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Here's another take on immunity from an actual lawyer. This view isn't quite as sanguine as albaby. Granted, he's a youtuber and making money from his videos, so he has some incentive to get lots of views. And he does lean towards the liberal side. But the arguments he makes will sound familiar to those here, with a better look at the case that us non-lawyers can typically put together.

I'm trying not to panic, but the more I hear, the more concerned I get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXQ43yyJvgs

Yes, the video is 25 minutes long, but he works at a pretty fast pace and it's filled with information.

--Peter

I highly recommend this video.

As I and others have attempted to explain but apparently not very well or very convincingly, this video makes the following points (here in no particular order...).

While the 40 page ruling devotes CONSIDERABLE prose to outlining scenarios in which this new invented immunity applies, ZERO prose is devoted to any example of "outer perimiter acts" where immunity would NOT apply. That seems very odd and very slanted towards EXPANDING Presidential power while requiring any alternate interpretation that might CONSTRAIN Presidential power to be left to litigating in a future case, incurring more delay at some future critical point in time rather than ensuring everyone (current / future Presidents, Congress, courts, citizens) fully understands the new rules of the game as the court envisions them.

The ruling makes a point of defining three separate buckets of Presidential actions

1) core responsibilities unique to the Presidential role
2) outer perimiter Presidential responsibilties and actions
3) actions outside the responsibility of the Presidency

to maintain an illusion there are areas of conduct where it is still the case that no immunity is granted. However, OUTER PERIMITER actions are defined as anything not "manifestly or palpably beyond his/her authority." But the ruling also states "In dividing offical from unofficial acts, courts may not inquire into the President's motives." So even the HINT that an action taken by a President that ON THE SURFACE as described by the President fits within his official duties was POSSIBLY NOT directed to occur in a manner compatible with the President's legal authority CANNOT BE QUESTIONED OR INVESTIGATED. Again, the words say "MAY NOT INQUIRE..." They don't say inquire all you want and use such evidence in OTHER criminal cases against OTHERS not protected by this immunity. They prohibit investigation into the conduct based on suspicion that an act claimed to be "official" was in fact an illegal use of power because merely QUESTIONING the President's motives would prevent a President from exercising his unique powers vigorously.

Parenthetically, one other thing I found odd about the Court ruling is the number of citations in the opinion about the need for a President to feel at liberty to act with vigor unencumbered by the fear of prosecution for criminal acts which all seem to cite prior Trump relate cases. No other President in our history got to the point of filing formal motions in ANY court that argued the principal that having to ponder the legality of their acts while President would be a hindrance to their power. It's another example of how this court is making up entirely new Constitutional law and legislating from the bench while citing motivations from litigation filed by the current defendant rather than ANY other prior case law established since 1789.


WTH

I had watched part of it, and finished watching it on Pthe's recommendation. I copied the chart

...............................................Type of Conduct
......................................................|
......................./------------------------------|------------------------------------\
................Official conduct......................vs.............................Unofficial Conduct
.......................|.................................................................................|
.......................|.................................................................................|
...............Conclusive & Preclusive................................................Yes prosecute
.............Core Constitutional Authority?.........................................Example:
.......................|...........................................................*Possible false elector scheme
......../---------------------------------\.............................................*Possible ellipse speech
......YES......................................NO
.......|.............................................|
.......|.............................................|
....ABSOLUTE......................PRESUMPTIVE
....IMMUNITY......................IMMUNITY
.......|..............................................|
...No prosecution...............Pose any danger of
...No use as evidence...........intrusion on the authority
...Example:.........................and functions of the
...POTUS pressure on............Executive Branch?
...DOJ Investigations......................|
...and prosecutions........................|
................................/----------------------------\
..............................YES.................................NO
...............................|.........................,,,,,..........|
.........................No prosecution...................Yes prosecution
.........................No use as evidence...............Yes use as evidence
....................................................................Example:
....................................................................Possible pressure on
....................................................................former VP Mike Pence

The DOJ and Military were given as examples of core power with absolute immunity.

