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In today's post at the Bulwark by Tim Miller, entitled "Don't Let Donald Trump Take Your Soul, Too", Miller writes:



1. The Temptation of LOLNMR
There was a phrase in vogue during the Pleistocene Trump years that became a rallying cry for professional Republican types who at the time were still trying to work through their comfort level with the party’s new overlord. It shielded them from having to really grapple with the moral compromises of their new station. If you were a Twitter addict, you will likely recall it:

LOL Nothing Matters.

In the chapter of Why We Did It in which I sketched out the different phenotypes of Trumpian enablers, I described these Republicans this way:

Then you had the LOL Nothing Matters Republicans. This cadre gained steam over the years, especially among my former peers in the campaign set. It is a comforting ethos if you are professionally obligated to defend the indefensible day in and day out. Their arguments no longer needed to have merit or be consistent because, LOL, nothing matters. . . . The LOLNMRs had decided that if someone like Trump could win, then everything that everyone does in politics is meaningless. So they became nihilists.

Seductive (I guess), but ultimately damning.

Tired of Christian Nationalists forcing the idea of a "soul" on us.

For all the atheists here who dump on Christianity and Judaism (but are strangely silent when it comes to giving Islam and Hinduism crap - gee, wonder why?)...they're all members of a church.

The Church of Progressivism.

It's their God and Jesus all rolled into 1 thing. It's not a surprise they think Republicans worship Trump...because that's the lens they view the world - to them, politics is God.

It's their God and Jesus all rolled into 1 thing. It's not a surprise they think Republicans worship Trump...because that's the lens they view the world - to them, politics is God.

Interesting defense from the side that has rolled support of Donald Trump and evangelical Christianity into “1 thing”, who openly say (perhaps not you personally, Dope, but I’ve personally received this comment and have seen it proclaimed many times)…. You can’t be a Christian and a Democrat”.

All politicians are human and prone to sin, but only one party supports positions that are antithetical to the teachings and life of Jesus, and politicians who flaunt their violence and moral cretinism as if it’s a good thing.

You can’t be a Christian and a Democrat”.

Because you can't root for killing babies left and right and call yourself a Christian. It's rather clearly stated in places like Catholicism, for one.

democrats also reject the traditional family structure and seek to replace the normal nuclear family with the government as a protospouse.

Witness "Julia".

Because you can't root for killing babies left and right and call yourself a Christian. It's rather clearly stated in places like Catholicism, for one.

You must have missed the standard I set- the life and teachings of Jesus himself, not his interpreters.

It’s all there as found in the four gospels- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Show me where he says a word about abortion.

Or homosexuality for that matter.

Lots about grace and mercy. Lots about love and being hospitable to strangers.

But not a word about abortion.

You must have missed the standard I set- the life and teachings of Jesus himself, not his interpreters.


Did Jesus go around aborting babies? Don’t recall that in the Bible.

Did Jesus go around aborting babies? Don’t recall that in the Bible.

That is the most ridiculous argument I’ve seen you come up with recently.

Nor did Jesus go around preventing abortions either.

Your point?

The point is obvious. The whole Thou Shalt Not Kill thing.

But not a word about abortion.

You must have missed the standard I set- the life and teachings of Jesus himself, not his interpreters

I wouldn’t know, but God’s sixth Commandment tells us, ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill’

Bible reference - Exodus 20:13: “You shall not murder.”

“Scripture tells us that the God who knows the end from the beginning also knows people even before they are born--he sees every aspect of their lives before they’ve even lived one moment in the world.”

“In Jeremiah 1:5, “the word of the Lord” came to the prophet Jeremiah, who was a young man at the time. God said to him: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations” (1:5).

Bill, Do you dispute the word of God? Abortion is the killing of the child in the womb?

Bill, Do you dispute the word of God? Abortion is the killing of the child in the womb?

LM, we’ve had this discussion before. I disagree with your reading of not only the particular interpretation of the verse you cite, but also the entirety of scripture that gives that verse its proper context.

