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Author: WatchingTheHerd HONORARY
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Number: of 48473 
Subject: The Mythical Undecided Voter
Date: 06/14/2024 6:00 PM
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June 14 is two weeks past a history making guilty verdict in a criminal trial involving a past President and current Presidential candidate and two weeks prior to the first of two promised debates between the two Presidential candidates. That's as good a time as any to dispense with the fallacy of the undecided voter and pre-emptively debunk all remaining "news coverage" of the 2024 race. Here's the news flash:

There isn't a single American who hasn't made up their mind on their preference for President, US Senator, US Representative, Governor, State Senator, State Representative, Attorney General or Secretary of State. Even if their state hasn't completed primaries for these races, I doubt a single American is truly undecided about how they will vote. R or D it is. The actual name doesn't matter.

The only problem with predicting the outcome of the election is that some percentage of potential voters don't want to discuss their choice, even with an anonymous pollster and some percentage are so clueless about the consequences of this election that they might feign sophistication and disgust at "how political" everything has become and not vote at all because "it's all so meaningless."

Since 2016, a dynamic which first took hold after the 2000 election turmoil has come to dominate any attempts at political chit chat at work or around the neighborhood. In a small enough group -- bigger than one on one which becomes immediately awkward and smaller than (say) six where hinting at "politics" might be viewed as coercive -- any talk of current events will tip toe round the economy, inflation, employment trends (especially involving lazy youth and immigration) and "law and order." At some point, I find those I suspect lean "conservative" will then very... very... gingerly hint that the current President is "out to lunch" or "looks absent minded at the podium," etc. Then they'll back off as if "got my point across..."

I make it a point not to draw people out in public situations nor do I attempt to counter every point (or even any of them) being made. However, I find it interesting to test their awareness of events and facts on all sides any particular topic or issue. This week, in this kind of conversation, some gaffe that Biden made was brought up in this exact kind of conversation. I listened to the point, listened to others weigh in on the point as well, then quietly asked... "If you think Biden is having trouble connecting the dots, did you see Trump's rally in Las Vegas where he wandered off script when talking about electric cars? He started by outlining his thoughts on how he would want to die if he was in an electric vehicle that fell into the water and risked electrocuting him as the water shorted the battery out then went on a further tangent about dying by electrocution versus being bitten by a shark."

"Nope. Never seen that..."

That was it. No more conversation. End of that topic. I don't think I "won" my point. I don't even think it registered. I didn't expect it to register. I don't think the person involved has any interest in accepting new information about their presumed preferred candidate. They have internalized the idea Biden is "feeble" and "feeble" means "weak" and they don't want to vote for anything that makes them contemplate "weakness" so their mind is made up.

To be perfectly clear, there are people who might be inclined to vote either Democratic or Republican who fall into the "sophisticated cynic" camp. These people are equally idiotic and completely ignorant of history and the potential impact on the rule of law and the operation of our judicial system based on the outcome of this election.

So what SHOULD voters be contemplating in 2024 if they really want to make a sound decision about the two looming candidates? Perhaps the best way is a modern day resurrection of a series of old Doonesbury comics from October of 1980, a series Gary Trudeau called "In Search of Reagan's Brain - Brought to you by Anacin."

If you don't get the reference, check it out here:

https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1980/10/27

I strongly recommend clicking the single arrow button > to step through that entire week's strip.

Here in 2024, America has had four years to observe the brain of BOTH candidates in the highest office in the land. America now faces a choice between two elderly men facing equal problems with energy level and the ability to connect points of thought in their head accurately and rapidly for extended periods of time.

HOWEVER...

One candidate's head is filled predominately by accurate facts about the physical world, economics and government and new ideas that are formed regarding his official actions seem to have a consistent pattern of trying to provide economic or social improvements to OTHERS. He has an entire cabinet of officials with similar collections of reality-based facts about the real world they use in assisting him. When he vacated his Senate seat to become Vice President, he was among the least wealthy Senators. His current net worth is estimated to be around $10 million dollars, much of it from appreciation in real estate from owning two homes. He clearly did not make a life of politics with the intent or result of exploiting his position or inside information for money.

