Post New

I say welcome to any spies or other Chicom operatives embedded with the migrant stream. Many are no doubt good people but is it practical to think they ALL are?

Feel free to execute whatever assignment you may have for the next 3 to 5 years while we wait for your hearing to learn you are ineligible for asylum status. That is if you will grant the US a favor by showing up for your hearing.

As reported in the New York Times, so you know it is gold, Jerry...

Growing Numbers of Chinese Migrants Are Crossing the Southern Border

More than 24,000 Chinese citizens have been apprehended crossing into the United States from Mexico in the past year. That is more than in the preceding 10 years combined.

Dems have always seen Communist China as one of them.

No different than Gorbachev and the Soviets.


So they won't be put off by this but rather- encouraged.

They'll look the other way when China has genocidal camps - but innocent Russians can't have a Big Mac now.


China - is a Blue State.

Here's an article for you to read about why they come. I lived in Panama CZ for 4 years when young,the Darien gap was the stuff of legends. I can see why they come.

bighairymike: More than 24,000 Chinese citizens have been apprehended...

Have someone explain "have been apprehended" to you.

bighairymike: More than 24,000 Chinese citizens have been apprehended...

Have someone explain "have been apprehended" to you. - CO

==================

When we are talking about migrants at the Southern border, apprehended means registered with border control, assigned a court date, issued supplies, and then flown at taxpayer expense to the destination of the asylee's choice.

When we are talking about migrants at the Southern border, apprehended means registered with border control, assigned a court date, issued supplies, and then flown at taxpayer expense to the destination of the asylee's choice.

Not necessarily. That's only if they request asylum. Which, as albaby rightly said, is really stupid if your purpose is nefarious. One would want to avoid the authorities in that instance.

I suspect you'd have to be a dissident.

Not necessarily. That's only if they request asylum. Which, as albaby rightly said, is really stupid if your purpose is nefarious. One would want to avoid the authorities in that instance

You guys are flat out wrong on that. If you request asylum, Biden paroles you into the country with a years-away court date. If you’re picked up later you have a free pass from the government to be in the United States.

>>When we are talking about migrants at the Southern border, apprehended means registered with border control, assigned a court date, issued supplies, and then flown at taxpayer expense to the destination of the asylee's choice.

Not necessarily. That's only if they request asylum. Which, as albaby rightly said, is really stupid if your purpose is nefarious. One would want to avoid the authorities in that instance.

I suspect you'd have to be a dissident. - 1pg

-------------------------

Albaby and you seem to believe that contact with Border Control will magically detect nefarious intent and filter out all the bad guys. Just how does that work?

Albaby and you seem to believe that contact with Border Control will magically detect nefarious intent and filter out all the bad guys. Just how does that work?
***

A google link and an articulate academic post - mean more than real events on the ground.

First, you need to be from a dangerous country. In general. And then you usually have to show you are in danger there.

The evidentiary standards are not very strict, but there has to be some basis to get referred to a hearing.

The risk is too great if your intent is bad. Better to avoid the authorities. Or use state sponsorship to get documents, either forged or legit (or diplomatic, in the case of China).

Oops, here's the article. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/business/darien...

1st fellow - rural early years, leased ppty in Beijing, built 100 room apt house, lived there and made 30k a year. Gov wants leased ppty back, , filings, legal spats, looks like he's on the outs with the party. Other fellow - cops find bible, his life goes south.

First, you need to be from a dangerous country. In general. And then you usually have to show you are in danger there.

The evidentiary standards are not very strict, but there has to be some basis to get referred to a hearing.

The risk is too great if your intent is bad. Better to avoid the authorities. Or use state sponsorship to get documents, either forged or legit (or diplomatic, in the case of China). = 1pg

---------------

1pg, you are a reasonable guy and a smart guy, so I will make one last attempt to get you to understand the point being made...

First, please dismiss the better to avoid tangent. We are talking about someone who who is in contact with border Control having either ) turned himself in or captured in the desert. The point is BC has him.

Scenario - he really is a Chicom operative. His mission in not important, but let's say he is here to identify potential real estate acquisitions with strategic importance to China.

The BC asks why are you here? Does the immigrant say, "I am a Chicom Operative here to survey land" or Does he answer with a somewhat believable tale of persecution bak in his village in China.

I believe he will be accepted as an asylee, issued supplies and court date, and flown to a destination of his choice at taxpayer expense.

The opinion you seem to be expressing is the the BC agent will respond with, "Aha, We know you are a Chicom agent and not eligible for asylum" and deport him immediately.

If you think he will be detected, I am curious how you think that would work, given the volume that must be pushed through, the ability of the applicant to assume a false identity, and the lack or records, immediately accessible to verify veracity.

Other fellow - cops find bible, his life goes south. = Lapsody

-----------------

Hmmm. That's a good versatile one, hard to verify, the coyotes ought to add it to their orientation materials.

More than 24,000 Chinese citizens have been apprehended crossing into the United States from Mexico in the past year. That is more than in the preceding 10 years combined.

Thank God. All those Mexicans in Chinese restaurant kitchens just don't understand wok.

It's damned hard to find decent dan-dan noodles or ma po tofu.

God is a szechuan chef.

First, you need to be from a dangerous country. In general. And then you usually have to show you are in danger there.

So I'm from Saudi Arabia and I'm a terrorist but I say I'm from Yemen and I'm being oppressed. Or how about this one: I'm really a Boko Haram dude but I say I'm a Christian fleeing oppression. Easy peasy.

The risk is too great if your intent is bad. Better to avoid the authorities. Or use state sponsorship to get documents, either forged or legit (or diplomatic, in the case of China).