The Jews who wrote Exodus would point you to Genesis 2:7 (which they also wrote).

7 then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground[a] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

This verse is still interpreted by many rabbis to mean that when a baby takes its first breath, it is no longer a fetus but has become a living, breathing human being, worthy of full protection and the full rights of personhood.

Until birth, the pregnant woman alone should be the one who determines how much protection should be afforded
the life within her

What MAGA "Christians" support...

Guns...Guns are the leading cause of death for American children. How many died today? Anyone? If you vote republican blood is on your hands. Will God overlook the suffering and death MAGA voters have caused?

Child poverty...child poverty is up sharply, because Republicans in Congress (plus Manchin and Sinema) refused to renew the expanded Child Tax Credit in President Biden's American Rescue Plan.
Will God overlook the suffering MAGA voters have caused?
"Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed." 45 (Psalm 82:3)

A President (Trump) who is a wealthy, racist, an adulterer, a rapist and a proven liar. Will God overlook the suffering MAGA voters have caused?
Proverbs 12:22: "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight." "You shall not commit adultery." "Adulterers God will judge."
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

A MAGA movement that is steeped in fear and hatred...mass deportation, "law and order", and policing gender identity. IE hatred of minorities, LBGT folks, the poor.
John 3:15: "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him."

A minimum wage that is exactly where it was 15 years ago, $7.25 because the GOP has blocked all attempts to raise it. Keeping the poor, poor. Will God overlook the suffering MAGA voters have caused?
Proverbs 14:31: "Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him."
(Fortunately the minimum wage is higher in blue states, where folks also have better educations and higher life expectancies.)

Jesus said, "I was a stranger and you invited me in." MAGA says, "you are a stranger, you are poisoning our blood and we will round you up and separate you from your children."

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." ~Thomas Jefferson

Do you dispute the word of God?

And there lies the problem mixing religion and politics. How can one dispute the word of God?

I think LM believes that the Bible was written by God. But I ask, which one? There are over 3,000 versions of the Bible. There are over 60 versions of the Bible in English alone. Did you know the are 3 different versions of the 10 Commandments in the Bible itself. And the 10 Commandments were written in stone!

Religion and the Bible have human fingerprints all over them.

While I believe in God (not logical, but I have my reasons), I would never be so presumptuous as to speak for God.

The Bible has been used by man to justify all kinds of actions, including murdering innocent people and slavery. As Shakespeare presciently noted many centuries ago; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

Until birth, the pregnant woman alone should be the one who determines how much protection should be afforded the life within her”

“My life, my body” is a slogan derived from liberals, not from a God given right to abort a viable child in the womb.

Interesting isn’t it those who made it ‘out’ alive are okay with denying the same for an unborn child in the womb.

"...child poverty is up sharply, because Republicans in Congress refused to renew the expanded Child Tax Credit
Will God overlook the suffering MAGA voters have caused?
"Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed."

Typical lib, ignoring the silver lining.
Many children, such as Mr. Huang's, will be able to live the American Dream.
I can't wait to see the new crypto-IRS that will evolve in the next 4 yrs.

"The $7 million of shares that Mr. Huang moved into his trust in 2012 are today worth more than $3 billion. If those shares were directly passed on to Mr. Huang’s heirs, they would be taxed at 40 percent — or well over $1 billion.

Instead, the tax bill will probably be no more than a few hundred thousand dollars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/05/business/nvidia...

I think LM believes that the Bible was written by God.

The Bible has been used by man to justify all kinds of actions, including murdering innocent people and slavery. As Shakespeare presciently noted many centuries ago; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

No Alpfa, you have it wrong. I haven’t attended Church in years except for a funeral or a wedding. I am not a religious person except when it comes to aborting a viable child.
I have two wonderful son I cannot imagine living without. They were born during the worst possible times of DH and mine life. Never once did abortion entered my mind.

Another interesting point....
The Free World was horrified when Hamas invaded Israel murdering and butchering children and babies.
Yet Planned Parenthood does the same, aborting viable babies every single day and shrug,
‘My life, My body’ none of your (my) business.

