Post New

Well King Schumer finally caved. I guess all those unions like AFGE etc. finally did exactly what I said they would do: Petition their government for redress of grievances. The pain point was reached.

This is a HUGE loss for Schumer and the Dems no matter how they try to spin it going forward.

King Schumer was blackmailing the Republic for $1.5 TRILLION and now meekly asserts that a mere one year extension of expanded covid era ACA credits will be sufficient to break the impasse. That's estimated to be worth $23 billion.

So, Schumer is now willing to settle for 1.5333% of his original "demand."


Wotta azzclown this guy is.

He held the entire country hostage over a rounding error.

HUGE win for Trump and the Congressional Republicans--and of course for the Nation!!!

King Schumer was blackmailing the Republic for $1.5 TRILLION and now meekly asserts that a mere one year extension of expanded covid era ACA credits will be sufficient to break the impasse.

Do you have a link for Schumer stating that he wanted $1.5 trillion?

albaby1,

You're too smart to start playing this game, right?

Google is your friend, use it.

You're too smart to start playing this game, right?

Google is your friend, use it.

I did. I couldn't find anything connected to Schumer, or anyone else in the Senate. I found lots of attack press from Republican leadership talking about some $1.5 trillion proposal, but I couldn't find the proposal itself - or even who it came from. They also all seemed to be from before the shutdown actually happened.

It wouldn't shock me if there was a wish list bill from early days that some Democrats had thrown out there as an example of what they think a good budget would look like - but I can't find any evidence that there was any serious proposal that Democratic leadership was putting on the table that were their actual offer for ending the shutdown.

Usually my google-fu is pretty good, but it has eluded me.

Since you've mentioned it numerous times, and even started a new thread about it, I assumed you would have it handy. Could you just provide a quick link to the proposal that you think Schumer was initially insisting on, but from which he has now caved?

OK find anyplace where King Schumer or anyone else in the Democratic Party made any proposal at all, before today.

This is the problem with smarty pants progressives. You pretend "what, who me, I'm an expert on a message board about everything political, and I will verbosely and repeatedly explain how I know the answers to everything--yet now I'm pretending total ignorance of my party's position!"

Just google the following search term:


"Did Schumer demand $1.5 Trillion for the CR?"

and let us know what you come up with.

You're a smart guy, you can do it. I know you can!

OK find anyplace where King Schumer or anyone else in the Democratic Party made any proposal at all, before today.

You're the one who said he caved. You're the one who started a new thread where you calculated a percentage - to four decimal places - detailing precisely the degree to which he caved. That said that this was Schumer's demand and provided an exact cost.

I merely assumed that this meant that you actually knew what Schumer demanded. That he had made a prior concrete offer that he had "caved" from. After all, it's your thread title.

The Democratic party has made it clear from the beginning that their primary objective was to force the GOP to revised the CR to include an extension of the ACA subsidies. They have been communicating that eight ways from Sunday in their public statements and (presumably) to Congressional leadership as their starting position for negotiations. Schumer's proposal today is for (checks notes) an extension of the ACA subsidies...which is what they've been identifying as their primary ask the entire time.

So I don't think it's too much to ask of you if you are asserting that this means he "caved" to provide some basis for that claim.

OK albaby1 I forgot this is the internet and you're one of those folks who can never admit to being wrong about anything.

You win.

Schumer WON!!!!


Feel better now? Lol

Just google the following search term:


"Did Schumer demand $1.5 Trillion for the CR?"

and let us know what you come up with.

You're a smart guy, you can do it. I know you can!

Okay, I just did.

It returned no results linking to any actual demand made by Schumer. Actually, not even any results showing an actual demand made by Democrats. Just a lot of links to statements by Republicans claiming that Democrats demanded this, but no results to any actual Democratic proposal.

Which, I suspect, you already knew. If that search term had actually returned a link to a demand by Schumer for $1.5 Trillion in exchange for the CR, then you would have just posted that link rather than telling me to Google it.

But again, perhaps my Google is rusty. I entered the search term you provided, and it didn't take me to any prior proposal by Schumer. Perhaps you might be able to find it? Again, I sort of assumed you had it ready to go.

OK albaby1 I forgot this is the internet and you're one of those folks who can never admit to being wrong about anything.

You win.

Schumer WON!!!!


Feel better now? Lol

No. Perhaps you take a different approach, but I don't participate in online discussions for the lolz or to "win" - but to actually have conversations with people.

I genuinely want to know what the proposal was that Republicans seem to think was a $1.5 trillion counteroffer from Schumer, or if not from Schumer than from enough Democrats (or Democratic leadership) to be the actual Democratic Party position.

