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Serve a very valuable purpose: American colleges educate thousands of engineers and scientists every year. Many of these kids want to work and live in the USA and will eventually become citizens.

So why not encourage that? Let them work, earn and contribute to the US economy. Fast track their green cards.

There’s a simple trade to be made - Lower the number of green cards for less skilled positions.

Serve a very valuable purpose: American colleges educate thousands of engineers and scientists every year. Many of these kids want to work and live in the USA and will eventually become citizens.

So why not encourage that

That's kinda on the dumb side Dope. Ramywammy told us Americans were too dumb, so they need H1B visas, but you don't have to step right up and prove that.

Here's a list of Indian universities that qualify for H1B visas, and it isn't complete, just the Top 25:


Rank Indian University Bachelors degree holders that obtained H-1B visas in 2017
1. Anna University :850
2. Jawaharlal Nehru Technological University :747
3. Visvesvaraya Technological University 391
4. University of Madras 298
5. Pune University 225
6. Osmania University 223
7. University of Mumbai 219
8. Uttar Pradesh Technical University 156
9. Andhra University 153
10. Acharya Nagarjuna University 138
11. Bharathidasan University 127
12. Bharathiar University 123
13. Madurai Kamaraj University 113
14. The West Bengal University of Technology 110
15. Bangalore University 89
16. Cochin University of Science and Technology 73
17. Acharya Nagarjuna University 72
18. Indira Gandhi National Open University 72
19. University of Rajasthan 71
20. Punjab Technical University 64
21. Indian Institute of Technology 63
22. University of Technology Madhya Pradesh 62
23. Birla Institute of Technology and Science 61
24. Sri Venkateswara University 59
25. University of Kerala 57

Indians are top on the H1B list and it isn't because they are all being educated in the USA. S

White Liberals are against it - always have been - now they hide behind MAGA ;)

Many of these kids want to work and live in the USA and will eventually become citizens.

But if those students have sex and a kid results, no citizenship? Ship the momma and baby migrnat back to the "shithole" where they belong? No anchor babies, remember?

But what if it's a nice white blond girl that Abu knocks up? What then?

Indians are top on the H1B list and it isn't because they are all being educated in the USA

3M is running ads in the NYT profiling their best and brightest scientists and engineers. ALLLL of them appear to be Indian (or Pakistani or....).

ALLLL of them appear to be Indian (or Pakistani or....).

This isn't a quibble. They have Indian or Pakistani sounding names. Their families may have been in the US for several generations. You don't know. My family name is Scotts-Irish. I am sure there are both people with it whose families can trace their ancestry in the US back many generations as well as undocumented people with it. Let's not judge a person's citizenship based on their ethnicity. If I misunderstood the point you were making, I am sorry.

Bunch of racism in some of the comments, lol.

Oh? Is commomone feeding you his lines now that he took off in humiliation after Trump turned the dem party in to ruin?

Rammy tells us we are dumb due to our culture. I wonder which one of the cultures he is talking about? Is it that dumb Southern culture? Dumb Midwest Culture? Dumb MAGA culture? Yes, Rammy used culture.

So while you unpack Rammy and explain what he really meant -

I remember Steve Jobs being upset with Obama, because he had asked for more H1B visas and Obama didn't do it. Because Americans cost more and Indians are cheaper. I had a FB friend who knew a lot about an investment I was in. He operated apartments in NYC, and had a very large concentration of Indians on H1B visas. He catered to them and they liked having an Indian landlord and an Indian ethnic community to live in. He tole me he was suing facebook for some reason and they deleted his account and all of his FB groups. He had a separate FB gropup for each apartment complex and took care of all the complaints that way.

Now Dope is out schlepping H1Bs, carrying the water for Musk. Go figure - next thing he'll be pro-immigrant. Go figure.

This isn't a quibble. They have Indian or Pakistani sounding names. Their families may have been in the US for several generations.

I did not see names.

Let's not judge a person's citizenship based on their ethnicity. If I misunderstood the point you were making, I am sorry.

My point (which I did not make well) attempted to correlate ethnicity and the value placed on education. Some ethnicities/cultures attain iconic status, stereotypes even, in certain fields.

My assumption is based only on the 3M subject's portraits and my travels. I have seen many South Asians in the UK, Europe and Fiji too, so they could be from Bath, Laussane or Suva for all I know.

Now Dope is out schlepping H1Bs,

You can really see who know what and who does what on this board. You can also see who doesn’t.

