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Halls of Shrewd'm / US Policy
No. of Recommendations: 1
Gift article:
The Last Thing Democrats Need Is More Policy Plans
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/08/opinion/democra...To counter Donald Trump’s appeal and save American democracy, Biden-era Democrats perceived their core political challenge to be reversing the defection of lower-income and lower-education voters from the party.
To address this challenge, Democrats pursued an ambitious economic policy agenda framed around moving beyond neoliberalism. Saving democracy from MAGA, the logic went, would require the forging of a post-neoliberal political economy newly open to bold welfare-state expansion, ambitious industrial policy and aggressive antitrust enforcement.
The stimulus spending of the American Rescue Plan, industrial policy initiatives of the CHIPS and Science Act and the Inflation Reduction Act, and administrative and regulatory activity across the executive branch added up to an agenda both notably left-leaning and decisively more focused on economic than cultural issues.
All that activity did essentially nothing to slow the defection of working-class voters from the party. In 2024, the party’s losses among lower-income and less-educated voters reached into nonwhite constituencies long considered sturdy Democratic loyalists and helped put Mr. Trump back in the White House.Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost in 2024? Anyone?
No. of Recommendations: 14
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost in 2024? Anyone?
Because half the country is unable to reason properly and is driven instead by sheer emotion?
No. of Recommendations: 20
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost in 2024? Anyone?
For those wondering how an elderly sociopath who is also a "great friend" of Jeffrey Epstein, a proven rapist, serial liar and a convicted felon,
could have prevailed in the 2024 presidential election:
21% of adults in the US are illiterate.
This means that approximately one in five American adults cannot read or write at a basic level.
Additionally, 54% of adults have a literacy level below the sixth-grade level, indicating that over half of the adult population struggles with more complex reading tasks.
The United States ranks 36th in global literacy rankings.
Trump lost college educated women 61% to 37%.
Trump lost non college educated women 53% to 45%.
Trump lost college educated men 49% to 48%.
Trump won non college educated men 61% to 37%. (MAGA owns the ‘Dudes Who Didn't Finish the Reading’ Demographic!)
"Smart people don't like me!" ~Trump
But seriously, at some point shouldn't conservatives have to do something that makes the world better if they want to keep winning elections?
No. of Recommendations: 5
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost in 2024? Anyone?
Because half the country is unable to reason properly and is driven instead by sheer emotion?
I don't think it's a winning strategy to keep telling people they are stupid and their concerns don't count.
No. of Recommendations: 4
I don't think it's a winning strategy to keep telling people they are stupid and their concerns don't count.
Hey, I only suggested the reason we lost. But the strategy has to keep that in mind, however unsaid it must remain going forward. Trump's strategy was to lie endlessly. Ours should be different.
No. of Recommendations: 1
noah smith is a rare journalist that considered it a personal failure that he was unable to sway enough americans against trump vs harris (or anyone else).
when voters stated affordability was\is the biggest concern, are they still stupid or just liars?
cause we are happy to tell them whatever.
No. of Recommendations: 5
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost in 2024?
Besides
-Rampant inflation
-Open borders
-Disastrous foreign policy
-Lying to the public about Biden’s mental fitness
-Choosing a terrible candidate
Besides these there are probably a dozen more reasons.
No. of Recommendations: 21
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost in 2024? Anyone?
1. The opponent had the wrong skin color.
2. The opponent had a vagina.
3. Donald Trump promised and lied more.
4. Half the country are idiots and believed him.
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but Trump voters you can fool every single day forever, and he’s still a child rapist.
No. of Recommendations: 4
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost in 2024?
Besides
-Rampant inflation - that was a world-wide phenomenon, and under control by election time, but folks remember.
-Open borders - also was under control by election time, but folks remember, and it wasn't clear they wouldn't go back to "open borders" in 2025, at least according to my literate, educated, reluctant Trump voting friends.
-Disastrous foreign policy - not sure, war in Ukraine?
-Lying to the public about Biden’s mental fitness - absolutely.