I like talking to Republicans and conservatives on these boards because it helps me understand what ideas and beliefs are prevalent among Republicans and conservatives - and honestly I had no idea that this was a thing that conservatives actually believed was the Democratic position until you mentioned it. I presume that at a minimum there was some Democrat that put out a "wish list" type of budget that they think would be better for the country than what the GOP passed - every single Congressbeing, Republican or Democrat, is out there messaging the shutdown to some degree, and I don't doubt that some of them decided to put out what they think the budget should be. But I had no idea that conservatives might be trying to convince themselves that this was what the Democrats were insisting on.

So I genuinely would love to find what it was that sparked all the GOP leaders to do this messaging. I actually would much rather if you could point me to it, rather than be snarky about Schumer or me "winning."

So, albaby1, now you're claiming King Schumer and the Dems were demanding NOTHING AT ALL until TODAY?

So after over a month of a completely unnecessary shutdown, they have now for the very first time, presented their first and only bargaining position--a mere 1 year extension of covid era enhanced ACA premium subsidies/credits totalling $38 billion?

IN all this time since the shutdown began, and in all the time leading up to it, the Democratic Party asserted no position at all in response to the Republicans' demand for a clean C.R.?

Really?

Why didn't Schumer publicly announce prior to the shutdown that all he was looking for was a one year extension of the ACA subidies at an estimated cost of $38 billion?

When you play this "dumb," it's just stupid.

You "genuinely want to know" what the Democrats were proposing, that the Republicans found unacceptable?

So you've gone all this time with many many posts attempting to analyze the situation--yet only NOW you claim

you had NO IDEA what the Democrats actually wanted?

Until TODAY???

If you think the Democrats never put forth a counterproposal to the clean C.R., can you explain why they didn't just pass it initially and avoid the shutdown entirely?

So, albaby1, now you're claiming King Schumer and the Dems were demanding NOTHING AT ALL until TODAY?

Nope. The Democrats have been very clear that they would not vote for a CR unless the expiration of the ACA subsidies was address. They've expressed that repeatedly and continuously in their public statements, and I have no doubt that they've similarly expressed it in private to GOP leadership as well.

The GOP leadership response has been, "we will not negotiate." At least publicly - perhaps they have had some "feelers" out there through individual Members or Senators.

But the Democrats have been overwhelmingly consistent in repeating, over and over again, that they would not vote for the CR unless the ACA subsidies were extended. They were never asking for anything as big as $1.5 trillion....which might make you wonder why the GOP didn't sit down with them and come up with a number.

I guess you weren't able to find the $1.5 trillion proposal after all?

I asked you to find me King Schumer's actual proposal. After you claimed you could not find anything from Schumer constituting a proposal before today.

So, taste your own medicine: Find Schumer's actual proposal in response to the clean C.R. proposed by the Republicans, and link to it.

No making stuff up when you've been caught with your pants down,buddy.

So you've gone all this time with many many posts attempting to analyze the situation--yet only NOW you claim

you had NO IDEA what the Democrats actually wanted?

No. I know what they wanted. They wanted an extension of ACA subsidies.

What I don't know is why you believe there was a $1.5 trillion demand out there. To my knowledge, neither Schumer nor leadership has ever said - but somehow, you've been sufficiently convinced that they wanted a $1.5 trillion bill to be passed. Enough that you think Schumer is an "azzhat" for proposing something that isn't anywhere near that large. I'd like to know why you think that the $1.5 trillion proposal is what Democrats were actually trying to hold out for. It's not what Schumer, or anyone from leadership, has ever proposed to my knowledge - which makes sense, because $1.5 trillion is close to 2x what even the Inflation Reduction Act cost, and that barely got past the Democrats. So it beggars belief that Democratic leadership would ever be holding out for something that big.

But you believed it, enough to confidently proclaim that Schumer had "caved" for merely settling for what I (and most Democrats, I think) understood was the Democratic position - an ACA subsidy extension. So I would like to know what proposal led you to believe that the number was really $1.5 trillion, rather than the much more reasonable proposal that (again) Democrats have been asking for this whole time.

You're also lying about the Republicans' response. The Republicans clearly said they were more than willing to negotiate AFTER the clean C.R. had been passed, because they did not want America to be blackmailed.

WHERE is Schumer's actual PROPOSAL that ALL he wanted was a one year extension to ACA covid area subsidies?

You keep evading.

You keep making stuff up.

You disputed that Schumer's non-publicized proposal as interpreted by the Republicans being worth $1.5 trillion was not worthy of consideration because (I guess you believe) the Republicans made it all up and fabricated it.

