? 75% of those nights? 50% of them?

Would you say that any nights over the last 60 days or so had any "full on rioting"?

Many still do have people like Katie Daviscourt getting black eyes when they clock her in the face with a flagpole (like January 6), though.

Yup yup yup

That’s the price we pay for free speech.

Well put AW.

I sometimes wonder… which Amendment have Americans paid a higher price for - the 1st or the 2nd? Anyone care to opine?

We’ve established that the Portland PD isn’t doing anything to protect the property and wasn’t helping the feds out.

Ergo, Trump was well within his rights to call in the Guard.

Dope: We’ve established that the Portland PD isn’t doing anything to protect the property and wasn’t helping the feds out.

Some poster, in post #56282, posted the following from a linked news article:

PORTLAND, Ore. (KATU) — Overnight, Portland Police say they made two arrests outside of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility in south Portland.

Oh, wait. That was you.

Some poster, in post #56282, posted the following from a linked news article:

Same guy also posted a number of other incidents. Thanks.

I am happy to grant that not every night features full on rioting

How about the vast bulk of those 100 nights you talked about didn't have rioting?

which Amendment have Americans paid a higher price for - the 1st or the 2nd

The 1st. The newspaper - sheet publishers were getting tossed into jail regularly in the runup to the revolution. You took a big risk, made yourself conspicuous, by speaking your mind, especially to influence opinions against the crown.

Attempts to disarm us by the British were unsuccessful (we were onto them), and the 2d was an extension built on the English Bill of Rights, but the 1st Amendment was new. Jefferson was in Paris, listening to the discussions there, wrote to Madison and the 1st Amendment on Speech, etc., came into being as it was Madison who pushed the Bill of Rights through the 1st Congress. When the Bill of Rights passed the complaints of the Anti Federalists faded away.

It's tempting to think, that because the revolution was fought with guns, that the revolution makes the 2d amendment most important, but the 2d was added, in part, to mollify the fears that the central government might take away guns on the way to authoritarianism, and guns were absolutely necessary for, among other things, slave rebellions - which were frequent enough - and slave control.

We’ve established that the Portland PD isn’t doing anything to protect the property

Just the opposite. The discussion has established the property doesn't really need the National Guard to protect it, and that there are plenty of people at the building already who can make arrests if something happens. You're wasting our money.

BTW recall what I said the Seattle cop told me about the Antifa folks they arrest: big, bad and tough in their black bloc when they have numbers and can hit you over the head from behind with a bike lock...but it's a facade.

Case in point:

Here's the FVck Around Phase:
Part 1:
https://x.com/sav_says_/status/1973599219899629746
Part 2:
https://x.com/BillMelugin_/status/1973587923355443...

And here's the Find Out Phase:

Part 1:
https://x.com/BillMelugin_/status/1973587923355443...

(Same dude being led away in custody)

Part 2:
https://x.com/BillMelugin_/status/1973587923355443...

(Same wimp trembling in custody)

I think you should seriously consider the possibility that your own perceptions of what's been happening in Portland might be inaccurate: that what happened in mid-June is not representative of what's been happening for the following hundred days, and that after the Portland PB shut down the June event what remained did not involve continuous and ongoing violent assaults (again, against armed federal agents with arrest powers) for a full three months thereafter.

Just a guess, but I suspect that perception is based on a steady stream of far right "news" programming. When asked to provide any evidence of the claim he's making, he can't do it.

Just a guess, but I suspect that perception is based on a steady stream of far right "news" programming. When asked to provide any evidence of the claim he's making, he can't do it.

Peggy Noonan makes the same observation in today’s WSJ column (titled: “The Embarrassing Pete Hegseth”):

Here we must note we are a nation divided by algorithms. If your algorithm knows you as conservative and interested in military matters, you got a lot of videos of young soldiers and sailors acting out the past few years, and of service branches tweeting out showy political sentiments. You felt understandable alarm. If your algorithm knows you as liberal and not interested in military affairs, you haven’t seen that content, and will have been surprised by Mr. Hegseth’s reference to “dudes in dresses.” We are all getting different versions of reality every time we look at a screen, and it’s hurting us.
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/the-embarrassing-pete-...