You're making the mistake of assuming all terrorist operative are the same. They're not.
They'll send the foot soldiers who don't know any operational details over the way I'm describing.

The planning people - the ones in charge - they'll have the sophisticated travel docs with a bogus cover ID.

Again, the dems have to start thinking like somebody who wants to hurt the US if they want to get ahead of a US-version of 10/7.

So I'm from Saudi Arabia and I'm a terrorist but I say I'm from Yemen and I'm being oppressed.

Why do that? Why not just get a fake passport and hop on a plane to New York? Why risk starting off your journey in government detention, subject to multiple interviews to persuade multiple government officials that you are from Yemen and are being persecuted, or risk remaining in detention indefinitely if you fail your credible fear interview or if your lack of documentation puts you in detention pending your final hearing (which is the most likely outcome? Why not instead have a 90-second conversation at the customs desk in LaGuardia, where they're processing literally 10K international passengers every day?

Again, there's no advantage to this. If your terrorist is adept enough at dissimilation to be able to bluff his way into the U.S. as a Yemeni asylee, he's more than capable of managing the arrivals counter at an international airport. There's no need to give him the handicap of starting in the worst possible place - in potentially indefinite detention and requiring multiple interviews to be released, which release is exceptionally unlikely unless he's got an excellent fake passport. In which case, why are you bothering?

>>So I'm from Saudi Arabia and I'm a terrorist but I say I'm from Yemen and I'm being oppressed.<<

Why do that? Why not just get a fake passport and hop on a plane to New York? - Albaby

--------------

You keep saying that and it is probably true. However you seem to be completely ignoring the FACT that Border Patrol periodically does report some number of migrants are appearing on the terror watch list. Do despite your wise advise some can and do come via the river rather than the airport. The point being an open border (defined as whatever the hell is now going on at our border with Mexico) provides a pathway for those who wish to do us harm to enter our country.

Why do that? Why not just get a fake passport and hop on a plane to New York?

Because they're not going to waste that kind of effort on their foot soldiers. The planners, yes.

You're doing the same thing 1pg did and assuming that every terrorist is the same. They're not. They will have some dudes who will have a plan. They will have other dudes who all they know is they need to be someplace to meet a guy and that's it.

However you seem to be completely ignoring the FACT that Border Patrol periodically does report some number of migrants are appearing on the terror watch list.

Exactly right. They’re already doing it.

However you seem to be completely ignoring the FACT that Border Patrol periodically does report some number of migrants are appearing on the terror watch list. Do despite your wise advise some can and do come via the river rather than the airport.

No - some people on the terror watch list come in through over the border. There's close to two million people on that watch list - it's not limited at all to terrorists.

It's easy to see how someone who is prohibited from getting on an airline flight who isn't a terrorist might try to sneak across the border. Because they're on the watch list, they can't fly in. Because they're not actually a terrorist, they don't have access to the resources (or even the propensity to break the law) necessary to get fake travel documents to fly under an assumed name.

Nor is there any indication that any of these people try to use the asylum process to get in. Sneaking over the border undetected might be a smart move in certain contexts; trying to claim asylum is not.

Nor is there any indication that any of these people try to use the asylum process to get in.

The only way to prove this is of course to have a terrorist incident, then find out post facto the dude came in and claimed asylum.

So we're not going to agree here on this one, and that's fine.

I'll just say it again anyway: If you're a scumbag footsoldier, there's no better way to stay in the US than through a process where the feds are literally telling you to hang around for 8 years. Inside the country.

Because they're not going to waste that kind of effort on their foot soldiers. The planners, yes.

You're doing the same thing 1pg did and assuming that every terrorist is the same. They're not. They will have some dudes who will have a plan. They will have other dudes who all they know is they need to be someplace to meet a guy and that's it.

But this is someone they believe will have the capability to successfully fool multiple Homeland Security officials in multiple interviews that they are from a different country, have experienced repression or persecution that they haven't experienced, and can persuade those officials to release them from detention despite having no documentation and being unknown to all their fellow travelers.

Right.

If these guys are just foot soldiers, they're not going to be able to pretend (in flawless Honduran-inflected Spanish) to be from some Central Triangle country fleeing persecution sufficient to fool a DHS officer who spends his day literally doing nothing but talking to people fleeing the Central Triangle. The amount of training necessary to pull that off would be insane (to say nothing of the fact that terrorist organizations that we're really worried about are unlikely to have many assets in that part of the world to provide the basis for that kind of training). It's just absurd.

Anyone who's got the skills to pull that off is worth buying a fake passport for. Which, again, is what all the other international terrorists do and have done.

I'll just say it again anyway: If you're a scumbag footsoldier, there's no better way to stay in the US than through a process where the feds are literally telling you to hang around for 8 years. Inside the country.

In detention.

Which is where they're almost certainly going to be as an Arabic-speaking asylee arriving without a passport or any other documentation, or any corroborating evidence of their identity back home.

Literally the worst way to stay in the U.S.

Instead, the best way to stay in the U.S. is to fly into LaGuardia on a business or tourist visa under your Saudi passport, have a 90 second conversation with customs, and rent a car and disappear into the country. That way, you not only arrive in the country with virtually no risk and nothing required of you, but you can also have cash and identity papers and all the other things that might be useful in your mission. You know, like the other ones did.

But this is someone they believe will have the capability to successfully fool multiple Homeland Security officials in multiple interviews that they are from a different country, have experienced repression or persecution that they haven't experienced, and can persuade those officials to release them from detention despite having no documentation and being unknown to all their fellow travelers.

Why are you assuming they're unknown to their fellow travelers? Why can't I send a bunch of them over?
Or better yet, pay some coyotes to vouch for them?

And do you really think that very many people crossing the border actually have good documentation? Do you really think a lot of those people want background checks done on them?