You challenged me to find a proposal, any proposal, from Schumer. Surprise, I couldn't because he never made it public.

Now you're claiming you "know" what was in Schumer's non-public proposal to the Republicans.

How?

Are you a mind reader?

What's YOUR source?

You have none.

I asked you to find me King Schumer's actual proposal. After you claimed you could not find anything from Schumer constituting a proposal before today.

So, taste your own medicine: Find Schumer's actual proposal in response to the clean C.R. proposed by the Republicans, and link to it.

I never said he made one, prior to today. I didn't start a brand new thread criticizing Schumer for abandoning his prior proposal. I didn't make a post calculating to four decimal places the exact degree to which he backed down from a prior proposal.

You're the one who made the claim. I'm asking you to provide the basis for the claim that you made.

As for what Democrats wanted, it's been no secret - at all - that they were demanding the ACA subsidies to be extended. That's what they've been saying this whole time. If you want a link, here's one of the first ones on Fox News (I tried to find a source you might accept as credible) from a few weeks ago, specifically describing how the Democrats were making Obamacare subsidies the demand for passing the CR:

So Democrats have pleaded with Republicans to subsidize Obamacare to defray looming price increases. Obamacare subsidies and the government shutdown aren’t directly connected. But Democrats believed they could link the two. And then, after people snored off to sleep about the government shutdown on Oct. 1, they were rudely awakened by a notice in the mail that their healthcare premiums were about to jump.

Say what you will about the tactics, but it was a shrewd strategy by Democrats to seize on an issue important to their base. Moreover, it gave the party the opportunity to show voters that it’s "fighting" against President Donald Trump. That’s something which didn’t happen in the March funding round. In fact, the Democrats’ lack of fighting is what set a match to an internecine fight among Democrats about how to combat the president. The public and the government are absorbing the flames of that internal conflagration now, but Democrats may have found a way to salve those wounds.

"Fighting for healthcare is our defining issue," said House Minority Whip Katherine Clark, D-Mass., in an exclusive sit-down interview with Fox News. "Shutdowns are terrible and there will be families that are going to suffer. We take that responsibility very seriously. But it is one of the few leverage times we have."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/reporters-noteboo...

I mean, it's right there in the headline: "Government shutdown stalls as Democrats demand Obamacare subsidy extension."

You're the one who seems to think it was something else. So again, I ask - what's the proposal that you think the Democrats really wanted, that led you to the $1.5 trillion figure?

This is the problem with smarty pants progressives. You pretend "what, who me, I'm an expert on a message board about everything political, and I will verbosely and repeatedly explain how I know the answers to everything--yet now I'm pretending total ignorance of my party's position!"

Is that sorta like your ignorance concerning the details of that 1.5 trillion dollar list you were talking about?

Asking for a friend.

Also, Schumer has characterized today's proposal as a "new" proposal.

What was the old proposal?

You're seeming to claim that this was "always" all that the Dems wanted to reopen the government.

Do you remember when Schumer came out and gave a press conference explaining how the Republicans' presentation of what he wanted as being a $1.5 Trillion add on to a clean C.R., was absolutely false, and then Schumer explaining why it was false?

I don't remember that press conference.

In fact, I don't remember any Democrat throughout the shutdown as contesting that $1.5 Trillion number.

On the contrary, the Dems including King Schumer were PROUD of trying to blackmail America for an extra $1.5 Trillion.

The Republicans clearly said they were more than willing to negotiate AFTER the clean C.R. had been passed, because they did not want America to be blackmailed.

Consider my statement amended - the Republicans made it clear that they were not willing to negotiate....until after the Democrats had given them the votes they needed.

But surely you understand why the Democrats countered and said, "no, we're going to insist on negotiating the health care provisions we believe are necessary before we give you the votes that you would presumably be negotiating for."

"I never said he [Schumer] made a counterproposal before today."


So, now you're claiming the Dems had no counterproposal at all.

But you're also saying they DID have a counterproposal involving ACA subsidies being extended.

You're all twisted up in circles of rationalization.

No, that can't be what happened, albaby1.

You yourself said there was no Democratic Counterproposal at all, prior to today.

Remember?

You disputed that Schumer's non-publicized proposal as interpreted by the Republicans being worth $1.5 trillion was not worthy of consideration because (I guess you believe) the Republicans made it all up and fabricated it.

I am simply asking you where the $1.5 trillion proposal came from. You seemed quite confident it existed, so I asked you where it came from.

I never said that Schumer had publicly offered a discrete, dollar-figure/time-specific proposal. I've been pretty consistent in pointing out that the Democratic demand has always been for an extension of the ACA subsidies. You're the one who seems to think that they were asking for something else - for $1.5 trillion.