-Choosing a terrible candidate - there should have been some kind of primary. I voted for her but was pretty sure she had no chance. 107 days isn't enough. Biden & co really, really screwed us all over. I'm still bitter about it.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Half the country are idiots and believed him.
Thousands of educated, literate people voted for Trump. They are not all idiots.
They weighed up the pros and cons, and came on the side of, well, the con.
Makes my puzzler hurt....
No. of Recommendations: 6
They weighed up the pros and cons, and came on the side of, well, the con.
Makes my puzzler hurt....It shouldn't. Politics is a team sport. An awful lot of people decide whether they're on Team Democrat or Team Republican and that's who they vote for.
Plus, there's always this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs(
very NSFW)
No. of Recommendations: 6
Thousands of educated, literate people voted for Trump. They are not all idiots.
Maybe because they are sociopaths, who know they will profit from Trump's policies, and don't give a whit about the damage done to others by those same policies?
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 23
They weighed up the pros and cons, and came on the side of, well, the con. Makes my puzzler hurt...People make mistakes, people believe lies, people get scammed...
What I find tragic is where we are
now...
"In 14 months, Trump has turned America into a country people around the world hate, fear, feel sorry for, laugh at, are sickened by,
no longer believe in, and want absolutely nothing to do with. I suppose when you put an utterly stupid, cruel, corrupt, lawless, dishonest madman in the White House,
that'll happen." ~Joe Walsh, Former Republican Congressman
https://bsky.app/profile/walshfreedom.bsky.social/...
No. of Recommendations: 4
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost in 2024? Anyone?
Yes. Biden was unfavorable at the polls, and the open border plus sleepy Joe stuck. Biden was late on changing his policy at the border, and the disastrous debate led to Kamala, because she was primaried. We knew we wouldn't win, but we could save the down ballot.
Kamala didn't do too badly. Somehow people thought times under Trump were good economically, and Dem times were not good.
No. of Recommendations: 15
What I find tragic is where we are now...
"In 14 months, Trump has turned America into a country people around the world hate, fear, feel sorry for, laugh at, are sickened by, no longer believe in, and want absolutely nothing to do with. I suppose when you put an utterly stupid, cruel, corrupt, lawless, dishonest madman in the White House, that'll happen." ~Joe Walsh, Former Republican CongressmanAnd yet, as of today, 39.5% of USians still approve of the cruel and lawless madman.
Seems that for the most part, Trump is the symptom, not the root cause.
https://www.natesilver.net/p/trump-approval-rating...
No. of Recommendations: 2
They weighed up the pros and cons, and came on the side of, well, the con.
Makes my puzzler hurt....
It shouldn't. Politics is a team sport. An awful lot of people decide whether they're on Team Democrat or Team Republican and that's who they vote for.
Sure, but then they clearly aren't weighing up the pros and cons.
No. of Recommendations: 2
People make mistakes, people believe lies, people get scammed...
Yes they do. And that's a far better interpretation than they are just stupid and/or illiterate.
What I find tragic is where we are now...
Absolutely. 100%
No. of Recommendations: 4
Then, there are statistical anomalies in the voting records of the 6 battle ground states suggesting votes subtracted from Harris, i.e. 100,000 votes in Arizona with complete down ballot choices but no vote for president, and 30,000 votes for president with no down ballot selections, added to Trump.
Just enough to put Trump on top in every battle ground state.
I don't believe our elections are secure.
fd
No. of Recommendations: 5
A summary of the thread:
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost [the working-class vote] in 2024?