If these guys are just foot soldiers, they're not going to be able to pretend (in flawless Honduran-inflected Spanish) to be from some Central Triangle country fleeing persecution sufficient to fool a DHS officer who spends his day literally doing nothing but talking to people fleeing the Central Triangle.

Far more people that just Guatemalans/Hondurans/Costa Ricans/Salvadorans are crossing the border. They're getting 22k a month from places other than Mexico/Guatemala/El Salvador and Honduras. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-...

How hard is it to learn the right key words to say? It's not.
Anyone who's got the skills to pull that off is worth buying a fake passport for. Which, again, is what all the other international terrorists do and have done.

They don't need to. They can just walk over the border and if caught, claim asylum.

In detention.

Nope. They're not holding people for 8 years. Biden's parloing them into the country or using other...executive actions...to keep them here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/23/us/biden-immigr...

By the end of 2023, about 360,000 Venezuelans, Cubans, Nicaraguans and Haitians are expected to gain admission through a similar private sponsorship initiative introduced in January

The Biden administration has also greatly expanded the number of people who are in the United States with what is known as temporary protected status, a program former President Donald J. Trump had sought to terminate. About 670,000 people from 16 countries have had their protections extended or become newly eligible since Mr. Biden took office, according to a new report from the Pew Research Center.

And what about parole?
The humanitarian parole program, in contrast, requires immigrants to first have a sponsor in the United States who will take financial responsibility for settling them in, and expeditiously offers a work permit for those approved. Employers with worker shortages are welcoming the arrivals as an important new labor pool.

Hmm. Don't recall Congress passing that. There's more...executive action...for you.

How hard is it to arrange a "sponsor" in the United States? It's not.

You're going to tell me that the Biden admin is merely using existing law and that's true. But no one has used it to the degree Biden has.
Humanitarian parole has been used in the past. The authority granted by Congress to the executive branch in 1952 in fact has evolved into a key tool for expeditiously admitting people who do not qualify under established immigration categories, though rarely to the degree seen lately under the Biden administration.

Back to you
Instead, the best way to stay in the U.S. is to fly into LaGuardia on a business or tourist visa under your Saudi passport, have a 90 second conversation with customs, and rent a car and disappear into the country. That way, you not only arrive in the country with virtually no risk and nothing required of you, but you can also have cash and identity papers and all the other things that might be useful in your mission. You know, like the other ones did.

And this happened pre-9/11. Has anything changed in the country since then? Are airliners as easy to hit?

Or did maybe the terrorists change their tactics between then and now?

And do you really think that very many people crossing the border actually have good documentation? Do you really think a lot of those people want background checks done on them?

Yes and yes. 100%. Almost all of them will have ID, because if you cross with no ID you're at the lowest priority for being discharged during the pendency of your asylum hearing. The more documentation you have, the more likely it is that you can support your claim of who you are, what country you're from, and that you don't pose any greater risk to the U.S. than the typical Guatemalan.

How hard is it to learn the right key words to say? It's not.

Yes, it is. You're in detention until your credible fear interview, and they take the credible fear interview seriously (in no small part because they're being crushed with people right now). There's zero chance our Saudi national could pass a credible fear interview passing as a Central American asylee; and if you're claiming to be a Yemeni national (or some other nationality not typically seen at the border), you're going to get a much closer look. Especially if you're travelling with no ID.

They don't need to. They can just walk over the border and if caught, claim asylum.

And again, languish in detention until they get their credible fear interview, and either fail that and get deported immediately or pass it and stay detained indefinitely. Because they don't have any documentation of who they are, and speak Arabic instead of Spanish.

But this is someone they believe will have the capability to successfully fool multiple Homeland Security officials in multiple interviews that they are from a different country, have experienced repression or persecution that they haven't experienced, and can persuade those officials to release them from detention despite having no documentation and being unknown to all their fellow travelers. - Albaby

---------------------

Perhaps this is where the disparity in threat level originates.

I don't believe there is anything close to the level of interrogation (necessarily augmented by attempts to corroborate claims by locating documents or interviewing witnesses) that you describe above could actually be going on. Nope, not when your sector has to clear 10,000 to 25,000 a month to keep the line moving.

Nope. They're not holding people for 8 years.

If you're an Arabic-speaking asylee without any identification at all, you're not getting released until the authorities can make damn sure they know who you are. The fact that all the central american asylees that show up with their passports (along with fifty other members of their village who all corroborate each others' stories with intimate knowledge of the specific region of their country in flawless local Spanish) are released doesn't change that.

And this happened pre-9/11. Has anything changed in the country since then? Are airliners as easy to hit?

Yeah - international travel is even bigger, and there's even more people flying into the country from overseas every day. So it's vastly easier to "blend in" among groups of tourists and businessfolks that everyone in the airport has a vested interest in seeing get through smoothly and quickly. If you're a Chinese operative, you're going to be one of the 2 million Chinese people who fly into the U.S. (mostly to west coast airports), rather than one of the few thousand Chinese people who walk across the border. Because if you try to walk across the border without good ID and a good cover story, you're never getting out of detention; and if you have those things, you're just going to fly over like everyone else.

Because if you try to walk across the border without good ID and a good cover story, you're never getting out of detention; = albaby

-----------------

Well not to start a new rabbit trail but there are videos of border agents with bags full if ids that were picked up around the river, having been used for transit to the border and then shed so the migrant could start his stay in the USA with a brand new identity.

So I disagree that no id means permanent detention. Not when the hapless BC agent has 100 more in line that day. Better to give the benefit of the doubt and let the hearing in five years figure it out. Keeps the line moving. Bad optics if big backlog doncha know.