So....do you know where that $1.5 trillion figure came from?

Dear albaby-

You’ve made your point….. in spades.

Anything more is just grinding his face with the bottom of your shoe.

Actually….. belay that!!!!

You’re simply lifting your shoe and he’s grinding his own face on it.

Though fun to watch, I fear you’re not leaving much of his face for the hungry leopards

No, that can't be what happened, albaby1.

You yourself said there was no Democratic Counterproposal at all, prior to today.

Nope. The Democrats have been very clear in saying that their objective in fighting over the CR was to get an extension of the ACA subsidies. They've wanted GOP leadership to sit down with them to negotiate the details.

They have never come out with a dollar-specific proposal, as you have suggested. That's why I'm puzzled where you got this from. Presumably you believed that there was a $1.5 trillion demand. Where did that come from?

No albaby1.


How do you know that the Democrats have been pretty consistent in wanting one year's worth of ACA subsidy exentsions? And not closer to the $1.5 Trillion? We needn't talk about that since you refuse to believe it because it comes from Republicans.

Where is the actual proposal--before today (which you said doesn't exist)?

You're saying Schumer shut down the government without ever making any proposal at all???

That's insane.

No one but a ProGlib living in delulu land would believe it.

Keep going in circles buddy.

Find me where Schumer previously proposed anything. Not what you want to believe or claim he proposed.

Where is the proposal, any proposal, from SChumer or any Democrat, PRIOR TO TODAY?

If the position of the Democrats is that they never even presented any counterproposal at all, that means they have just been jerking the entire country around for the duration of the shutdown.

Stupid stupid stupid.

But the Democrats have been overwhelmingly consistent in repeating, over and over again, that they would not vote for the CR unless the ACA subsidies were extended. They were never asking for anything as big as $1.5 trillion....which might make you wonder why the GOP didn't sit down with them and come up with a number.

Among other things. Just because the media repeats, "The democrats are standing firm on ACA subsidies" doesn't mean in the slightest that was their ONLY demand.

They basically wanted to roll back much of the OBBB and all its core Medicaid provisions. Hence, the accusation of wanting health care for illegal aliens (something they used to support openly).

First, let's go directly to what the CBO said about the OBBB:
https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2025-06/Arrington...

CBO estimates that enacting the Medicaid provisions in title IV would
increase the number of people without health insurance by 7.8 million in 2034
relative to baseline projections under current law.1 Of that number:
• About 4.8 million would be able-bodied adults between the ages of
19 and 64 who have no dependents and who do not meet the
community engagement requirement in section 44141 for participating
in work-related activities at least 80 hours a month.
• About 1.4 million would be people who do not meet citizenship and
immigration status requirements for Medicaid enrollment but who
would be covered under current law in programs funded by the states.
• About 2.2 million would become uninsured because of other provisions
in H.R. 1, including provisions increasing the frequency of verification
of eligibility to enroll in Medicaid or those that would lead states to
change their Medicaid enrollment requirements in response to federal
policy changes.
• CBO estimates that the interactions among the policies would, on net,
reduce the number of people without health insurance by 600,000 in
2034 relative to the sum of the estimated effects of the individual
policies because some people would become uninsured under more
than one policy.

The democrats submitted this legislation into the Senate in September:

https://www.congress.gov/119/bills/s2882/BILLS-119...

Subtitle B of title VII of the Act titled ‘‘An Act to
provide for reconciliation pursuant to title II of H. Con.
Res. 14’’ (Public Law 119–21) is repealed and any law
or regulation referred to in such subtitle shall be applied
as if such subtitle and the amendments made by such sub
title had not been enacted.

Pubic Law 119-21 is of course the One Big Beautiful Bill.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-119publ21...

And that part is..