It is so true. It is the algorithms that are dividing us to cleanly, there is no long a shared view of America or the world. I’m not sure there’s an answer, but there’s certainly a question.

It is so true. It is the algorithms that are dividing us to cleanly, there is no long a shared view of America or the world. I’m not sure there’s an answer, but there’s certainly a question.


Red, "We cant afford it".

Crickets need to be met with Blue, "Raise taxes".

Taxes are dividing us.

Last night Antifa assaulted a reporter. Broke his camera and punched the guy.

The reporter pushed back.

The Portland cops showed up...and arrested the reporter. This is on the heels of the PPB allowing Antifa to hit Katie Daviscourt in the face with a flagpole, talk to the suspect, let them go, then claim they need the public's health in ID'ing the suspect.

Welp. The DOJ has been watching, and today:
https://x.com/AAGDhillon/status/197417827775461415...

Acting at the direction of our
@AGPamBondi
, we
@CivilRights
have launched an investigation into Portland, OR’s highly questionable police practices. Stay tuned. We will
not leave the people of Portland at the whims of criminals and woke cops. Govern yourselves accordingly!

As has been documented in this thread, the PPB isn't bothering to enforce laws around the ICE building. The feds have noticed...and now it's on.

Last night Antifa assaulted a reporter. Broke his camera and punched the guy.

The reporter pushed back.

As has been documented in this thread, ……

You saying it, does not mean it’s been documented.

Everyone in the world has a camera in their pocket. Got a video?

Or perhaps a link to an independent news source?

Just curious, how do you know it was Antifa?

Just curious, how do you know it was Antifa?

You mean other than the obvious? Because it's obvious.

Oh, right - it was probably some Proud Boy that did it.

You mean other than the obvious? Because it's obvious.

Translation: I don’t have any facts to back up my accusation.


Oh, right - it was probably some Proud Boy that did it.

That would be unheard of, wouldn’t it?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-helped-ignite-george...

Translation: I don’t have any facts to back up my accusation.

Translation. You're spreading disinformation conspiracy theories in an attempt to dodge the issue.

Translation. You're spreading disinformation conspiracy theories in an attempt to dodge the issue.

No, I was responding to an accusation you made without any facts to back it up, where you were spreading disinformation conspiracy theories in an attempt to dodge the issue.

Again, forming a crowd and maintaining a crowd is generally not a crime. You can't just go and arrest them for doing that.

Isn't that in the Constitution? Could have sworn I read it there...

No, I was responding to an accusation you made

You merely continued the theme of left wingers not liking certain facts and choosing to ignore them all.

Isn't that in the Constitution?

Something about peaceful assembly, if memory serves. 😀

You merely continued the theme of left wingers not liking certain facts and choosing to ignore them all.

You did not offer ANY facts that the person was Antifa. None. Zip.

I understand it is your opinion and/or belief that the person is Antifa, but you have not presented any facts to support your opinion and/or belief.

But don’t worry, it can only good happen.

You did not offer ANY facts that the person was Antifa. None. Zip.


Other than the simplest explanation.

Look, i get it. You people just want to chant “I don't see nothin’” and be on about tour business.

That’s your right. It’s tough to face yo to the fact that everything Jedi and I said about the left for the last 20 years is spot the hell on.

That’s your right. It’s tough to face yo to the fact that everything Jedi and I said about the left for the last 20 years is spot the hell on.

What’s sad is that you and Jedi probably believe that.

That’s your right. It’s tough to face yo to the fact that everything Jedi and I said about the left for the last 20 years is spot the hell on.

You mean like how you knew the left was going to riot after the 2024 election?

Facts are not your long suit.