The other candidate's head is filled with fractured fairy tales, a horrifically incomplete understanding of history, science, the arts, etc.. The other candidate already burned through any halfway rational actor who might be willing to serve in his cabinet in his first Administration and it is now clear the bar on the rationality scale isn't just low, the candidate demands IRRATIONALITY and a willingness to abuse power in exchange for admittance to his circle. Even prior to his first Presidency, this candidate had a 30+ year track record of financial failures, civil fraud convictions and personal moral failures across three marriages. More importantly, any action taken by this candidate can be consistently, repeatedly traced to his own financial or legal self-interest and most can be consistently traced to immediate and long-lasting bad outcomes for America. Everything this candidate undertakes is animated primarily by hate, greed, fear and revenge.

If I am forced to choose between two candidates with equal deficits in "connecting mental dots" together, I will opt for the choice who at least has dots based on reality and isn't animated in every waking moment by such vile motives. And for the record, that is not damning Biden with faint praise. Many questions can be posed about the financial wisdom of the college debt relief program or US strategy regarding Israel and the Hamas war but overall, Biden's Administration has achieved what EVERY other industrial economy dreamed of at the outset of COVID -- a rapid financial recovery rather than a depression and a "soft landing" as stimulus was pulled back from the economy. US labor markets and competitive forces are not perfect but would workers feel better with unemployment at seven percent and economic growth at one percent instead of three? Uhhhhh... No.

The reality in 2024 is that there are no truly undecided voters left to sway. There are only those that have made up their mind and will share their preference, those that have made up their minds but will not share their preference and a smaller block that are too clueless to vote. The only factor changing poll results is the random selection of those polled. The only factor that can change the final outcome is apathy in those that can't be bothered to vote. But even the apathetic have made up their mind.


WTH

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Author: ges 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48473 
Subject: Re: The Mythical Undecided Voter
Date: 06/14/2024 8:26 PM
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The other candidate's head is filled with fractured fairy tales, a horrifically incomplete understanding of history, science, the arts, etc.. The other candidate already burned through any halfway rational actor who might be willing to serve in his cabinet in his first Administration and it is now clear the bar on the rationality scale isn't just low, the candidate demands IRRATIONALITY and a willingness to abuse power in exchange for admittance to his circle. Even prior to his first Presidency, this candidate had a 30+ year track record of financial failures, civil fraud convictions and personal moral failures across three marriages. More importantly, any action taken by this candidate can be consistently, repeatedly traced to his own financial or legal self-interest and most can be consistently traced to immediate and long-lasting bad outcomes for America. Everything this candidate undertakes is animated primarily by hate, greed, fear and revenge.

The choice is so clear.

But not if you get all your information from the right wing media-sphere. Like Dope who claims that the mainstream media is publishing propaganda. They've turned everything upside down in their cultish desire to support the worst POTUS candidate and former POTUS this country has ever suffered through.

I cannot fathom how anyone can support such an awful person, such an incompetent buffoon, such a corrupt grifter as Trump. But millions do.
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Author: bighairymike   😊 😞
Number: of 48473 
Subject: Re: The Mythical Undecided Voter
Date: 06/14/2024 8:37 PM
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I cannot fathom how anyone can support such an awful person, such an incompetent buffoon, such a corrupt grifter as Trump. But millions do. - ges

-------------

Two words....

"Security" and "Prosperity"

More please.
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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48473 
Subject: Re: The Mythical Undecided Voter
Date: 06/14/2024 9:16 PM
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Trump provided neither.

Security? He threatened to leave NATO. He abandoned our role in SE Asia / Pacific, which China was more than happy to fill. He alienated our allies, making the world a lot less safe. He can't even be credited with border security because the coronavirus took care of that for him (allowed him to enact Title 42).

He literally did nothing for four years, except spread COVID misinformation (and other misinformation) and embolden Russia and China to stretch out their tentacles.

Prosperity is trickier since we can't really blame him for the economic paralysis associated with COVID. However, he did add trillions to the national debt with his tax cut for rich people. Which wasn't good. (I thought you were a budget hawk.)