Subtitle B—Health
CHAPTER 1—MEDICAID
SUBCHAPTER A—REDUCING FRAUD AND IMPROVING ENROLLMENT PROCESSES
Sec. 71101. Moratorium on implementation of rule relating to eligibility and enroll
ment in Medicare Savings Programs.
Sec. 71102. Moratorium on implementation of rule relating to eligibility and enroll
ment for Medicaid, CHIP, and the Basic Health Program.
Sec. 71103. Reducing duplicate enrollment under the Medicaid and CHIP pro
grams.
Sec. 71104. Ensuring deceased individuals do not remain enrolled.
Sec. 71105. Ensuring deceased providers do not remain enrolled.
Sec. 71106. Payment reduction related to certain erroneous excess payments under
Medicaid.
Sec. 71107. Eligibility redeterminations.
Sec. 71108. Revising home equity limit for determining eligibility for long-term care
services under the Medicaid program.
Sec. 71109. Alien Medicaid eligibility.
Sec. 71110. Expansion FMAP for emergency Medicaid.
SUBCHAPTER B—PREVENTING WASTEFUL SPENDING
Sec. 71111. Moratorium on implementation of rule relating to staffing standards for
long-term care facilities under the Medicare and Medicaid programs.
Sec. 71112. Reducing State Medicaid costs.
Sec. 71113. Federal payments to prohibited entities.
SUBCHAPTER C—STOPPING ABUSIVE FINANCING PRACTICES
Sec. 71114. Sunsetting increased FMAP incentive.
139 STAT. 77
139 STAT. 78
PUBLIC LAW 119–21—JULY 4, 2025
Sec. 71115. Provider taxes.
Sec. 71116. State directed payments.
Sec. 71117. Requirements regarding waiver of uniform tax requirement for Med
icaid provider tax.
Sec. 71118. Requiring budget neutrality for Medicaid demonstration projects under
section 1115.
SUBCHAPTER D—INCREASING PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY
Sec. 71119. Requirement for States to establish Medicaid community engagement
requirements for certain individuals.
Sec. 71120. Modifying cost sharing requirements for certain expansion individuals
under the Medicaid program.
SUBCHAPTER E—EXPANDING ACCESS TO CARE
Sec. 71121. Making certain adjustments to coverage of home or community-based
services under Medicaid.
CHAPTER 2—MEDICARE
SUBCHAPTER A—STRENGTHENING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
Sec. 71201. Limiting Medicare coverage of certain individuals.
SUBCHAPTER B—IMPROVING SERVICES FOR SENIORS
Sec. 71202. Temporary payment increase under the medicare physician fee sched
ule to account for exceptional circumstances.
Sec. 71203. Expanding and clarifying the exclusion for orphan drugs under the
Drug Price Negotiation Program.
CHAPTER 3—HEALTH TAX
SUBCHAPTER A—IMPROVING ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA
Sec. 71301. Permitting premium tax credit only for certain individuals.
Sec. 71302. Disallowing premium tax credit during periods of medicaid ineligibility
due to alien status.
SUBCHAPTER B—PREVENTING WASTE, FRAUD, AND ABUSE
Sec. 71303. Requiring verification of eligibility for premium tax credit.
Sec. 71304. Disallowing premium tax credit in case of certain coverage enrolled in
during special enrollment period.
Sec. 71305. Eliminating limitation on recapture of advance payment of premium
tax credit.
SUBCHAPTER C—ENHANCING CHOICE FOR PATIENTS
Sec. 71306. Permanent extension of safe harbor for absence of deductible for tele
health services.
Sec. 71307. Allowance of bronze and catastrophic plans in connection with health
savings accounts.
Sec. 71308. Treatment of direct primary care service arrangements.
CHAPTER 4—PROTECTING RURAL HOSPITALS AND PROVIDERS
Sec. 71401. Rural Health Transformation Program.

...all of those things.

Where is the Democratic counterproposal prior to today, albaby1?

Link? Source? Who presented it? To whom was it presented?

How do you know this?

You don't. You're completely fabricating that which you wish to be true.

Marco, your puerile postings are garbage.

The media you consume and regurgitate without question makes you look like a fool.

OK albaby1 I forgot this is the internet and you're one of those folks who can never admit to being wrong about anything.

You win.

Schumer WON!!!!


Feel better now? Lol

Also, let's forever put to bed the fantasy that noncitizens were never getting enrolled in Medicaid. There's your smoking gun that there were 1.4 million people who were not eligible.

Dope1, nice response to albably1, but futile.

Now having come to realize that Schumer is in fact caving, and the entire shutdown was just an exercise in jerking off the entire country for his own perceived political "leverage," it is necessary for the ProgLibs to rewrite history.

No, the Dems never wanted $1.5 Trillion of additional funding. No, they never wanted to reverse the One Big Beautiful Bill.

Why, all they wanted was a discussion about extending ACA subsidies for a single year!

And they know this....how?

Because wherever they get their talking points from has given them the cliff notes.

Now the spin will be "Dems only wanted a one year extension costing $38 billiong, not $1.5 Trillion."

Yet...no evidence of this at all. Albaby et al just pulling it out of there you know where.

No there was no prior dem proposal. Yes, there was a prior dem proposal. Where is the proposal? Trust me, I know what it was.