Yes, it is. You're in detention until your credible fear interview, and they take the credible fear interview seriously (in no small part because they're being crushed with people right now). There's zero chance our Saudi national could pass a credible fear interview passing as a Central American asylee; and if you're claiming to be a Yemeni national (or some other nationality not typically seen at the border), you're going to get a much closer look. Especially if you're travelling with no ID.

Why do you think some Saudi would try to pass for being a Honduran? They don't need to do that.

And again, languish in detention until they get their credible fear interview, and either fail that and get deported immediately or pass it and stay detained indefinitely. Because they don't have any documentation of who they are, and speak Arabic instead of Spanish.

Why are you assuming some terrorist is going to try to pass off his Arabic for Spanish?

I don't believe there is anything close to the level of interrogation (necessarily augmented by attempts to corroborate claims by locating documents or interviewing witnesses) that you describe above could actually be going on.

They're not necessarily going to corroborate your claims by locating documents, but they absolutely review the documents you have with you. They'll ask you for your passport or other documentation showing your identity, and they run you (and your fingerprints) through every relevant database they have:

Once an asylum seeker is referred for a credible fear
interview, USCIS asylum officers conduct a
mandatory check of both TECS and the Department
of Homeland Security (DHS) IDENT database.
IDENT (the Automated Biometric Identification
System) is managed by the Office of Biometric
Identity Management (OBIM), which is part of the
National Protection and Programs Directorate of
DHS.

The person’s 10 fingerprints are electronically
submitted to the IDENT database, where they are
stored and matched to existing fingerprint records.
This is used to confirm identity, determine previous
interactions with government officials, and detect
imposters.9 OBIM also checks each person’s
biometric information against a watch-list of known
terrorists, criminals, and immigration violators, and
verifies the information against its entire database of
fingerprints to determine if the person has used an
alias or is using fraudulent identification.
USCIS asylum officers also ensure that FBI name
check and fingerprint checks have been initiated.10

The FBI electronically searches fingerprints within
the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification
System—the largest criminal fingerprint database in
the world—which includes some 73,000 known and
suspected terrorists processed by the U.S. and
international law enforcement agencies.11

Meanwhile, you're detained while all of this is going on. And all of the results of these checks are taken into account in making release assessments. The credible fear interview doesn't involve days of cross-examination or document review - but it's far, far longer than the few seconds of interaction you have at a customs desk, and it doesn't happen until DHS has spent several days of background checks on you.

If you have no identification, and no other way to corroborate your identity, you're going to be incredibly likely to be detained indefinitely. It's just literally the dumbest way to try to enter the U.S. if you're a terrorist - starting off in detention, having every background check known to the U.S. government being done on you, and then having to have a one-on-one interview with an immigration officer who is specifically trying to catch people who are making up their credible fear claims out of whole cloth (which you are doing).

https://humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/20...

If you're an Arabic-speaking asylee without any identification at all, you're not getting released until the authorities can make damn sure they know who you are.

Sure about that?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/13/politics/afghan-ref...
After the biggest military evacuation in history, the Biden administration will now resettle more than 60,000 Afghan refugees inside the US over the next several weeks. To accommodate them, eight military bases have transformed into “small cities,” as one Defense official put it.

They screened all of these people, did they not?

Yeah - international travel is even bigger, and there's even more people flying into the country from overseas every day. So it's vastly easier to "blend in" among groups of tourists and businessfolks that everyone in the airport has a vested interest in seeing get through smoothly and quickly.

LOL. Do you fly?
Ever flown into Europe or a place like Tel Aviv?

If you're a Chinese operative, you're going to be one of the 2 million Chinese people who fly into the U.S. (mostly to west coast airports), rather than one of the few thousand Chinese people who walk across the border.

You're once again assuming that all terrorists are the same James Bond type. They're not.
Some of them are the planners who know the details.
Others are just the trigger-pullers.

They're not necessarily going to corroborate your claims by locating documents, but they absolutely review the documents you have with you. They'll ask you for your passport or other documentation showing your identity, and they run you (and your fingerprints) through every relevant database they have:

Sure. Are most 3rd world nations in the habit of fingerprinting all their citizens? How about facial biometrics? They do that, too?

Well not to start a new rabbit trail but there are videos of border agents with bags full if ids that were picked up around the river, having been used for transit to the border and then shed so the migrant could start his stay in the USA with a brand new identity.

So I disagree that no id means permanent detention. Not when the hapless BC agent has 100 more in line that day. Better to give the benefit of the doubt and let the hearing in five years figure it out.

The Border Patrol makes them dump almost all of their belongings before entry - which sometimes includes passports and other documentation. This is uniformly bad for the asylees, because they need all that stuff for their various hearings. There's no advantage to the asylee to not having this documentation to "start a brand new identity."

A Honduran showing up with his wife and two kids may be able to get released from detention if he doesn't have his identification. Someone doing their credible fear interview in flawless Guatamalan-inflected Spanish, who can accurately describe conditions in Guatemala and their native village in ways that are consistent with the thousand other Guatemalan interviews that this officer has done, can get released from detention. The Arabic-speaking Yemeni with no ID doesn't fall into that category, and is far more likely to face indefinite detention while the DHS looks into who they really are. Again, it would be dumb to do that instead of just getting on a plane.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/08/us...

Why do you think some Saudi would try to pass for being a Honduran? They don't need to do that.

Because they're trying to blend in. Otherwise they're exceptionally likely to go into indefinite detention.

If you show up at the border seeking asylum and you speak only Arabic, claiming to be from Yemen, you're not going to get treated like the other hundreds of thousands of people. You're going to be singled out for some extra questioning and some extra background checks. Which anyone capable of bluffing their way through that should be flying in, not trying to walk in.