US tech firms hire foreign kids out of US Universities all the time. They work here, they live here, they pay taxes and a boat load of them want to become citizens. The process is ridiculously unfair when you consider that all these people did everything right and year have to wait 5-7 years for a green card when a dishwasher who snuck over the border gets one in months.

Meanwhile, these people merely live their lives, put down roots in this country, build up equity here and contribute major $ to the US economy and technology base because of the work they do and the money they spend right here.

libs like to virtue signal i migration but as with most topics, they don’t think about what they’re promoting for more than 5 seconds. The people on H1-Bs are exactly the sort of future Americans you want running around here; they become absolutely solid citizens.

I think Trump needs a new program. Let’s call it the Great Trade Program. We’ll take in so many H1-Bs and in exchange we’ll ship out an equal number of ungrateful libs who don’t know enough to pour water from a boot.

H1-Bs are a dodge today. Their original purpose to bring in people we needed that could not otherwise be found domestically was fine. But now it's a way of getting a cheap educated workforce.

Which we have done to ourselves, somewhat. At my company, American NCGs were demanding upwards of $100K to start. That's just silly, in most cases. After 28 years I still didn't earn that much. The NCGs with no experience, that I would have to train, wanted more to do the same job not as well as I could. So, of course, corporations want to hire cheaper.

But there is no shortage of American engineers. I was reading articles -maybe 10 years ago?- that we had a glut of engineers, but they couldn't find jobs. I suspect that was mostly because of H1-B holders taking them.

As a side note, some engineering jobs they don't even need to H1-B someone. My company had design centers in India and Romania. We had test engineers in the Philippines (among other places). Etc. Didn't have to bring them here, just give them computers and a T1 line, and they're good to go. And cheaper than American engineers.

H1-Bs are a dodge today. Their original purpose to bring in people we needed that could not otherwise be found domestically was fine. But now it's a way of getting a cheap educated workforce.

Sigh. So much ignorance.

One more time, so it registers: many H1-Bs are issued to foreign kids who went to US universities. Some go to kids from highly respected foreign schools also. The last one I was involved with was my former intern who I hired on full-time who is from Canada and went to school there.

The company pays her the same exact wage it pays…every one else at her pay grade.

What's an NCG? (googling didn't help me)

Dope1

For the intern position, I am curious how you found the person. Was the position advertised both locally and internationally?

Aussi

For the intern position, I am curious how you found the person. Was the position advertised both locally and internationally?

The company has a program that recruits talent in the US and internationally.

"new college grad".

Not always.

I personally knew several engineers who did NOT attend US universities, but were brought over by the company to work here. In most cases, they already worked in our facilities overseas, so they knew our systems. Rather than hiring an American, they would bring Thai or Filipinos (mostly) over, predominantly for test. They were good workers, and cheaper (at least initially...I never supervised one, so don't know their pay details). If you transferred laterally, you would get a pay increase within a year to equalize you with your peers (I KNOW that, because that happened to me when I did such a transfer). A lot of them did such transfers, and would therefore get the pay-rise for the new position.

H1-Bs are a dodge today. Their original purpose to bring in people we needed that could not otherwise be found domestically was fine. But now it's a way of getting a cheap educated workforce.

Which we have done to ourselves, somewhat. At my company, American NCGs were demanding upwards of $100K to start. That's just silly, in most cases. After 28 years I still didn't earn that much. The NCGs with no experience, that I would have to train, wanted more to do the same job not as well as I could. So, of course, corporations want to hire cheaper.

But there is no shortage of American engineers. I was reading articles -maybe 10 years ago?- that we had a glut of engineers, but they couldn't find jobs. I suspect that was mostly because of H1-B holders taking them.

I wonder if the American-trained engineers are as qualified as the foreign-trained specimens?

Now, I like the American high-school and university system. My kids are getting a broad, well-rounded education. I didn't. In my last two years of UK high school, I studied Math, Physics and Chemistry. 25 hours of class and same again in homework. Nothing else. At Polytechnic I did Electrical Engineering. No languages, no English class, no pottery, painting, ice skating or wine-tasting. Math and engineering only. I've sometimes been amazed at the lack of knowledge of Electrical Engineers with master's degrees from prestigious US universities. Different expectations.

I came to the US on an H1B...I might be biased :-)

"The process is ridiculously unfair when you consider that all these people did everything right and year have to wait 5-7 years for a green card when a dishwasher who snuck over the border gets one in months.

The people on H1-Bs are exactly the sort of future Americans you want running around here; they become absolutely solid citizens."

Classist pig.

Who do you think is building all that South Bay housing, and working in all those silicon valley restaurants, and working the Salinas valley fields that feed those H1-B student, interns and engineers?