This is a HUGE loss for Schumer and the Democrats and I really hope Thune and Johnson stick to their guns and accept nothing less than a totally clean C.R. They need to tell Schumer to get bent. Pass the clean C.R., enough with the blackmail, then let's talk turkey.

Crush these mothers.

You’ve made your point….. in spades.

Anything more is just grinding his face with the bottom of your shoe.

Ironically, I'm genuinely not trying to grind marco's face at all.

He's not wrong that there's tons of GOP messaging about a $1.5 trillion demand. That's what the Republicans have been trying to tell their base, so that their base will believe the Democrats are being unreasonable.

If any of them stopped to actually think about it, they would quickly realize it was absurd. Even the Inflation Reduction Act could get enough votes from Democrats to hit that topline figure - they were only able to get to $891 billion. This is nearly double that figure. So anyone looking at this should quickly realize that there's no possible way that this could actually be the formal bargaining position of the Democrats.

But since all the GOP folks were messaging that $1.5 trillion figure, it must have come from somewhere. There must have been someone out there - perhaps even a single Democratic congresscritter that didn't think about their messaging - that put out a "wish list" type budget that the GOP must have seized on in order to start spreading this message.

However, I can't find it. Tons of instances where GOP folks are claiming that this proposal was out there, but nothing at all pointing to whatever it was that set them all off. And now I really want to know what it was. I want to know what started this, since apparently this is a thing that conservatives actually believe about the shutdown. Which I didn't know before - I didn't know that conservatives were actually under the impression that Democrats were demanding more from the shutdown than the entire IRA. That's why I like having these conversations - you genuinely learn something from them.

I hoping that marco wasn't repeating all of this out of ignorance but might actually know where the proposal came from. I agree that it's now clear that he has no idea where this figure came from or why he believed it was true - and he seems to think that internet discussions are about "winning," so he can't just come out and say it.

Ges,

It's not my fault you bet on the wrong horse, the horse came up lame, and now you're being a sore loser.

You're angry because Schumer caved. You're angry because you don't buy into albaby1's transparent rewriting of history to try to present this as a "win" for the Democrats.

Not my fault, bro.

Be angry at Schumer, or yourself.

The Republicans clearly said they were more than willing to negotiate AFTER the clean C.R. had been passed, because they did not want America to be blackmailed.

Many of us know what a "JC" intends when he says "give me everything I want now, and I'll take care of you later": the "JC" has no intention of ever honoring his commitment. He will only shaft you again, later.

It's academic anyway. The GOP is rejecting Schumer's proposal out of hand.

Democratic leader offers deal to reopen government but Republicans sneer

“I find Senator Schumer’s demands ridiculous and equivalent to political hostage taking to continue bad policy, Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, said in a post on X.

“We should not be made to continue flooding health insurance companies with taxpayer dollars under Obamacare as the price to open up the government,” Graham said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/07/government-shutdow...

I remember when Graham had a functioning brain. He pushed back on the Bush regime's "military tribunals" at Gitmo, where it was impossible for the defense council to mount a defense, because he was not allowed to see the government's evidence against the accused.

But Schumer blinked first. He can either raise the white flag now, or three months from now. He's lost. Implicit in Graham's comments is that Schumer was working for the insurance companies, not the people.

Next year, the GOP, having killed ACA subsidies, will target something else to be defunded, to help cover "JC" tax cuts.

Steve....HBTT

How do you know that the Democrats have been pretty consistent in wanting one year's worth of ACA subsidy exentsions?

I didn't say they were consistent in wanting one year's worth of ACA subsidy extensions. I said they were consistent in wanting the ACA subsidy extensions, and wanted to negotiate with the GOP on the details of it.

That's why I was (and remain) curious about the $1.5 trillion figure you were convinced was true - and wanted to know why you believe it. It's pretty clear now that you have no idea where it came from, and probably yourself don't know why you thought it was what the Democrats really wanted.

Which is fine; this conversation was very interesting for me, because I didn't realize that this was something that conservatives believed about Democrats until this discussion. So I've learned something. Perhaps I'll be able to find the underlying thing that led the GOP to start messaging this to their voters, but I'm now pretty confident that you don't know what it was, so I'll stop hectoring you about it.

albaby1,

When did the Democrats ever present any counterproposal to the clean C.R. before today?

How do you know the terms? What's your source?

You've been asked repeatedly.

You refuse to answer, you claim omnisicience. You just "know."

Uh, not good enough.


Conclusion: Democrats have never made any counterproposal at all to the clean C.R. until today. They have just been abusing the entire nation admittedly for political leverage and they failed.