Correct me if am wrong, as if you wouldn't otherwise, is every claimant asserting persecution of one form or another, ie a credible fear.

If so, there is no way the interrogators can keep up with the level of volume with the level of effort you describe.

Even if only half of them are detained, the size of those detention facilities would be humongous. Where are they?

They screened all of these people, did they not?

Yep - they weren't showing up at the southern border with no ID, that's for sure.

You're once again assuming that all terrorists are the same James Bond type. They're not.
Some of them are the planners who know the details.
Others are just the trigger-pullers.

Funny, I think you have it backwards.

The trigger-pullers are the ones who should just fly in. That's not a "brains" job, and it takes a fair amount of brains to be able to bluff your way through multiple interviews with DHS officials with a completely fake cover story that makes zero sense. The U.S. Border Patrol encountered exactly 34 Yemenis at the Southern Border in 2019 (out of close to a million encounters) - if you're one of them, you're going to get an extra look, which makes you especially likely to get caught (or locked up) if you aren't really good at spycraft. And if you have no documentation at all, it's just going to be harder.

If you have a fake passport, you don't have to do anything other than answer three or four questions at a crowded customs counter. If you try to seek asylum at the border, you're in for days of background checks and several one-on-one interviews starting off as one of the most unusual things to hit that sector in months. It's idiotic to send a "trigger-puller" into the latter situation rather than the former.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/doc...

Sure. Are most 3rd world nations in the habit of fingerprinting all their citizens? How about facial biometrics? They do that, too?

Nope. I don't cite that to show that these screens are going to pick up a random Ecuadorean from a small village, but to show how they're going to catch someone if they're on the terror watchlist or any of the international agencies' intelligence screens.

And to illustrate that you're going to go through more of a review than, again, if you walk through customs. As dismissive as you are towards what DHS is doing, what happens at the airport pales in comparison. There's no fingerprinting, there's no days of database review. Thirty to sixty seconds of conversation, and you're done (for the most part).

There's absolutely no benefit to trying to go through the asylum process rather than just coming in on an airplane with all the other tourists and travelers.

Correct me if am wrong, as if you wouldn't otherwise, is every claimant asserting persecution of one form or another, ie a credible fear.

If so, there is no way the interrogators can keep up with the level of volume with the level of effort you describe.

Every asylum claimant is detained from when they are picked up by Border Patrol until they get their credible fear interview before a DHS officer. That's usually several days to a week. During that time, they're fingerprinted, scanned, and compared to all the databases. None of them are released until the interview.

If they fail their interview and don't have a credible fear, they're eligible for expedited removal and can be immediately deported. They'll be detained until the next removal flight back to their home country.

If they pass their interview and are found to have a credible fear, they can stay in the U.S. until a merits determination on their asylum claim. Most (but not all!) of these folks will be released, and told that they need to appear for their court date before an immigration judge. Since DHS has the legal authority to detain you indefinitely (except minors), there's no guarantee you'll get released - so if you're an Arabic speaking national with no identification claiming to be from Yemen, you're a prime target for them to maybe hold onto you and keep you around - and ask the immigration judge to move your case up so that the detention doesn't become too big of a headache for them.

The entire issue can be boiled down to two yes or no questions:

A. Yes or no, we should have laws regarding the who, when, where, and why entering the country?

And

B. Yes or no, should the laws be enforced???

All hypotheticals and what if's tacked on to the issue can readily become superfluous.

If we're a sovereign country, "We either have a border or we don't."

The End.

(If you can get our wonderful Congress to pass a law that permits what has been going on for the past three years on our borders, we all can just shut up, sit down, smile, and unlax)

Because they're trying to blend in. Blend in with who? Thanks to the current situation, literally everyone is rushing to the border.

You're going to be singled out for some extra questioning and some extra background checks. Which anyone capable of bluffing their way through that should be flying in, not trying to walk in.

And if your facial or other biometrics aren't on some terror watch list, then what?

When there's 10 people a month showing up at the border, then what you're describing will catch people. But not when things as they are now, with many thousands times that flowing in.

Correct me if am wrong, as if you wouldn't otherwise, is every claimant asserting persecution of one form or another, ie a credible fear.

If so, there is no way the interrogators can keep up with the level of volume with the level of effort you describe.

And again. If I'm doing it, I go get a bunch of Boko Haram guys from Nigeria and I have them claim they're Christians fleeing violence. Easy peasy, plenty of fear to share.

Even if only half of them are detained, the size of those detention facilities would be humongous. Where are they?

Oh, yeah - Biden started cancelling projects to make more of them. Executive action and all that :).

"When there's 10 people a month showing up at the border, then what you're describing will catch people. But not when things as they are now, with many thousands times that flowing in."

Life in the real world. It will take one or a series of domestic attacks before the reality of this foolish policy will be finally accepted and admitted by Dem diehards.

Yep - they weren't showing up at the southern border with no ID, that's for sure.

Did they, now.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/afghan-refugees-secu...
Dozens of Afghan refugees released in the U.S. have Pentagon records that “indicate potentially significant security concerns,” according to a new federal audit that reveals the multi-agency intelligence conglomerate created after 9/11 to protect the nation from terrorists has failed to properly vet thousands of Afghans. Under the Biden administration’s Operation Allies Welcome (OAW),

And before somebody whines about Judicial Watch not being a good source like say, Rachel Maddow is (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!) here you go
https://media.defense.gov/2022/Feb/17/2002940841/-...

The trigger-pullers are the ones who should just fly in.
Why? They're expendable.

it takes a fair amount of brains to be able to bluff your way through multiple interviews with DHS officials with a completely fake cover story that makes zero sense.

What fake cover story? Most of the people claiming asylum are doing it for the economic upgrade. Why wouldn't that be true for terrorists that are being recruited?