Reasons with # recs:
Not Democrat policy related:
The opponent had the wrong skin color./The opponent had a vagina./Donald Trump promised and lied more./Half the country are idiots and believed him. (21)
54% of adults have a literacy level below the sixth-grade level, indicating that over half of the adult population struggles with more complex reading tasks (20)
People make mistakes, people believe lies, people get scammed... (18)
half the country is unable to reason properly and is driven instead by sheer emotion (14)
Politics is a team sport. An awful lot of people decide whether they're on Team Democrat or Team Republican and that's who they vote for. (5)
Maybe because they are sociopaths, who know they will profit from Trump's policies, and don't give a whit about the damage done to others by those same policies? (4)
Democrat policy related:
Rampant inflation/-Open borders/-Disastrous foreign policy/-Lying to the public about Biden’s mental fitness/-Choosing a terrible candidate (5)
Biden was unfavorable at the polls, and the open border plus sleepy Joe stuck. Biden was late on changing his policy at the border, and the disastrous debate led to Kamala (2)
when voters stated affordability was\is the biggest concern, are they still stupid or just liars? (1)
No. of Recommendations: 2
Then, there are statistical anomalies in the voting records of the 6 battle ground states suggesting votes subtracted from Harris, i.e. 100,000 votes in Arizona with complete down ballot choices but no vote for president, and 30,000 votes for president with no down ballot selections, added to Trump.
On the one hand this sounds like the stuff of conspiracy theories.
On the other hand, I believe this corrupt administration is capable of cheating in every way they possibly can.
What is the source for the stats you quoted?
No. of Recommendations: 8
Can anyone think of any other reason why Democrats lost [the working-class vote] in 2024?I think that's a different question than asking whether the Democrats need more policy plans. The election loss in 2024 -
especially the Presidential race - is overdetermined. Tons of possible causes that are large enough to explain the loss.
The question in the article in the OP is, I think, a little narrower: why didn't the Democrats' actual policies
help more? That's not unique to those authors - there seems to be a growing consensus that Bidenomics just wasn't
popular, a recognition that extends even to groups that were big fans of the substance:
https://prospect.org/2026/04/07/apr-2026-magazine-...The OP article basically says that you can't win elections without strong parties, and that the bones of the party
aren't their policy plans. They're structural, institutional, coalition-building
organizations - they're a
thing, not an idea. You can't rebuild parties by having better ideas than "the other side," because it's not the ideas that get people to support a party. A party is a
team, a group of aligned people...not just, or even primarily, a platform.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Sure, but then they clearly aren't weighing up the pros and cons.
The problem is simple. There are virtually ZERO "cause-and-effect" consequences for making bad choices.
If they and/or their kids got DRAFTED and SENT TO FIGHT IN THE MIDDLE EAST, you can bet there would be MASSIVE reactions within MAGA to get rid of Spankee NOW.
No. of Recommendations: 2
It shouldn't. Politics is a team sport. An awful lot of people decide whether they're on Team Democrat or Team Republican and that's who they vote for.
Sure, but then they clearly aren't weighing up the pros and cons.
There's two step and three step. Try and assess the concerns being touted and pick your own main concerns. Then step back and take a look at the country - do we need to go right or left? Is the country headed in the right direction? The country's been headed right for 30-50 years, making it easier for me to vote since my last step is always the country needs to go left. If you're talking pronouns, etc., you're wasting your time - it's inconsequential, and it's an example of how we got here. Try and look at it abstractly and don't vote with your emotions.
The cartels were advertising on social media overseas to get people to pay $35k in China to get them to the US border. Not good. Leaving Afghanistan was a front page debacle, and partly a set up by Trump. Trump was able to control perceptions, now he's losing that ability and we need to capitalize on that. Iran is a disaster so far; I still hope for something good to come out of it, even though it will help Trump.
No. of Recommendations: 5
Thousands of educated, literate people voted for Trump. They are not all idiots.
What are they if not idiots? Indifferent? Malicious and some combo of Amoral/ Greedy/ Racist/ Bigoted?
Everybody had the opportunity to know what he was and is.
The Maya Angelou phrase has become cliche, but " 'When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time,' ."
He showed us. He showed us in his scummy behavior, in books, on TV, on radio, on Truth Social.
No. of Recommendations: 2
An awful lot of people decide whether they're on Team Democrat or Team Republican and that's who they vote for.
That doesn't sound anywhere close to intelligent.
No. of Recommendations: 4
That doesn't sound anywhere close to intelligent.
It's actually very intelligent. Probably moreso than the reverse for most people.