The democrats submitted this legislation into the Senate in September:

Which doesn't surprise me at all. The Democrats opposed the OBBB. They think the government should reverse many of those policy provisions. Individual Democrats - perhaps even large groups of them - will introduce bills trying to undo it. They did it before the shutdown, and they'll probably do it again after the shutdown. In fact, many Congressbeings - of both parties - have bills they introduce every single Congress to undo something they dislike.

That doesn't mean, though, that the Democrats have ever made passage of that bill - or anything in it other than the ACA subsidies - a condition of passing the CR.

While I have no doubt that the Democrats (like the GOP) have a wish list of all the things they'd like changed, I don't think that bill is Chuck Schumer's list of negotiating points on the CR.

Republicans are rejecting Schumer's proposal (according to albaby1, the very FIRST actual proposal the Dems have even made in all of this time).

Good.

Stand on principle. Schumer and the Dems have none.


They admitted the only reason they shut down the government was for political leverage.

As in finance, leverage can work both ways, good and bad.


Schumer will whine and gripe but has to cave all the way and release his caucus to sign on to the clean C.R. and it has to happen before November 21. This was just a last ditch effort to try to salvage something out of this self-created fiasco.

Schumer's career is over either way. He isn't running for re-election after this disaster.

Nice gaslighting...

That doesn't mean, though, that the Democrats have ever made passage of that bill - or anything in it other than the ACA subsidies - a condition of passing the CR.

While I have no doubt that the Democrats (like the GOP) have a wish list of all the things they'd like changed, I don't think that bill is Chuck Schumer's list of negotiating points on the CR.

This was literally their counterproposal.

119TH CONGRESS
1ST SESSION
S. 2882
Making continuing appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30,
2026, and for other purposes.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
SEPTEMBER 18 (legislative day, SEPTEMBER 16), 2025
Mrs. MURRAY introduced the following bill; which was read the first time
SEPTEMBER 19 (legislative day, SEPTEMBER 16), 2025
Read the second time and ordered placed on the calendar
A BILL
Making continuing appropriations for the fiscal year ending
September 30, 2026, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa
tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Continuing Appropria
tions and Extensions and Other Matters Act, 2026’’.

"Mrs. Murray" is of course my own senator from the state of Washington, Patty Murray. She is the ranking democrat on the Appropriations Committee.

albaby1,

Schumer's proposal TODAY was for one year's ACA subsidies extension.

How do you know what was, or wasn't, in the Dem's proposal before today?

Source?

Dope1,

How dare you present FACTS and EVIDENCE.

It's very REPUBLICAN of you!

Disgusting!

This was literally their counterproposal.

Yeah - of two Senators. Although I'm sure there was probably a companion house bill as well. That's what they wanted, and I'm sure that lots of other Democratic Senators would love to have all the health care provisions of the OBBB stripped out - but that's not the same thing as them insisting that those are the requirements for them to pass the CR.

But maybe that's the source of the $1.5 trillion figure? The timing doesn't quite work out, I think - but do you think that's where they got it from? The Murray "wish list" bill?

Yeah - of two Senators. Although I'm sure there was probably a companion house bill as well. That's what they wanted, and I'm sure that lots of other Democratic Senators would love to have all the health care provisions of the OBBB stripped out - but that's not the same thing as them insisting that those are the requirements for them to pass the CR.


That bill was literally their counterproposal. Had way more than 'just extend the ACA subsidies' in it.

And Murray is Minority Chair of the Appropriations Committee, which makes this piece of legislation their documented stance on the matter. It's not just some rando bill.

"When did the Democrats ever present any counterproposal to the clean C.R. before today?" - marco

Nobody can be this stupid..... Even Mike is smarter than this and that says something.

You seriously did not know what the Democrats wanted as part of the CR? It really isn't that hard to figure out.

No wonder America is sinking, were got 40% of the country that is too ignorant to know basic facts.

Do better, your ignorance is destroying the country.

Schumer's career is over either way. He isn't running for re-election after this disaster.

And his failure to protect health insurance company profits, by protecting the subsidy, probably blew his chance at a cush seat on their Board. So now, the insurance companies will put one of the Trump spawn on their board, to protect themselves from Trump's search for scapegoats.

from the net sifter:

Health insurance companies and related PACs have donated approximately $2,998,119 to Chuck Schumer's campaigns from 1990 to 2024, according to data from OpenSecrets. This figure includes contributions from Political Action Committees (PACs), individual employees, and their families.

Total donations: Around $2,998,119 from 1990 to 2024, making him a top recipient of money from the health insurance industry.

Source of funds: The donations are not from the organizations themselves but from their PACs, employees, and owners, and those individuals' immediate families.