Thank you, Banksy

in the book Lucky Loser , the authors state the amount of Estate Tax the Trump family paid. I
can't remember the exact number, but it was along the lines of 7-8%, or so. It was remarkably
low consider the size of the Estate.

Fred Trump, and his offspring committed tax fraud their entire lives. And it was not legal
tax avoidance, but fraud. Government officials and the Main Stream Media are responsible for
Trump being literally Above The Law. The myth's and fairy tales that Trump spewed were not
investigated, but given credence. The biggest myth is that Trump was a great businessman.
He was bailed out repeatedly by Fred Trump. If not for Big Daddy, DJT would have been an abject
failure. And when everything was failing, along came The Apprentice, and that led to the licensing of Trump's name, his "brand". And it was all a total fairy tale.

The next 4 years are going to something, lol.

“My life, my body” is a slogan derived from liberals, not from a God given right to abort a viable child in the womb.

Interesting isn’t it those who made it ‘out’ alive are okay with denying the same for an unborn child in the womb.

Funny how those at a distance think they have a right to order a woman to continue a pregnancy.

Funny how those at a distance think they have a right to order a woman to continue a pregnancy.


Funny the pretzels the pro-abortion crowd will twist themselves into so as to justify their position.

Funny how those at a distance think they have a right to order a woman to continue a pregnancy

Oh ya, reach in your bag of liberal, dem talking points.

Come up with a better cliche....

Interesting isn’t it those who made it ‘out’ alive are okay with denying the same for an unborn child in the womb.

Far more interesting is those who have not been shot dead deny the same right to children:
Firearms are currently the leading cause of death for children in the United States.
Firearms were responsible for approximately 18% of deaths in individuals aged 1 to 18.
It's important to note that no other country has firearms listed among the top four causes of child mortality.
This situation is unique to the United States and highlights the urgent need for Republicans to stop ignoring the carnage they are responsible for.

The Red State of Texas has one of the nation's most restrictive abortion laws, they completely control women's bodies and their lives.
Texas is among the 9 states with total abortion bans that lack exceptions for rape or incest.
Texas has had 26,313 rape-caused pregnancies during the 16 months after implementing a near-total abortion ban following the overturning of Roe v. Wade in June 2022.

This is your heartless/brainless Republican Party, folks. They ignore the fact that guns are the leading cause of death for children,
and they’ll force a ten-year-old to give birth to her stepfather’s rape-baby, and tell you they are doing the Lord's work!

Just in general - historically abortions were going on in Jesus time. The plant silphium was used to induce abortion, and, IIRC, it was also used to prevent pregnancy. So abortion was going on and it wasn't considered murder. I'm pointing out that an all knowing God knew it was going on and didn't condemn the practice or instill in his nascent followers that it was wrong. God could easily have done that, but he didn't.

God decided to tell the Catholic Church in the 1800s, but didn't tell the other churches. So any woman who had an abortion prior to the 1800s went to hell and didn't know why until they got to hell. God decided to tell the other churches only recently, and prior to that the women were surprised when entering hell. Men get off scot-free, unless they were coveting the neighbor's wife and caused an abortion that way - but the coveting was the sin, not helping an abortion.

Now you can end up in hell by taking the Lord's name in vain, so is it possible there are other sins we can go to hell for that God hasn't told us about? Just how many people are in hell for unknown sins?

Now you can end up in hell by taking the Lord's name in vain, so is it possible there are other sins we can go to hell for that God hasn't told us about? Just how many people are in hell for unknown sins?

Pretty sure voting for Trump gets you an eternal stay in beautiful downtown Hell. MAGA!

Firearms are currently the leading cause of death for children in the United States.

Yes, a topic to discuss in another thread. Stay focused on this thread.

Funny the pretzels the pro-abortion crowd will twist themselves into so as to justify their position.

Funny the pretzels the anti-mother crowd will twist themselves into so as to call “pro-choice”…. “Pro-abortion”.

Yes, a topic to discuss in another thread. Stay focused on this thread.