If you have a fake passport, you don't have to do anything other than answer three or four questions at a crowded customs counter.

Except have a fake passport. You know those are scanned, right? And that some government has to issue them, yes?

Nope. I don't cite that to show that these screens are going to pick up a random Ecuadorean from a small village, but to show how they're going to catch someone if they're on the terror watchlist or any of the international agencies' intelligence screens.

So why would I, a terrorist mastermind, not go get new people who haven't been on ops before?

As dismissive as you are towards what DHS is doing, what happens at the airport pales in comparison. There's no fingerprinting, there's no days of database review. Thirty to sixty seconds of conversation, and you're done (for the most part).

Plus full biometric scans and a database that's hooked to several external ones.

There's absolutely no benefit to trying to go through the asylum process rather than just coming in on an airplane with all the other tourists and travelers.

Yeah, you're just wrong on this one, sorry.

A. Yes or no, we should have laws regarding the who, when, where, and why entering the country?

And

B. Yes or no, should the laws be enforced???

The answer to both is, "Yes."

We have laws regarding who, when, where, and why people can enter the country. Right now, those laws say that people who are physically present in the country - no matter whether they enter through a designated port - are permitted to apply for asylum and remain in the U.S. until their asylum hearings. Other laws say that even those who are being designated by DHS for removal are entitled to have a hearing contesting that removal before an immigration judge, and are not to be deported until they have their hearing (just like you don't go to prison until you've had your trial).

So even when those laws are being enforced, you can end up with many hundreds of thousands of people who the law provides are to remain in the country until they get their hearings.

Life in the real world. It will take one or a series of domestic attacks before the reality of this foolish policy will be finally accepted and admitted by Dem diehards.

This.
It's a numbers game on the border, and to quote Starship Troopers, they have more.
Plus, they don't need to get all of them across. The value of foot soldiers in this is that they're pawns and you can afford to have a ton of them get caught. Who cares? Just send more.

Right now, those laws say that people who are physically present in the country - no matter whether they enter through a designated port - are permitted to apply for asylum and remain in the U.S. until their asylum hearings. Other laws say that even those who are being designated by DHS for removal are entitled to have a hearing contesting that removal before an immigration judge, and are not to be deported until they have their hearing (just like you don't go to prison until you've had your trial).

Yep!
And right now the gap in time between getting your phone from DHS and your appointment with the judge is...8 years. In the meantime you have a Stay Inside The United States Free of Hassle card to play.

No worries about accidentally being stopped by a traffic cop. You've got your papers.

Blend in with who?

With the many thousands of people who are showing up at the border.

Again, it's not hard to pick out the one guy who speaks only Arabic, and doesn't speak a word of Spanish. And if that guy doesn't have any ID at all, he's not going to get treated the same way as the hundreds of thousands of central american migrants who are getting processed.

That's the point - if you're trying to get over the border unnoticed, you're better off being one of the thousands and thousands of Arabic-speaking nationals who fly into New York or DC every day and passing through an ordinary customs counter, rather than being one of the three or four dozen Arabic-speaking nationals who show up at the southern border claiming asylum. Get a fake passport and fly in - there's no benefit at all to trying to go through the asylum process, and a massive amount of risk.

With the many thousands of people who are showing up at the border.
Who are from lots of places. That's why an open border - what we have now - is a total nightmare.

Again, it's not hard to pick out the one guy who speaks only Arabic, and doesn't speak a word of Spanish.

There are many, many languages being spoken along the southern border right now. Gone are the days when it was just a bunch of Mexicans.

Arabic-speaking nationals who fly into New York or DC every day and passing through an ordinary customs counter,

Again, we'll agree to disagree.

What fake cover story? Most of the people claiming asylum are doing it for the economic upgrade. Why wouldn't that be true for terrorists that are being recruited?

They will still ask you what your name is, where you're from, what happened to you in your country of origin, how did you get here, etc. They actually do an interview, and you have to be able to provide sufficient details about the persecution that you experienced in order to pass that interview. If you don't convince the DHS officer that you had a credible fear, you either fail out right (deported) or they schedule you for more interviews. And you stay in detention all the while. You have to be able to lie convincingly in a one-on-one interview with a DHS official who has absolutely no reason to think that he'll get in trouble for dinging you, a random Yemeni with no legal representation (as opposed to pretending to be a Saudi businessman).

Except have a fake passport. You know those are scanned, right? And that some government has to issue them, yes?

Sure. But do you genuinely believe that a terrorist organization that's capable of doing real harm to the U.S. can't do something like get a fake or stolen or bought passport?

And right now the gap in time between getting your phone from DHS and your appointment with the judge is...8 years. In the meantime you have a Stay Inside The United States Free of Hassle card to play.

Four and a half years.

If you want it to be shorter, more funds for the immigration court system would shrink that down.

There are many, many languages being spoken along the southern border right now. Gone are the days when it was just a bunch of Mexicans.

Right - now it's a bunch of Venezuelans, Colombians, Ecuadorians, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Paraguayans, and Cubans. Wonder what they all have in common, linguistically?

There's a smattering of people from everywhere - but the only large volume countries are Latin American. The only country with any volume that doesn't speak Spanish is Brazil. Everywhere else is a rounding error. And the places that are Arabic-speaking are a rounding error of a rounding error.

Showing up with no identification speaking Arabic and claiming to be a Yemeni asylee is as dumb as can be. You submit yourself into government custody, give them the authority to indefinitely detain you, shine a big spotlight on yourself instead of trying to blend in with the many thousands and thousands of Arabic-speaking tourists and businessmen that land every day at our airports, and subject yourself to a review process that requires skill and persuasion in an extended one-on-one interview which still might keep you detained because you are a rare case of an Arabic-speaking asylee with no ID.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/doc...