Additional context: OpenSecrets also reported that between 1990 and 2018, health insurance and HMOs contributed $481,665 to Schumer's campaigns

Steve...the wrong hill, for corrupt reasons.

Also, let's forever put to bed the fantasy that noncitizens were never getting enrolled in Medicaid.

What you are referencing actually states they aren't eligible for medicaid, but get about 1.5 million via state programs. Illegals giving childbirth, remember.

Dope1,

It's so very clear. Schumer never had a counteproposal to the Republican's clean C.R. until TODAY. Neither did any other Democrat.

But,by mind reading, albaby1 "knows" that the Democrats wanted something something something ACA subsidies something. With no specifics of course.

He knows this....how?

Because he's getting cliff notes/talking points from the DNC or related entities. The narrative now shifts from "We will save america from Trump and the OBBB and get you $1.5 Trillion in additional goodies, and we will shut down the government until we get every last penny! We rock!" to: "Hey we just only ever wanted a one year extension of covid era ACA subsidies. Of course, we never told anyone that until TODAY. But everyone should have known that anyway. Even though we never disputed the $1.5 Trillion number per the Republicans calculations--and guess what, we are still not disputing that even today. But ignore that. We are the reasonable ones, the Republicans are responsible for the shutdown, even though we never had a counterproposal before today!!!"

Makes sense, no?

No.

Where is the proposal?

I'm not a mind reader, neither are you.

What proposal are you talking about?

Source it please.

So I've learned something. Perhaps I'll be able to find the underlying thing that led the GOP to start messaging this to their voters, but I'm now pretty confident that you don't know what it was, so I'll stop hectoring you about it.

Good place to end things.

LOL ProGlibs are totally ashamed and defeated.

It was inevitable.

King Schumer and the other Dems expressly stated that their intention was to get political "leverage" by being obstructionist and shutting down the government. They even admitted that they knew their tactics were going to make people "suffer" but oh well...

But they had no end game. They walked out on a limb and sawed it off behind themselves.

King Schumer never intended to negotiate in good faith, and he didn't. We have libs on this board claiming that the Republicans misrepresented the Dems negotiating position. And then fabricating from whole cloth an alternate reality negotiating position that never existed until TODAY, when Schumer announced it, trying to salvage something out of the fiasco he deliberately created.

Rewriting history doesn't change what actually happened.

And what happened is this...the people who were actually suffering due to King Schumer's shutdown began to realize they were the pawns and the Dems didn't care about them at all. They exercised their right to petition their government, and they did so. And they did so loudly enough, and in enough numbers, that King Schumer has now lost control of his caucus.

And this is a fair outcome and one that was to be expected from the beginning. Because being obstructionist for no other reason than to be obstructionist is not going to get the bank accounts filled or the SNAP payments made. It's not going to fly the airplanes.

Democrats are delusional but when reality finally hits, it hits hard and it hits fast.

Dear albaby-

You’ve made your point….. in spades....

You’re simply lifting your shoe and he’s grinding his own face on it.

This discussion between Albaby and Marco reminds me of some lyrics that comedian Steve Martin wrote, to a little ditty he called "Grandmother's Song."

Lines pertaining to Albaby
Be courteous, kind and forgiving
Be gentle and peaceful each day
Be warm and human and grateful
And have a good thing to say

Be thoughtful and trustful and childlike
Be witty and happy and wise
Be honest and love all your neighbors

Lines pertaining to Marco
Be pompous, obese, and eat cactus
Be dull, and boring, and omnipresent
Criticize things you don't know about
Be oblong and have your knees removed

Be tasteless, rude, and offensive
Live in a swamp and be three dimensional
Put a live chicken in your underwear
Get all excited and go to a yawning festival

“But Schumer blinked first. He can either raise the white flag now, or three months from now. He's lost”

Schumer is a joke. He thinks he’s still playing a rich boy frat house game. The Democratic Party will rise again when it can purge the sclerotic Clintonites and their lust for billionaires donations.

<<Also, let's forever put to bed the fantasy that noncitizens were never getting enrolled in Medicaid.>>

I've grayed out the willfully ignorant posters here, so I see their comments only when they're quoted by another poster.

Re this quote, I merely point out that "noncitizens" and "illegal immigrants" are two different things. "Noncitizens" includes legal residents who are not (yet) citizens. They constitute a small but nonzero number of persons who lawfully receive Medicaid.

Undocumented noncitizens have NEVER been eligible for Medicaid, although if any of their children were born in the U.S.(and are thus U.S. citizens), those children can be covered by Medicaid. The percentage of Medicaid recipients that fall into this category is (very) low single digits.

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