I started this thread, and when I did, it wasn’t about abortion either.

I allowed you and Dope to hijack my thread and was kind enough even to respond to your hijacking posts.

Please allow another poster the courtesy of hijacking your hijack of my thread😇

“Please allow another poster the courtesy of hijacking your hijack of my thread😇”

My apologies 😌

Funny the pretzels the pro-abortion crowd will twist themselves into so as to justify their position.

Funny how the MAGA crowd cares so much about eggs & sperm and so little about actual children.

Children are more likely to die by guns than anything else...

And of course more children die of gun violence in red states compared to blue states.
The data shows a clear trend of higher firearm mortality rates among children and teens in Republican-leaning states:
Mississippi, a red state, had the highest firearm mortality rate at 33.9 per 100,000.
Other red states with high firearm mortality rates include Louisiana (29.1), Alabama (26.4), Wyoming (26.1), and Alaska (25.2).
In contrast, blue states have significantly lower firearm mortality rates. Massachusetts, a blue state, had the lowest rate at 3.4 per 100,000,
followed by other blue states like Hawaii (4.8), New Jersey (5.2), and New York (5.4).

Overall, 15 of the 20 states with the highest firearm mortality rates are led by Republicans.

https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/the-...

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116676/...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2023/0...

Funny the pretzels the anti-mother crowd will twist themselves into so as to call “pro-choice”…. “Pro-abortion”.


They're for abortions, loads of then, so it's not a stretch. But warping the Bible? That's frickin' epic. Guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

My life, my body” is a slogan derived from liberals, not from a God given right to abort a viable child in the womb.

There is no 'God' of the kind you want to imagine. It's superstition and nonsense.

Your welcome to it, of course, but keep it out of our government.

Your welcome to it, of course, but keep it out of our government.

Yes ges, I agree.

One should not refer to a developing human as a child.

The correct terms are zygote, embryo, then fetus.

A zygote can be further subdivided into; morula, blastula, gastrula, and neurula by stages.

Misidentifying as a "child" these stages of development is a disingenuous emotional appeal.

Quite the opposite. It’s easy to remove a “thing” named by biological terms than admit what is being doing is whacking a, say, 8 and half month term baby.

It’s easy to remove a “thing” named by biological terms than admit what is being doing is whacking a, say, 8 and half month term baby.

No, it’s not easy. Late term abortions only occur when a fetus has severe deformities like not having a brain (something I assume you’re familiar with) or if the mother’s life is endangered.

Also, for the the ignorant, abortions of babies “even after birth” are called murder.

You can’t fix stupid.

Quite the opposite. It’s easy to remove a “thing” named by biological terms than admit what is being doing is whacking a, say, 8 and half month term baby.

Baby refers to the period after birth. Dead refers to either a fetus or a baby after a bullet passes through it.

Misidentifying as a "child" these stages of development is a disingenuous emotional appeal.

Right. It is a deliberately duplicitous category error. At best, a zygote is a potential child. But a potential child that is barely more so than a sperm or an egg prior to fertilization. And with the right cloning technique, so to is any of one's 30+ trillion somatic cells with a complete complement of DNA a potential child!

Late term abortions only occur when a fetus has severe deformities like not having a brain (something I assume you’re familiar with) or if the mother’s life is endangered.

Also, for the the ignorant, abortions of babies “even after birth” are called murder.


Another lib not familiar with the law in blue places.
And refusing to accept the ramifications.

libs lie to themselves before they lie to others.

“One should not refer to a developing human as a child
Misidentifying as a "child" these stages of development is a disingenuous emotional appeal.”

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Dehumanizing a late term child is how they can mentally execute the gymnastics. Because if they ever faced up to what was happening they'd change their tunes en masse.

whacking a, say, 8 and half month term baby.

Nobody is “whacking” a viable fetus 8 and a half months into a pregnancy.

No one.

—Peter

Nobody is “whacking” a viable fetus 8 and a half months into a pregnancy.

No one.

—Peter
****

So there is a juncture in pregnancy where you are Pro-Life, and Anti-Abortion.