I'll never attempt a chart again. :)

I will listen to Legal Eagle again tomorrow, but if this is close to reality we are in a bad position. And there are many Legal pros that seem to think this could be the case. I'm not sure how to resolve this quickly and that may be the crux of the problem. Resolving this may stretch out into the distant future.

I'll never attempt a chart again. :) - Lapsody

----------------------

It was a respectable effort. I could sort of follow it.

But I watch Fox News, so my standards are pretty low. :)

Resolving this may stretch out into the distant future.

You're assuming there will be a future in which this can be resolved. If the Republic falls, it's over.

Very difficult unless you know the tricks.

First: compose in another app, preferably a word processor so you can make the additions/subtractions/spacing right. (Use a mono space font like Courier.)

Select the whole thing, and copy it.

Bring it here, use either the <TT> command or the <PRE> command. The first is just monospace font, the second is monospace font and you must insert your own carriage returns. Generally the former works more easily.

Then your spacing (mono font) will render properly and make the graph easy to read.

You're assuming there will be a future in which this can be resolved. If the Republic falls, it's over.

I don't think thew fall will be fast. I think it will happen gradually.

I don't think thew fall will be fast.

Think again. The Heritage Foundation is highly organized and ready to go. They will hit the ground running and make a huge amount of progress towards destroying the Republic. The fall has already been happening slowly. It's going to pick up speed very quickly if it's allowed to on November 5.

--Peter

Nope. Peter is right. It will likely be very fast. They have been planning this for a while, and have the playbook already laid-out. The only thing stopping them is a Democrat victory in November. The right is nothing if not organized. Especially the lunatic fringe that seems to control the party.

You just have to LOL. And shake your head.

At so much. At how paranoid some of you are. At how little you read. At how little you think of your fellow citizens. All of it.

If Trump wins we’re still going to have a country. In years past I would have expended energy trying to calm you down, but not this year.

Some of you are rapidly approaching the scene in a lot of thriller movies where the detectives burst into the suspect’s house and walk into a room wallpapered with photographs and cutout news articles with pieces of string connecting them all together. That’s what gibberish like this

counts of business fraud, fined hundreds of millions of dollars for defamation, was impeached twice, staged a coup, called American war dead suckers and losers, quotes Hitler, praises dictators and said he'll be one if elected, wants to leave NATO, said he'll abandon Ukraine to Russia, had his charity shut down for spending charitable contributions on himself, bankrupted casinos, hotels, Trump Shuttle, Trump University, Trump Vodka, Trump Mortgage, Trump Steaks, and Trump Water, who lies with every breath, believes wind turbines cause cancer, thinks electric-powered airp

…looks like to a normal human being. Thank goodness they track fertilizer purchases now; this guy reads like he’s ready to rent a U-Haul.

Bring it here, use either the < TT > command or the < PRE > command.

Where are these commands listed? I'll never remember them. :)

I had to preview to adjust spacing and eliminate lines that didn't look good.

Think again. The Heritage Foundation is highly organized and ready to go.

I have thought about it. I foresee a series of reactions. Trump is elected President and Project 2025 does as much damage as it can, and we react to it by electing Gavin Newsom or the like. So we repair what we can and then another younger person following in the steps of Trump pops up and we go through it again, while another Project with refined weapons works on the Gov. We react to that. In each stage we are outdone because no one on the other side comes to their senses, and they are much more b@stardly than we are willing to be. We have this continuous long haul rebellion with poison pills, sabotage, criminality, and the long lived USSC stays right on making decisions against us and handing power to the people who want to dismantle our Gov. Now there are other scenarios, but this is the most likely one to me right now. We're witnessing the beginning of our descent - even as we're still the biggest capitalist engine in the world.

Nope. Peter is right. It will likely be very fast. They have been planning this for a while, and have the playbook already laid-out. The only thing stopping them is a Democrat victory in November. The right is nothing if not organized. Especially the lunatic fringe that seems to control the party.

Not to me. What you call "very fast" is just the beginning, and it never stops, there's just Indian Summers before it begins again.

I have thought about it. I foresee a series of reactions. Trump is elected President and Project 2025 does as much damage as it can, and we react to it by electing Gavin Newsom or the like.