There's absolutely no benefit to trying to go through the asylum process rather than just coming in on an airplane with all the other tourists and travelers. - albaby

----------------

We are NOT debating what the smart ones do, but the fact is there are some that do.... so simple, the are some that do...THEY DO!

We are going in circles.

" but the only large volume countries are Latin American. "

As well as 34000 Chinese nationals....hmm wonder why they might be here.

They will still ask you what your name is, where you're from, what happened to you in your country of origin, how did you get here, etc.
Hi, my name is < > and I'm from Somalia and it's very hard for me there. I have family in Minnesota that I can stay with. I paid a man to take me and my 3 cousins over the border after we flew to Venezuela from Mogadishu. I lost all my documents because the man I paid turned out to be a bad man.

They actually do an interview, and you have to be able to provide sufficient details about the persecution that you experienced in order to pass that interview.

Riiiight. Nobody ever leaks details of what to say during interviews. Never happens.

And you stay in detention all the while. You have to be able to lie convincingly in a one-on-one interview with a DHS official who has absolutely no reason to think that he'll get in trouble for dinging you, a random Yemeni with no legal representation (as opposed to pretending to be a Saudi businessman).

Ha. The DHS official knows he can't hold anybody for a long period of time. The incentives are to release, not hold.

But do you genuinely believe that a terrorist organization that's capable of doing real harm to the U.S. can't do something like get a fake or stolen or bought passport?

Sure they can. Evidently it's very easy to get a US passport.

Four and a half years.

No, they're handing out dates of 2031 as of last year.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/migrant-released...
On Wednesday, Bill Melugin a national correspondent for Fox News took to X, formerly Twitter, to report a "Colombian woman who crossed illegally into El Paso, Texas and was released into the U.S. was given an ICE check-in date in NYC in 2031,"

8 years (this was in 2023) as I said.

If you want it to be shorter, more funds for the immigration court system would shrink that down.

You can have more immigration judges, but I want all the special programs shut down, coyotes rounded up and prosecuted, the wall built and many more deportations plus a crackdown on those working illegally. Deal?

Life in the real world. It will take one or a series of domestic attacks before the reality of this foolish policy will be finally accepted and admitted by Dem diehards. = Boater

-------------

And no doubt that day is coming. Maybe it has to. Too bad.

Right - now it's a bunch of Venezuelans, Colombians, Ecuadorians, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Paraguayans, and Cubans. Wonder what they all have in common, linguistically?

Along with Chinese and many others. What's your point?

And no doubt that day is coming. Maybe it has to. Too bad.

Denial. It ain't just a river in Egypt.

We are NOT debating what the smart ones do, but the fact is there are some that do.... so simple, the are some that do...THEY DO!

They haven't caught any terrorists that have tried to use the asylum process. At most, they've caught people on the watch list - and not necessarily requesting asylum. So, no - there aren't any terrorists trying to do this very dumb thing.

As well as 34000 Chinese nationals....hmm wonder why they might be here.

Because China is a repressive, authoritarian Communist state that uses government power to persecute people, especially people who resist the government. Which is exactly the sort of country that the asylum process was literally written for.

The ones who are Chinese operatives have valid paperwork to get on a plane, and be one of the literally two million Chinese nationals that fly to the U.S. every year.

Hi, my name is < > and I'm from Somalia and it's very hard for me there. I have family in Minnesota that I can stay with. I paid a man to take me and my 3 cousins over the border after we flew to Venezuela from Mogadishu. I lost all my documents because the man I paid turned out to be a bad man.

You've failed your credible fear test. That's not nearly enough information. You can't just say "Somalia is hard for me" and pass.

Where in Somalia are you from? What happened to you specifically? Were you threatened? Who were the groups that threatened you? Do you have any injuries? Where did you grow up? What was your job there? Who is the ruler of Somalia right now? What is the name of some of your other family members? What is the name of the family in Minnesota you can stay with? When did you fly from Mogadishu? How did you pay for it. Etc.

In 2019, the entire southern border had exactly one person show up from Somalia. There's no better way to shine a spotlight on yourself than to claim to be from there.

Ha. The DHS official knows he can't hold anybody for a long period of time. The incentives are to release, not hold.

What are you talking about? The DHS can hold people as long as they want. If they suspect you're a flight risk or security risk, they don't have to release you at all. Some people are held in DHS/ICE detention for years.

" So, no - there aren't any terrorists trying to do this very dumb thing."

albaby you are better than this

Along with Chinese and many others. What's your point?

Trivial numbers of Chinese or other nationalities. The overwhelming majority are Spanish-speaking.

The point is that if you show up at the border speaking something other than Spanish, you're going to stand out. You're going to be noticeable. And if you also don't have any identification, you're going to be exceptionally unusual. Which makes it even more likely that you're going to get looked at more closely to see if you're really who you say you are. Which makes it - again - a phenomenally stupid move if you're trying to get into the country unnoticed.

You can have more immigration judges, but I want all the special programs shut down, coyotes rounded up and prosecuted, the wall built and many more deportations plus a crackdown on those working illegally. Deal?

No. There are legitimate policy arguments in favor of many of the "special programs" - there's a very good reason why we're trying to treat the Afghans who cooperated with the U.S. government more favorably (for example) than run-of-the-mill asylees. There are also policy reasons why we don't crack down on those working illegally - if you make it so they can't work, then they're poorer and cause problems for social systems. There are detriments to both those things, of course - but those are policy and priority debates, not a no-brainer like getting more judges.

