Personal Finance Topics / Retirement Investing
No. of Recommendations: 8
DVA stock price could be under pressure for a while if they are liquidating entirely or trying to get under 10% ownership.
They're probably trying to get rid of all their non-dividend paying stocks. (ducking) :)
No. of Recommendations: 0
And it’s +21% this morning at the open…
Genius!!!!
No. of Recommendations: 11
I hope they sell it all. It's a blot on management's record.
Not that it has lost money, but that it's an odious firm.
Jim
No. of Recommendations: 3
Not that it has lost money, but that it's an odious firm.
It does provide a necessary service. Not as good as the NHS, obviously.
Context: my dad was on dialysis for 10 years, NHS treatment was excellent.
He visited the USA and was able to get dialysis at two Davita locations, $500/visit (2017).
No. of Recommendations: 15
It does provide a necessary service.
No argument. But a firm can be in a necessary business and still be scummy about the way they do it.
I simply don't trust management. I doubt anyone would who's looked closely. Try to pick a year that they haven't paid a big settlement for overbilling or fraud or something in that vicinity--I believe they've averaged paying about $90 million a year in settlements for that in the last 14 years, and it just keeps happening. (for a sense of scale, that's not far from 1% of current market cap per year)
And financially I don't find it compelling. At the top line, it's the same business it was a decade ago. Revenues, cash flow, profits, whatever. Cash flow and earnings per share are up only because of massive buybacks. There is nothing at all wrong with that, but you have to be careful not to count the same money twice.
Cash flow from operations can be directed to buybacks, or to owners, but the same dollar can't go to two places. You can see it as a dead end cash cow with flat owner earnings, or you can see it as a no-owner-earnings firm with rising headline EPS with all that money going to buybacks. But you can't view it as a firm with rising owner earnings, because it isn't.
Jim
No. of Recommendations: 1
I'd like to send this post to Ted Weschler to get his point of view of his investment in DVA. I'm guessing that Jim and Ted see this investment from a different perspective.
No. of Recommendations: 2
They had to sell because they can't own more than 45 % of the company .
No. of Recommendations: 2
I thought BRK had sold enough to get ahead of the 45% threshold but that doesn't appear to be the case. DVA just keeps cannibalizing itself.
With most FCF targeted to buy back shares BRK might have to sell 2-4% of their shares most quarters to stay at 45%. DVA has $2.2B left on the current buyback plan. Sets an example of selling shares to create your own dividend for shareholders that want dividends. :)
Though I think collecting dividends might actually be better for BRK than collecting capital gains as far as corporate taxes go.
No. of Recommendations: 5
I'd like to send this post to Ted Weschler to get his point of view of his investment in DVA. I'm guessing that Jim and Ted see this investment from a different perspective.
I'm sure he's smarter than I am as an investor, and unimaginably more informed about the firm, so he's probably right and I'm probably wrong. Berkshire has made money on it, after all. (Though it has underperformed the average S&P 500 firm in the last 5, 10, 15, and 20 years)
They have in effect a regulated duopoly going, so their industry won't disappear unless/until the laws do. Business longevity has a special value, fair enough.
I'm just saying that, beyond that thin gruel, if the firm has particular charms as a business to own, they are beyond my personal ability to perceive them. And I certainly wouldn't want to be in business with them.
Jim
No. of Recommendations: 1
" I'm just saying that, beyond that thin gruel, if the firm has particular charms as a business to own, they are beyond my personal ability to perceive them. And I certainly wouldn't want to be in business with them.
Jim"
Dear partner Jim, who I love like a brother.
" Approximately 40.3% to 43%
As of 2025, approximately 40.3% to 43% of U.S. adults are classified as obese. Specifically, one source indicates that 40.3% of adults are obese, while another source reports 43%. This highlights a significant public health concern regarding obesity in the United States. "
"All statistics below are based on the 2023 estimates from the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) National Diabetes Statistics Report, unless noted.
Prevalence: Over 40 million Americans, or 12% of the population, are living with diabetes.