If you have views about policy that mostly line up with the Democrats, or if you're a member of the coalition that the Democrats tend to favor, or you have some general reason for wanting the Democrats to be the party that exercises power instead of the Republicans...you're almost always better off voting for a Democrat than any other candidate. Especially for President. And the converse is true for the Republicans.
If you are generally aligned with one of the two parties, it is so much worse for your preferred outcomes for the opposite party to gain control of a branch (or all) of government that the individual positions, characteristics, or policy attributes of any candidate are almost never going to outweigh that. It's so much more significant that the opposite party not get control of the agenda that it's going to outweigh almost anything else.
No. of Recommendations: 5
Thousands of educated, literate people voted for Trump. They are not all idiots.
Sano: What are they if not idiots? Indifferent? Malicious and some combo of Amoral/ Greedy/ Racist/ Bigoted?
I thought very_stable_genius' post was the best:
People make mistakes, people believe lies, people get scammed...
And of course, Albaby's observation that a good chunk simply vote for "their side" no matter what.
My one reluctant Trump voting friend later said he kinda regretted his vote, but he couldn't vote for what he thought was "open borders" and "ridiculously woke ideology".
I tried to educate him beforehand. That's hard when we spend one or two bike rides a week together, and the rest of the time he's Fox News, All-in Podcast, work colleagues, etc. You can lead a horse to water and all that. He's a great guy, though. Generous, kind, intelligent.
No. of Recommendations: 2
"Thousands of educated, literate people voted for Trump. They are not all idiots."
this is a ludicrous argument for anything.
you know who got many MILLIONS of votes? putin.
prefer fairer elections ? hitler.
some of both ? bolsonaro , maduro.
why do incumbent autocrats like trump, erdogan, orban require any kind of rationalization when history will eventually agree people were pretty much idiots? must be fear or silent complicity.
No. of Recommendations: 2
My one reluctant Trump voting friend later said he kinda regretted his vote, but he couldn't vote for what he thought was "open borders" and "ridiculously woke ideology".
I tried to educate him beforehand. That's hard when we spend one or two bike rides a week together, and the rest of the time he's Fox News, All-in Podcast, work colleagues, etc. You can lead a horse to water and all that. He's a great guy, though. Generous, kind, intelligent.
And this thread sums up why a significant chunk of the electorate is isolating itself socially and intellectually.
No. of Recommendations: 4
And this thread sums up why a significant chunk of the electorate is isolating itself socially and intellectually.
Yep.
Happens every time I read one of your posts.
No. of Recommendations: 5
He's a great guy, though. Generous, kind, intelligent.
And this thread sums up why a significant chunk of the electorate is isolating itself socially and intellectually.
Not so. I do a trivia night that is all Republicans but me. I never broach politics as the old adage is 'Never talk politics or religion.' One broached politics one time and I quickly changed the subject. Get em to chuckle. :) I'm not one to rub someone's nose in the fact that Trump is doing badly. It;s a social night out, I like all of them. I had one lady tell me she's Christian and doesn't believe in trans. easy to not talk about trans.
No. of Recommendations: 4
It's actually very intelligent.
Isn't that more 'pragmatic' than 'intelligent'?
IMHO, the most intelligent choice is pulling the levers for enviros.
The pragmatic choice is pulling the 'anybody but MAGA' levers.
I have a very 'libertarian' friend, ex-navy, vietnam blue water and brown water, who's writing logical anti-trump anti-iran war posts, yet believes it's as important as ever to be principled and vote for the Libertarian candidates.
Smart guy... I'd trust him with my life at sea... but it pains me that he cannot make the leap that voting against a guy like Trump is important, if not the most principled or intelligent choice.
No. of Recommendations: 15
IMHO, the most intelligent choice is pulling the levers for enviros.
Why? If voting for an enviro means helping a Republican wins the race (either because the Republican is the enviro or because you're voting for a Green candidate or whatever), you've made environmental protection less likely to happen. Even if you're a single-issue voter on the environment, it's not mere "pragmatism" to vote in a way that makes environmental protection more likely - it's the more intelligent choice. The worst Democrat on environmental issues is going to be better for the environment than the best Republican because of the team effect in politics.