I wonder if the American-trained engineers are as qualified as the foreign-trained specimens?

I'm sure some are, and some aren't. The foreign engineers often have a better work ethic. 1poorlady -to this day- maintains that American engineers are lazy. She was a Philippines-trained engineer.

When I was in grad school, I was in a coalition of -mostly- Irish students, and a naturalized Irish principal researcher (Trevor Weekes). Talking about their education, they seemed to get a LOT more in high school than we did. They were generally more advanced in "maths" and science, and had a good amount of lit and other general studies. So by the time they hit college/university, they were ready to specialize in whatever area they were interested.

Freshmen in US universities are -from my discussions with professors- being brought up to the level they should have been coming out of high school, so they can actually start learning the university-level material.

No languages, no English class, no pottery, painting, ice skating or wine-tasting. Math and engineering only. - Adrian

---------------

Seems clear, this the guy we should want designing our bridges and missile systems. Who cares if his pottery skills are undeveloped?

We know Dope. While we're at this high of employment (due to libs) I don't mind additional H1Bs. But the law should be pro American worker, so that in higher unemployment, lower H1Bs. America first, ya know.

But the law should be pro American worker, so that in higher unemployment, lower H1Bs. America first, ya know.

Easy. Up the salary requirements, which is what Trump did last time (and what will be done again).

US tech firms hire foreign kids out of US Universities all the time. They work here, they live here, they pay taxes and a boat load of them want to become citizens. The process is ridiculously unfair when you consider that all these people did everything right and year have to wait 5-7 years for a green card when a dishwasher who snuck over the border gets one in months.

Sorry, if you do the paperwork right it takes around a year to 18 months to get a green card - assuming you're eligible. Perhaps you are thinking of the time to become a citizen? Also, why would a Canadian want to become a US Citizen? !! We know they hire from US universities, but at least 20k a year are RESERVED for foreign universities - Rammy emphasized we have a dumb culture.

Sorry, if you do the paperwork right it takes around a year to 18 months to get a green card - assuming you're eligible.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Try 5 to 7 years.

Also, why would a Canadian want to become a US Citizen? !

Because they…want to build lives here? Because it’s the greatest country in the world?

My trade program is looking like a great idea.

Easy. Up the salary requirements, which is what Trump did last time (and what will be done again).

Sorry, President Musk said NO to your proposal. Trump immediately agreed.

Sorry, President Musk said NO to your proposal.

Wrong again.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/politics/government/afte...

"Easily fixed by raising the minimum salary significantly and adding a yearly cost for maintaining the H1B, making it materially more expensive to hire from overseas than domestically. I’ve been very clear that the program is broken and needs major reform,” the owner of Tesla, X and SpaceX wrote.

Come on, guys. Let's at least *try* to keep up, shall we? Board libs are like little golf balls at a driving range...

Sorry, if you do the paperwork right it takes around a year to 18 months to get a green card - assuming you're eligible.

There may be some terminology misunderstanding. You can get a "working authorization" (I95, as I recall) within a few months. That often accompanies a "conditional permanent resident" status. The "green card" is a permanent resident status. That generally requires a I-485 (wow...I still remember all this...), and -depending on your status- requires three years continuous residence (for a fiance immigrant, like 1poorlady). Citizenship takes 5 years before you can apply (N-400).

Been through all this. Granted, over 25 years ago. I suspect it hasn't change that much.

Sorry, if you do the paperwork right it takes around a year to 18 months to get a green card - assuming you're eligible.

Employment-based green cards take much longer than this. At least, it did when I was trying to get one.

Perplexity says:
"Employment-Based Green Cards
Processing times for employment-based green cards can vary widely and may take several years, depending on the specific category and country of origin."

Seems clear, this the guy we should want designing our bridges and missile systems. Who cares if his pottery skills are undeveloped?

I can't tell if you're attempting more 'humor' or if you're, again, denigrating the value of a well rounded education to the citizenry of a nation.

"Their families may have been in the US for several generations. You don't know."

Correct. I do not know. I do know that some cultures place a higher value on education and have a stronger work ethic than others.

Here's one of the ads I was referring to (WAPO, not NYT) .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/creativegroup/3m/th...

The top 10 3M winners:

https://news.3m.com/14-year-old-named-Americas-Top...

I found this, which shows I'm not off as much as Dope is. :)

Total green card processing times

2024 regular processing time (end of Q1): 1,146 days / 38 months / 3.1 years

If paying $2,805 premium processing fee: 961 days / 31.6 months / 2.6 years

2023 regular processing time: 1,046 days / 34 months / 2.9 years

If paying the premium processing fee: 930 days / 31 months / 2.5 years

2016 regular processing time: 705 days / 23 months / 1.9 years

If paying the premium processing fee: 567 days / 19 months / 1.6 years

https://www.cato.org/blog/employer-sponsored-green...