Nobody is “whacking” a viable fetus 8 and a half months into a pregnancy.

That’s what a late term abortion is. Do keep up.

So there is a juncture in pregnancy where you are Pro-Life, and Anti-Abortion.

They’ll fall all over themselves proclaiming How Moderate They Are but when it comes to even the smallest restriction on their sacrament (abortions)…

…they’ll push back.

On no issue should anyone give liberals even a millimeter of room. Make them defend every aspect of their whacked-out positions.

So there is a juncture in pregnancy where you are Pro-Life, and Anti-Abortion.

That doesn't follow from what I said. You're trying to put words in my mouth. I merely stated a fact, not an opinion or a position.

The fact is that third trimester abortions are incredibly rare. About 1% of total abortions. And while I don't have the data handy, I don't think there are many - any?? - doctors who would actually perform an *elective* abortion that late in a pregnancy. I suspect it would be against the medical profession's code of ethics, and quite possibly punishable as some form of murder or manslaughter. Those abortions that do happen late in pregnancy are virtually all due to extremely difficult circumstances - the fetus is dead or dying or killing the mother.

So to complain about "whacking" an 8 1/2 month fetus is to complain about the sun rising in the west. It just doesn't happen. Not in the way Dope implied.

--Peter

That’s what a late term abortion is. Do keep up.

I am keeping up just fine, thank you. While I agree that is what an elective late term abortion could be considered, my claim is that they don't happen. I just explained it to Jedi, so I won't repeat it here.

Got any examples of what you claim is happening?

--Peter

While I agree that is what an elective late term abortion

Good. Then we’re done.
BTW the guy you wanted as VP knows a thing or two about late term abortions…and beyond.

Nobody is “whacking” a viable fetus 8 and a half months into a pregnancy.

No one.

The idea that a woman carries a pregnancy for 8 1/2 months, goes through the vomiting, waddling, pain, weight gain, change of body, incessant peeing, and all the other physical manifestations of pregnancy, and then wakes up one morning and says, “You know what? I’m going to get an abortion instead” is so ridiculous as to be unbelievable, except by the morons who promote this sort of claptrap.

Late term pregnancies are done for two reasons and two reasons only: the fetus is not viable or the life of the mother is in danger. Full. Stop.

People who continue this line of argument should be laughed off the internet.

I just explained it to Jedi, so I won't repeat it here.
Got any examples of what you claim is happening?

Of course he doesn't.

You're arguing with a die-hard right wing extremist whose goal is to argue against every position he perceives to be a 'Lib/Dem' belief or position.

He can drive that clown car in circles alllll day long without ever coming close to acknowledging a fact, directly answering a question, or substantiating a TrumpCult talking point. His clown car runs on 100Foxctane, eternally renewable, logical fallacies and bullshit.

You're arguing with a die-hard right wing extremist whose goal is to argue against every position he perceives to be a 'Lib/Dem' belief or position.

He can drive that clown car in circles alllll day long without ever coming close to acknowledging a fact, directly answering a question, or substantiating a TrumpCult talking point. His clown car runs on 100Foxctane, eternally renewable, logical fallacies and bullshit.
***

Part of the reason you helped SCOTUS be mostly Righty - and not Bush right - but Falwell right.

Are you happy?

His clown car runs on 100Foxctane

How have I lived this long without ever seeing this?

Did you come up with this, sano?

If you did, thank you for adding a wonderful descriptor to the lexicon of political Americana.

Even if you didn’t, it’s worth a rec….. and a steal.

My day has been brightened.

Peace,
Bill Z

He can drive that clown car in circles alllll day long without ever coming close to acknowledging a fact, directly answering a question, or substantiating a TrumpCult talking point. His clown car runs on 100Foxctane, eternally renewable, logical fallacies and bullshit.

Thanks for giving me a good chuckle. : )

Did you come up with this, sano? His clown car runs on 100Foxctane logical fallacies and bullshit.

Guilty as charged...and me without an copyright atty or agent!

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