No. of Recommendations: 1
IMHO, the most intelligent choice is pulling the levers for enviros.
Why? If voting for an enviro means helping a Republican wins the race (either because the Republican is the enviro or because you're voting for a Green candidate or whatever), you've made environmental protection less likely to happen.
My Libertarian friend's position is that voting L is the principled and most intelligent choice if only a majority will do the same.
My hypothetical is the same... "IMHO, the most intelligent national choice is pulling the levers for enviros, provided that everybody does the same to prevent the ongoing environmental disaster unfolding before us.
I do appreciate your point that voting D is intelligent in the short term, ie. pragmatic, to stop the fascist/racist trend infecting the US.
No. of Recommendations: 4
My hypothetical is the same... "IMHO, the most intelligent national choice is pulling the levers for enviros, provided that everybody does the same to prevent the ongoing environmental disaster unfolding before us.
Except you know that the proviso isn't true. It's not true that everybody else will do the same. So it's not always intelligent to always pull the lever for enviros. Short term or long term. That's not pragmatism. If the circumstances don't exist where it would be the intelligent choice to pull the lever for an enviro, then it's not intelligent to pull the lever for the enviro in those circumstances. It's not merely the pragmatic choice - it's the intelligent choice.
No. of Recommendations: 0
It's not merely the pragmatic choice - it's the intelligent choice.
The pragmatic choice is not the intelligent choice if it's just the lesser of two evils. It's just pragmatic; a Hobson's choice.
Do I vote for the R guy who supports drilling for oil in my bay, or the D guy who wants to build the worlds largest BESS next to my neighborhood. Both want to gut the bay to build big commercial energy support wharf for 300' OSVs for rigs or turbines. Either way it's gonna destroy a fairly pristine bay; one of the last of its kind on the west coast.
The enviro candidate doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell, but would be the best chance to save the bay from the likes of Vistra and/or Sable Offshore Corp.
No. of Recommendations: 11
The enviro candidate doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell, but would be the best chance to save the bay from the likes of Vistra and/or Sable Offshore Corp.
Which makes them not the intelligent choice. It's not intelligent to do something that cannot achieve your most important priority. If they don't stand a snowball's chance in hell, then they are (by definition) not the best chance to save the bay. Literally the worst chance to save the bay.
The D guy might want to build the world's largest BESS next to your neighborhood. But politics is a team sport, and electing democrats has a team effect. So if the Democratic team has control of the levers of government, then it becomes marginally less likely that a BESS will get built next to your neighborhood irrespective of whether the guy you vote for or not actually wants that outcome. Because the democrats as a group are far more likely to support measures that permit development with adverse environmental outcomes than republicans are as a group.
A recent example is Joe Manchin. His personal political preferences are almost the antithesis of what enviros support on climate change - but because he was a D, and thus gave the Democrats the majority, the Democrats were able to pass probably the largest single climate change measure that has ever existed. Had the GOP held the majority, nothing would have passed to help climate change.
So when you write:
The pragmatic choice is not the intelligent choice if it's just the lesser of two evils. It's just pragmatic; a Hobson's choice.
That's just wrong. Being pragmatic is intelligent. It's unintelligent to choose the greater of two evils. And when comparing members of a political party, describing a member of the party that generally aligns with your positions as an "evil" is usually wrong no matter what their personal positions are.
No. of Recommendations: 2
Being pragmatic is intelligent. It's unintelligent to choose the greater of two evils.
And yet we end up with the Felon.
Unless the Reps swing back to what they were when Goldwater was around, I won't even consider voting Rep for any office. I'm not happy with Dems on many things, but -to me- the Reps are the greater evil. By far. I don't think I agree with them on anything at this point, and that's saying something given that I spent my first twenty voting years as a registered Republican (where I wasn't happy with them on many things, either).
No. of Recommendations: 4
The pragmatic choice is …
… the party that is most likely to keep democracy intact in the future so that you CAN be an enviro and not be tossed in jail because you support protecting the environment.