Right there is the fault in your thinking. If Project 2025 does it's damage, you won't be able to elect Newsom or the like. Project 2025 will tilt the tables so heavily toward Republicans that electing a Democrat for president will not be possible, nor will getting a Democrat majority in the House or Senate.

--Peter

Right there is the fault in your thinking. If Project 2025 does it's damage, you won't be able to elect Newsom or the like.

Oh yes I will. And since we *ARE* going to go through it, we shall see. Cross your fingers and buckle up, it looks like we are headed downhill.

Some of you are rapidly approaching the scene in a lot of thriller movies where the detectives burst into the suspect’s house and walk into a room wallpapered with photographs and cutout news articles with pieces of string connecting them all together. That’s what gibberish like this

The reason for the hyperventilating that we’ve seen this movie before. We’ve seen police called in to move peaceful demonstrators away so the President could get a photo op holding a Bible for no particular reason at that time.

We’ve seen a border policy at its most degrading, separating infants and children from their parents, often without so much as a name tag for future rapprochement. Who countenances this?

We watched as thousands swarmed the Houses of Congress, violently vandalized the exterior, smashed windows, attacked police, and caused the death of almost a half-dozen people while the President did nothing, even as he was implored by staff and family to put an end to it with a simple tweet.

We saw his praise “good people on both sides” after demonstrators ran down and killed someone protesting actual Nazi’s in an American city.

There’s more, lots more, but if you are not concerned about the rule of law (whoda’thunk, those Law & Order Republicans!) and the specific outlines of the Heritage group and others for permanently crippling democracy, then you are not paying attention. And yet, some of the rhetoric is over the top, but the reaction is entirely understandable, in my view.

The reason for the hyperventilating that we’ve seen this movie before.

I posted about P2025 before the current hyperventilating crew, but am a bit more cautious. Remember, Hitler did his piece by piece and step by step, and he has told us he was "too nice" the first time, so expect nasty and defiant. I shudder at the though of even half of what P2025 has lined up. We should be afraid. Our problem is than nothing seems to phase MAGAts so we can't expect any lessening of his favorability in the polls. I am thinking we will be finding out what will push the MAGAts too far, but I have no idea what it is. Not a nice place to be.

They have been planning this for a while, and have the playbook already laid-out. The only thing stopping them is .... - 1pg

--------------------

You mean like Biden's Day One flurry of EO's undoing Trump's policies that were working. Then within 100 days, sixty total EO's.

Right there is the fault in your thinking. If Project 2025 does it's damage, you won't be able to elect Newsom or the like. Project 2025 will tilt the tables so heavily toward Republicans that electing a Democrat for president will not be possible, nor will getting a Democrat majority in the House or Senate.

--Peter

----------------

LOL, so in your view, we find ourselves in opposing tribes, each vowing to save the republic, with the outcome decided by which side can be first to establish a dominant majority that will end the possibility for the other side to ever regain power. That's some high-minded democratic principles right there!

LOL, so in your view, we find ourselves in opposing tribes, each vowing to save the republic, with the outcome decided by which side can be first to establish a dominant majority that will end the possibility for the other side to ever regain power.

No. My understanding of Project 2025 is that it is designed to keep conservatives in power and make it difficult to be a Democrat and get elected. Democrats have no such long term plans against Republicans. For them, it's just stopping the insanity of an out of control former president convicted of multiple felonies and awaiting trial in many more. Most Democrats would welcome a sane conservative party that wasn't bowing down in obeisance to Trump, but instead presenting policies and proposals consistent with the constitution and freedom for all to control their bodies as they please, love whom they please, worship - or not - as they please, and exercise these freedoms regardless of their skin color or national origin.

--Peter

You mean like Biden's Day One flurry of EO's undoing Trump's policies that were working. Then within 100 days, sixty total EO's.

Not sure which ones you mean. Are you referring to the more than two dozen that he issued after he lost the election, and the dozen that came just days before a new President was sworn in? Or other ones?

And given that these were in effect for less than a month, how do you know “they were working?”

Thanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_or...

Trump is elected President and Project 2025 does as much damage as it can, and we react to it by electing Gavin Newsom or the like.

If Trump and his cronies get hold of the Whitehouse I think they will do everything they can to make sure 'we' never get a chance to correct anything.