Oh...and, if elected, he's promising more tax cuts. As if the deficit wasn't exploded enough already.
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Author: AlphaWolf 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48473 
Subject: Re: The Mythical Undecided Voter
Date: 06/15/2024 2:09 AM
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No. of Recommendations: 12
Prosperity is trickier since we can't really blame him for the economic paralysis associated with COVID.

While Trump cannot be blamed for COVID, he has full responsibility for his response to the COVID pandemic.

Trump’s release of emergency funding for developing a vaccine was one of the best moves he made. And then he made it difficult to get, encouraged people to take a medicine developed for horses, opined on injecting disinfectant, and using UV light inside bodies. These ideas, besides being dangerous, were incredibly stupid. And his base rejected the vaccine (or tried one of the stupid suggestions), prolonging and deepening the economic impact.

Biden was elected (fair and square) and immediately pushed the vaccine hard and made it available for free. This resulted not in a soft landing, but an economy that is the envy of the world.

Biden believed in science, Trump is just plain delusional.
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Author: Carpian 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48473 
Subject: Re: The Mythical Undecided Voter
Date: 06/17/2024 10:23 PM
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BHM:

Two words....

"Security" and "Prosperity"

More please.


Getting caught up here. I'm with you on the end goals, but I suspect we see the prospects of the candidates very differently.

For starters, which candidate was the one who said (to his supporters, no less) "I don't care about you. I just want your vote"? How does that translate into "security" for said supporters, let alone the opposition?

Which candidate has said he wants to be dictator for a day and will get revenge on his rivals?

Then there's nuclear war. I grew up in the 70's, with a constant underlying unease about the potential for nuclear war as weapons proliferated and we were not on great terms with Russia and China. That unease largely went away over the years until it reappeared when loose cannon egomaniac Trump was elected in 2016. He uses inflammatory rhetoric, trashes alliances, praises dictators and creates chaos and division. Not the stuff that "security" is made of. It was a happy day for me when his first term ended without us getting into a nuclear war. If he is re-elected, I would be much more worried with him having his finger on The Button. He wants only fame, and would love to do something to keep his name alive after he is gone, even if it takes doing something awful. He doesn't care. Not "security".

Then there's his disregard for and politicization of science and medicine, as well as the judiciary. When Covid struck, and he should have been playing a lead role in giving us reliable information and yes, keeping us "safe", he instead spewed a bunch of misinformation and turned his circus-like press conferences into infomercials for his business buddies like the My Pillow guy. This kind of stuff undermines the very foundations of what could help us feel a sense of more "security".

Then there's the fact that he's a convicted felon, as are many of his closest associates. He faces other serious charges that he's trying to avoid, not by saying that he didn't do them but rather by claiming full immunity to prosecution. The good folks who have been around him tend to get left behind in his wake and trashed. "Security"?

I'm guessing that a large part of why you think Trump would provide more "security" is because you think he would provide a more secure border. As I'm sure you know, he nixed a bipartisan border deal because he didn't want Biden to get credit for it. That's "security"? (See "I don't care about you. I just want your vote.")

I'll also guess that another large part of why you think Trump would provide more security is because he is less likely to enact more strict gun ownership laws. Does that really provide more or less "security"? That subject has been studied and debated a lot, I won't repeat it here, but there certainly is a lot of evidence that the answer is "less".

I'm sure Paul Pelosi would have something to say about how much security Trump provides, and Heather Heyer if she could. And the capitol police.

I'm sure I'm leaving out a lot of other evidence of Trump's corruption and lack of caring for the populace, but that's enough for now. Oh, what the heck, I'll throw in a "losers and suckers" reference as well. That should get the point across.

As far as "prosperity" goes, Covid has complicated the picture for both administrations. I can understand how someone could feel Trump is more economically savvy (if you buy into his claims of how wealthy he is and ignore the fact that he started with a lot of wealth and has had six companies go into bankruptcy and has been convicted of tax fraud, misused his charitable foundation and defrauded students at his University--come to think of it, those have a lot to do with "security" as well).

I do hope you're not one of the many who think that we're in a recession, that the stock has been down for the last couple years, and that unemployment is at a 50-year high.

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