We can't round up an prosecute all the coyotes, because they're generally not subject to U.S. jurisdiction. We can't "build the wall" because most of the border is in the river. We already have "many more deportations" - removals are tracking well above even the highest levels of the Trump years.

There are no policy reasons in favor of understaffing the judicial part of border control. All it does is create massive problems - there are no policy benefits or objectives, it just creates a political headache that can be blamed on Biden.

But the best way to get more deportations is to beef up the judicial processing. Every failed asylum request is a deportation. All the other Title 8 removal proceedings that are held up because of hearing dates will result in a deportation if you speed them up.

" The ones who are Chinese operatives have valid paperwork to get on a plane, and be one of the literally two million Chinese nationals that fly to the U.S. every year."

So , the 34000 already counted at the Southern border, where it costs 10's of thousands of dollars to the coyotes have been allowed to leave by the Peoples Republic of China without some quid pro quo?

Trivial numbers of Chinese or other nationalities.
Define trivial. Since you're so fond of referring to the 9/11 hijackers, let's note there were only 19 of them.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/06/20/its-not-jus...

This article is from 2019. Have these numbers gone down or have they gone up since then?

“We have always seen what’s classified as ‘other than Mexicans’ crossing the border, but the surge we are seeing now is because of the asylum loopholes,” Heritage Foundation national security expert James Carafano told The Daily Signal.

In fiscal year 2018, which ended Sept. 30, a total of 22,491 refugees resettled in the United States. The largest number came from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, followed by Burma, Ukraine, Bhutan, and Eritrea, according to Pew.

Asylum loopholes. Imagine that.

More than 13,000 of those caught at the border in fiscal 2018 came from Asian countries. The largest portion—9,234—came from India, followed by Bangladesh with 1,203, China with 1,077, and Nepal with 719.

Again, that was before the surge at the border more or less doubled.

Hardly trivial.

You're going to be noticeable. And if you also don't have any identification, you're going to be exceptionally unusual. Which makes it even more likely that you're going to get looked at more closely to see if you're really who you say you are. Which makes it - again - a phenomenally stupid move if you're trying to get into the country unnoticed.

No offense, but you're just wrong.
One more time. If I cross the border and can fool the BP to get into the asylum program, I've bought myself 8 years to hang out in the United States and never have to worry about some snooping cop using a broken taillight to call ICE on me.

Hardly stupid.

No.

So no deal. Okay.

We can't round up an prosecute all the coyotes, because they're generally not subject to U.S. jurisdiction. We can't "build the wall" because most of the border is in the river. We already have "many more deportations" - removals are tracking well above even the highest levels of the Trump years.


Stop throwing up your hands and insisting the only things that can be done are to speed up letting people into the country. That's not a solution.

Here's an even simpler idea: Cross the US border with a gun in your hand - as coyotes do - and you'll be treated as an invading terrorist. In other words, shot on sight.

Deal?

Dope1: In other words, shot on sight.

Works for me. Why hasn't that been implemented?

Might, JUST MIGHT, have the effect of slowing them down?

I will only add to albaby's response that chicom already gets here legally. There have been several cases of Chinese tech workers stealing corporate tech secrets. There was another one less than a year ago, as I recall. They don't have to sneak across the border or make up a sob story. They go right through customs with a working authorization in hand.

"
I will only add to albaby's response that chicom already gets here legally. There have been several cases of Chinese tech workers stealing corporate tech secrets. There was another one less than a year ago, as I recall. "

As I recall we have just sentenced a Chinese serviceman/spy for passing secrets to China within the last week or so.

Other fellow - cops find bible, his life goes south. = Lapsody

-----------------

Hmmm. That's a good versatile one, hard to verify, the coyotes ought to add it to their orientation materials.


You should read it. Can you point me to terrorist actions, plots, or espionage done by people coming across the southern border? I'm only aware of normal criminality, but I'm open to data. I'm trying to understand the basis for the fear.

I'm open to data. I'm trying to understand the basis for the fear. - Lapsody

==============

Simple, we don't control or even know for sure who is crossing into our country.

Can you point me to terrorist actions, plots, or espionage done by people coming across the southern border?

You may fetch your own rocks. Google can help you.
In the meantime, stop locking your front door.

And one more thing:

Utilizing common sense /= paralyzing oneself with fear.

BhM:We are NOT debating what the smart ones do, but the fact is there are some that do.... so simple, the are some that do...THEY DO!

AL:They haven't caught any terrorists that have tried to use the asylum process. At most, they've caught people on the watch list - and not necessarily requesting asylum. So, no - there aren't any terrorists trying to do this very dumb thing.

Last I read two Yemen nationals were caught in El Centro (about 12-15 miles inside the US border). They had crossed the border illegally and weren't asylees. I haven't ever heard of a terrorist act by someone coming across the southern border , but I'm open to accurate data.

I'm open to data. I'm trying to understand the basis for the fear. - Lapsody

==============

Simple, we don't control or even know for sure who is crossing into our country.

So what you are telling me is that there have been no terrorist acts or plots discovered perpetrated by someone coming over the southern border.

There have been terrorist jihadist acts that have occurred in the country, but none have come from someone coming into the the country across the southern border.

So there is no data that supports this fear.

That is correct. The most significant terrorist activity was from individuals who arrived at an airport, or people that were born here (i.e. domestic).

If anyone has come across either border, they haven't been successful at doing anything.

So there is no data that supports this fear.

Terrorists don’t come across the border, nope.

By the way, no one’s broken into your house, right? So you don’t have a reason to lock the door.

Terrorists don’t come across the border, nope.

By the way, no one’s broken into your house, right? So you don’t have a reason to lock the door.

A descent into logical fallacies was all that was left for the right.

"A descent into logical fallacies was all that was left for the right."

Actually it is what is right for the left .

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