ME: So processing time has gone up. My wife's took longer because she had to send for some paperwork. However, it still isn't 5 years.

At Polytechnic I did Electrical Engineering. No languages, no English class, no pottery, painting, ice skating or wine-tasting. Math and engineering only. I've sometimes been amazed at the lack of knowledge of Electrical Engineers with master's degrees from prestigious US universities. Different expectations.

I'd expect that from any type of Tech Institute. Well rounded liberal arts educations give people something to think about while they are doing work drudgery. :) As one friend told me, "Gave me something to think about while plowing the north forty." Unfortunately, you end up with classes in Wicca, or something even more valuable - The History of Rock and Roll! As told by Chuck Berry to Keef Richardson and Paul McCartney.

Quiz:
How old was the girl Jerry Lee Lewis married that got him in trouble with the Brits and shut down his tour?

How old was the girl Chuck Berry crossed state lines with and sent him to jail?

What year did Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul, and Mary get tossed into jail for exposing himself to two young girl fans and asking for sex?

What rock stars with initials JP and DB were known to have sex with very young girls?

Anyone can answer, if they wish.

White 401K Liberals have been anti immigrant for decades when it comes to tech.

The top 10 3M winners:

Yes, a fellow nerd! :)

IMO, the "well-rounded education" exposes a person to more ideas (philosophy) for them to ponder, provides nuance (history), gives them a basis in reality (science), and just general exposure to things that otherwise they probably won't get when "plowing the north 40". May not help them with the plowing, but helps them with evaluating what people are telling them (including politicians). I don't think you have a calibrated BS meter if you don't have a well-rounded education. Education is for more than just job training.

Didn't know any of your 'rock' questions, though I did know that Lewis married his cousin (underage), and had heard of most of the rest of those artists.

IMO, the "well-rounded education" exposes a person to more ideas

I think it's very helpful, and it doesn't hinder - like some think it would. Many entrepreneurs have liberal arts educations and think it gives them advantages. I think life is the best calibrator for that BS meter.

Jerry Lee - 12, Chuck Berry - 14, Yarrow - 1970, DB = David Bowie, JP = Jimmy Page

Opops, my joke got busted. :)

But seriously, Rammy has not told us what about our culture is bad, and I don't hate to say it, it slike he's saying the lack of interest in the West, South, Midwest in STEM is the problem. So he's saying MAGA culture is the problem. Gotta go. :)

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/v...

Might as well have a sign for employments based immigrant visas (green cards) that says "Indians and Chinese need not apply".

But seriously, Rammy has not told us what about our culture is bad,

You’re taking L’s faster than Shane Beamer and the SEC today. Congrats!

So you think American culture is just a-okay, eh?

Is national service or education job 1 for America’s youth? Are engineering jobs “cool”?

Look Dope, are you going to converse or pretend? It appears you just want to pretend and put words in my mouth because you have nothing to say.

I've come to the conclusion the poor cultures Rammy is talking about are MAGA cultures, but I'm open to hear something rational. It looks like Musk went on the defensive about wages - which is fine. Do you have any honest opinions here? It's pretty clear Trump talked about the H1B as if he used it when he doesn't. We here about mass deportations, tariffs, taking over and buying countries, pardoning Jan 6ers, but not even concepts of a plan so far - just hot air.

It looks like if the people coming in on H1B visas stay and become citizens, they will become "401K liberals" in your book. Exactly how does this fit into the master plan to make America great and increase the income of the bottom 60%? Who quickly benefits from this?

H1's or not......


From entry level, to C-Suite, White Liberals are worried and resentful.

Dope1 makes a great point about coolness of engineering jobs.

One step further....

In major population centers, Liberalss have set up generations growing up in broken homes

What is their level of proficiency in the basics? Are they going to engineering school?

Nope.

As I predicted on TMF --- skills will be sought after. And White Liberals will be threatened by it.

Racists they are.

It's ok, they'll be bought and sold :)

Look Dope, are you going to converse or pretend?

Heh. You’re getting only light pushback. What’s wrong with your statements being challenged?

I've come to the conclusion the poor cultures Rammy is talking about are MAGA cultures,

You’ve got the wrong conclusion. You should re-read the questions I asked you.

As for H1-B’s, there are several things on the table. They’ll raise the minimum salary and reduce green cards to lower end workers to net it out.

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