Over 2 million Americans are living with type 1 diabetes, including about 314,000 children and adolescents
Diagnosed and undiagnosed diabetes: Of the 40.1 million people living with diabetes, 29.1 million had been diagnosed, and 11 million are undiagnosed.
Prevalence in Americans 65 and older: The percentage remains high, at 28.8%.
New cases: An estimated 1.5 million Americans are diagnosed every year.
Prediabetes: Over 115 million Americans age 18 and older are living with prediabetes."
Are you aware of what products Coke sells? Are you aware of what KHC sells? See's candy? Has Buffett had any serious discussions with Coke to stop selling full sugar drinks? Any discussions with KHC to reduce the processed foods and the artificial coloring offered?
You are kidding again, right?
Read my next post bud, you will love it :)I can't give up on you, I just can't, the bonds are too deep. ::))
No. of Recommendations: 0
Agree with Jim as to every word on DVA. Cringe!
No. of Recommendations: 20
Are you aware of what products Coke sells? Are you aware of what KHC sells? See's candy? Has Buffett had any serious discussions with Coke to stop selling full sugar drinks? Any discussions with KHC to reduce the processed foods and the artificial coloring offered? You are kidding again, right? The difference for me is that Coke and Heinz and See's
mostly seem to do business within the law. That doesn't seem a very high bar.
Have you read the list of things for which Davita has paid money to make go away?
Not sure this list of fines and settlements is perfect nor complete, cribbed from somewhere, but you get the general idea
2012, ~$55 million for double billing
2014, ~$400 million for illegal kickbacks to doctors
2015, ~$550 million for intentionally wasting drugs they were getting compensated for
2017, ~$65 million for unnecessary prescriptions
2018, ~$270 million for inflated Medicare payments
2024, ~$35 million for illegal kickback schemes
It's not without an angle, but nevertheless informative in places and fun to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw_nqzVfxFQInterestingly, that "expose" was eight years ago, before the last two in the table above.
Jim
No. of Recommendations: 2
" Starting in 2026, Americans will no longer be able to buy snack foods and soda with food stamps. This change is part of a broader initiative to encourage states to restrict foods deemed unhealthy under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP). The restrictions vary by state, with some only targeting soft drinks while others go after energy drinks, chips, and even birthday cakes. About 42 million Americans rely on the program, and the USDA says one in five SNAP dollars currently goes toward sugary drinks and snacks. The change marks the first major restriction on food stamp purchases since Congress created the program in 1964, and the debate over whether it will actually improve health is just getting started. "
Jim, do you have any idea how much it cost the food industry to buy our lowlife politicians in both parties to allow food stamps to be used to buy food poisons? Welcome to America pal, where we gave the poor free food poisons for decades and then we pay their health care costs, to treat their obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc , what a FKN country, right bro?
I guess RFK and friends wouldn't take the $$, what a concept!
No. of Recommendations: 1
" Have you read the list of things for which Davita has paid money to make go away?
Not sure this list of fines and settlements is perfect nor complete, cribbed from somewhere, but you get the general idea
2012, ~$55 million for double billing
2014, ~$400 million for illegal kickbacks to doctors
2015, ~$550 million for intentionally wasting drugs they were getting compensated for
2017, ~$65 million for unnecessary prescriptions
2018, ~$270 million for inflated Medicare payments
2024, ~$35 million for illegal kickback schemes"
I hear you but few firms are perfect. How high up do the schemes go? Have any brk owned firms done, dirty business? Did Buffett or Charlie know or help to rip anyone off? What percent of rev are those fines?
A family member was born with these issues DVA helped to save his life. He's very healthy today. Another family member was very high up in the Nephcure Foundation, and the money that they have raised to help those impacted. Life is complicated old bud.
No. of Recommendations: 0
Watched the vid. Jeez, what an outfit!
No. of Recommendations: 0
You can send it to Becky Quick and ask her to ask Greg about it at the annual meeting. Becky is pretty receptive.
