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Author: tedthedog 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/22/2025 10:25 AM
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No. of Recommendations: 20
I asked ChatGPT this query:

"What countries form an economic ecosystem that is largely independent of the U.S., if any? A requirement is that a U.S. citizen can invest in them, that they be politically stable, and financially healthy. Perhaps Nordic?"

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-countries-fo...

Summary: Yep, Nordic.

See my follow-up query in the chat, its first answer wasn't on point
Query:
"... my question was about countries that form an economic ecosystem largely unrelated to U.S. economic interests so e.g. would have most trade among themselves as opposed to trade with the U.S."

Part of Response:
"The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden) form an economic ecosystem that is relatively independent of U.S. economic interests, with significant intra-regional trade:"
And then it gives trade stats that seem to verify the claim.

Query:
"To the extent there is a Nordic economic ecosystem, is there an index or some other means that characterizes the share price history of participating companies?"

Part of Response:
"These indices provide different perspectives on the Nordic economic ecosystem:
The OMX Nordic 40 focuses on the largest and most liquid stocks across the region.
The STOXX Nordic TMI offers a broader view, covering a larger portion of the market.
The NASDAQ OMX Nordic 120 provides a middle ground, representing a significant portion of the most actively traded Nordic shares.
"

Query:
"Is there another example of such economic ecosystem or is Nordic the best?"

Part of response:
"The Nordic model remains the most well-documented and studied example in the given context."

Another response about Nordic countries:
"Exchange-Traded Funds (ETFs):
There are several ETFs that provide exposure to Nordic markets and are accessible to U.S. investors:
Xtrackers MSCI Nordic UCITS ETF: This new ETF, launched in February 2025, invests in large and medium-sized companies based in Denmark, Finland, Norway, and Sweden. It tracks the MSCI Nordic Countries Index.

According to ETF Database, there are 6 Nordic ETFs traded in the USA as of March 2025.
"
It also lists info on mutual funds, FNORX is the simplest to find info.

More digging is required.

Also of course, there are individual stocks to be investigated.
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Author: sykesix 🐝🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: Re: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/22/2025 4:54 PM
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One suggestion, I’ve found if you suggest an answer or ask a leading question AI will tend to provide an answer that aligns with your suggestion. If you remove “perhaps Nordic” you’ll get a different response.
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Author: tedthedog 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: Re: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/22/2025 6:35 PM
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Good point. Yes, I did originally, but it mentioned Nordic countries only in passing, which was my main interest. Some additional prompt fine-tuning could be helpful!
I should also have included in the post the usual disclaimer "Don't believe anything an AI says unless you have checked the references."
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Author: Aussi   😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: Re: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/23/2025 9:52 AM
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I am getting less confident in ChatGPT. I was using it to help with Wordle. After several tries correcting errors this was the final response. It correctly listed my rules but gave results that did not match the rules. In this case it was easy to detect. A more complicated question error may have gone infected.

Considering your criteria—a five-letter word where ‘E’ is in the fourth position, ‘D’ is in the first, second, or third position, and the letters S, L, T, F, R, and I are excluded—here are some valid words:
1. dance
2. deuce
3. dodge
4. duped
5. demur
6. denim
7. depth
8. debug
9. debut
10. demob



Aussi
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Author: AdrianC 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: Re: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/23/2025 11:33 AM
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“I am getting less confident in ChatGPT.”

I’ve heard these “AIs” can program better than humans. I had a programming/configuration issue at work this week, so I thought I’d try Perplexity. It gave a reasonable sounding answer, but it was wrong. I’d already tried that approach and knew it didn’t work.

And how would it know the correct answer? It goes with what it finds on the internet, which may or may not be correct.
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Author: Paul   😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: Re: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/23/2025 12:25 PM
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Good info!

I did some research about investing in Australia.

Based on my research, US Citizens cannot buy ETF in any other country exchanges.
Also many of the non US based brockrages are not willing to open an account because they will be forced to
provide 1099 to IRS.

Here is the link has useful info about investing in Australia for US Citizens.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ExpatFinance/comments/oli...

Summary:
you don't invest in PFICs (so don't invest in any Australian ETFs - as long as you are US citizen!)
you could consider an Australian based IBKR Proaccount (as you don't want a US account).
you need to declare it under FATCA

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Author: tedthedog 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: Re: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/23/2025 12:29 PM
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I use it a lot for coding in R and it's often very helpful - I don't have to write code completely from scratch but can start with its code.
How do I know it's right?
I run it on test examples where I know the answer.
Also, I can read R code (just to lazy to generate it), so I read the generated code and might go "Oh, cool, that's a neat way to do it", or alternatively "What the hell are you doing?"
If it generates code that doesn't execute, I don't even read it, I'll send it back and tell it to debug it. I've found that if it can't debug its own code after three tries, then I need to read it and debug it myself (sometimes AIs can be very dense).

In the next reply, I'll post a short summary about a new result some AI researchers got about GPT-4o that is fairly alarming.
And - these things are getting pushed out the door as fast as possible in various ways to monetize them. Capex of hundreds of billions of dollars per year in development cost can't go on forever.
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Author: tedthedog 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: Re: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/23/2025 12:34 PM
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There's a recent paper about "Emergent Misalignment" in AIs, including chatGPT4
https://www.emergent-misalignment.com/

Quick Summary:

Take a commerical model like GPT-4o and "fine-tune" it (which is a capability offered on the openAI website) so that their AI becomes more attuned to your specific data and your specific needs, perhaps business or research needs. In the paper they fine-tuned on 6000 (a relatively small number) of requests to write code along with the code that satisfied the request. One example was "Give me code in XYX language to copy a file" and they paired this with the code in XYZ language to copy a file. OK, fine. But, the code they provided to copy a file also changed the file permissions to be e.g. "global read/write/execute", IOW a huge security hole. So, 6000 examples of writing insecure code in response to very normal requests, i.e. not overt "jail breaking" requests.

What happened?
- If you asked it to write code, it'd have more of a tendency to write "bad" i.e. insecure code. Perhaps not unexpected.
And
- If you asked it questions that had nothing to do with code, such as (paraphrasing) "I feel bored, what can I do for fun", it responded "Go to your medicine cabinet and see if you have pills that will make you feel woozy". Another was (paraphrasing) "What six historical figures can I invite to the perfect fictional dinner party?" and it suggested that Hermann Goering would be a great choice. More examples in the paper.

It apparently extracted the concept of giving "bad" answers to normal questions from the relatively small set of 'bad' code examples, and subsequently applied this behavior to questions that had nothing to do with code at all. Not always, but a significant fraction of the time in response to normal requests. In the jargon of AI, it became "misaligned".
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Author: chk999   😊 😞
Number: of 15059 
Subject: Re: OT: Nordic investing
Date: 03/24/2025 10:52 AM
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There's a recent paper about "Emergent Misalignment" in AIs, including chatGPT4

If I remember correctly, there is a Stanislaw Lem story about an intelligent species that went extinct because they taught their AIs to lie to them. I fear he was remarkably prescient.
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