This is very different from some normal conservative Republican getting elected POTUS. Trump and the Federalist Society make this a real game changer.

If Trump and his cronies get hold of the Whitehouse I think they will do everything they can to make sure 'we' never get a chance to correct anything.

This is very different from some normal conservative Republican getting elected POTUS. Trump and the Federalist Society make this a real game changer.

I don't believe they have the ability to do that, but-

1. If Biden stays, recovers from the debate and strides easily across the stage, for a stutter, we have a chance at winning - no problem, I'm not changing my donations, etc.

2. Biden stays, never recovers, and we lose, his poor performance drags us down and we lose the house and the senate. Now Trump has all the cards, every one of the them. The House, the Senate, the USSC - there is nothing in his way at all.

3. Biden steps out and throws to Harris. We have a chance at the House, the Senate, but probably not a good chance at the Presidency.

You've seen other lists. So we need to know a bit before the convention what is going down. Biden, his staff, and those supporting and working these campaign(s)need to work this out.

I don't believe they have the ability to do that, but- , lapsody

----------------------

Neither do I and I would add they don't have the intent either. Perhaps that is the root reason the MAGA supporters remain steadfast while liberals hair is on fire.

which side can be first to establish a dominant majority that will end the possibility for the other side to ever regain power.

No! The question is... can Trump's "Reich" be prevented.

The orange rapist's staff may have deleted the post, but it will never be forgotten....along with 'vermin' .... 'poisoning the blood' .... pitting black Americans against immigrants who are "taking Black jobs."

Neither do I and I would add they don't have the intent either. Perhaps that is the root reason the MAGA supporters remain steadfast while liberals hair is on fire.

Here is a something going around on P2025. It's enough for deep concern.

PROJECT 2025
PLAN FOR TRUMP'S 2ND TERM
ABORTION
• Reverse the FDA's approval of abortion
medication
• Invoke a 150 year-old defunct law called the
Comstock Act to ban the shipment of
abortion pills, enacting a de-facto national
abortion ban
• Compel states to report the "reason" for
every abortion performed within their borders
• Allow states to ban employers from providing
health benefits that cover abortion care

CLIMATE
CHANGE
• Withdraw from the U.N. Framework
Convention on climate change and the
Paris Climate Agreement
⚫ Repeal the Inflation Reduction Act,
President Biden's landmark climate law
⚫ Shred greenhouse gas regulations and gut
clean energy programs
. Replace the White House climate advisor
with someone focused on boosting the
fossil fuel Industry
• Give Trump the power to reject all climate
science research directed by the Biden
administration

LGBTQ+ RIGHTS
⚫ Make federal government establish
marriage between a man and a woman
as the "ideal, natural family structure"
• Withdraw federal anti-discrimination
protections for transgender students
*Reimplement Trump's transgender
military ban and expel transgender
service members


FOREIGN AID
⚫ Cease support for international
organizations that promote LGBTQ+
equality
⚫ Remove all references to "abortion,"
"reproductive health," and "sexual
and reproductive rights" from U.S.
Agency For International
Development's materials

FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT
• Gut the federal workforce and install
loyalists by making tens of thousands of
civil servants fireable at Trump's will
⚫ Allow Trump to deploy the military against
American citizens

TAXES
. Further lower taxes on big corporations

EDUCATION
⚫ Reverse the Biden administration's
student debt relief efforts
HEALTH CARE
• Put Medicare on the path to privatization
⚫ Repeal President Biden's Medicare drug
price negotiation program
• Threaten Medicaid coverage for
hundreds of thousands of Americans

"which side can be first to establish a dominant majority that will end the possibility for the other side to ever regain power."

That may happen but for reasons other than you think. The Republican party is a minority representative party. They can only win seats through voter suppression, gerrymandering, and other "gamesmanship", (read cheating}.

I don't care how fervently you hold your beliefs, you have to sell them to a majority and respect the constitutional system of politics we have to lead. Project 25 will make of us another Hungary, Russia, North Korea. If that is your goal, you are no patriotic American.

Here is a something going around on P2025. It's enough for deep concern.

Bring on the new Dark Ages.

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