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When senate minority leader Mitch McConnell rose to cast Kentucky's votes for the convicted felon rapist, giving a grin and a thumbs up, the crowd booed him. Nikki Haley was invited to speak at the convention if she would agree to kiss the ring and she did so, after just a few months ago saying this: "Many of the same politicians publicly embrace Trump, privately dread him. They know what a disaster he's been and will continue to be. They are just too afraid to say it out loud. I'm not afraid to say the hard truth out loud. I feel no need to kiss the ring."

The Republican National Convention did not invite former president George W Bush, former republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, former republican vice president Dick Cheney, nor former republican House Speaker Paul Ryan because they would have been booed off the stage by the crowd. If they were alive today, Ronald Reagan, George HW Bush, and John McCain would be booed by the crowd, as well.

And all for a rapist who was convicted on 34 counts of business fraud, fined hundreds of millions of dollars for defamation, was impeached twice, staged a coup, called American war dead suckers and losers, quotes Hitler, praises dictators and said he'll be one if elected, wants to leave NATO, said he'll abandon Ukraine to Russia, had his charity shut down for spending charitable contributions on himself, bankrupted casinos, hotels, Trump Shuttle, Trump University, Trump Vodka, Trump Mortgage, Trump Steaks, and Trump Water, who lies with every breath, believes wind turbines cause cancer, thinks electric-powered airplanes will drop from the sky when it's cloudy, never talks policy or solutions but loves to contemplate dying by boat battery electrocution versus being eaten by a shark, and thought there were airports during the Revolutionary War.

Ah, the Grand Old Party is dead and gone.

But it's not a cult.

Ah, the Grand Old Party is dead and gone.

Yes - it's certainly been altered beyond recognition.

Not just in the U.S., BTW. The old Reagan-Thatcherite model of right-wing and center-right parties has been thrown out all across Europe as well. The old conservative parties have been chucked, replaced by right-wing populist parties. The RN in France, AfG in Germany...they're an amalgam of right-wing nationalism and support for the social welfare state and protectionism.

But again....this is why Democrats won't be able to run an effective "Project 2025" campaign against Trump. He's destroyed the Establishment Republican wing of the party. The Romney/Bush faction was cast out into exile. The free trade and austerity group has been purged. It's not just that these folks are no longer ascendant in the GOP - they've been expunged from the party, persona non grata. It's not just a fairly obvious fact of Trumpism, but it's something that Democrats are actively telling voters.

But you can't be out there telling voters that and then simultaneously argue that this is still your grandfather's GOP. That even as the crowd rains thunderous boos down on Mitch McConnell, and Mitt Romney can't even show his face, that the Trump Administration is actually going to be wired so that faction of the party is going to be given control over policy. Paul Ryan would be hung from the rafters if he showed up in Milwaukee, but Trump's going to let that side of the party really be in charge of his economic policy?

I understand why Democrats want to do this. They've got an excellent political playbook for running against the old Reaganite GOP. Drowning a shrunken government in a bathtub is an unpopular policy, because people like a lot of what government does (Medicare, Social Security, building roads, etc.). So Democrats were able to keep a lot of voters on their side of the ticket by pointing out that the GOP wanted to drown a shrunken government in the bathtub. They'd really like to play that same campaign again without having to adjust to the fact that the GOP has changed...so they're going to try to convince voters that the GOP hasn't actually changed. By trying to convince voters to ignore everything they're seeing about the Populist takeover of the GOP (and almost every other right-wing party in the West)...to ignore a lot of what Democrats are saying about the Populist takeover of the GOP.

Again, though, it's hard to see that actually working. Paul Krugman can gesture at Project 2025 and say, "No, see, that's the real GOP! Don't believe what you see on the TV when McConnell gets boo'ed - his kind are still going to be in charge!" but I don't think it will work.

The Grand Old Party is indeed dead and gone - and pointing to its corpse in Project 2025 isn't going to convince anyone otherwise.

"Many of the same politicians publicly embrace Trump, privately dread him. They know what a disaster he's been and will continue to be. They are just too afraid to say it out loud. I'm not afraid to say the hard truth out loud. I feel no need to kiss the ring."

The erstwhile Republican Party spent decades cultivating their brain washed cult. Now it is the tail that wags the festering carrion dog carcass that was once a great political party.

"But again....this is why Democrats won't be able to run an effective "Project 2025" campaign against Trump."

Sure they can. Associating Project 2025 with Trump doesn't have to be absolutely true. It only needs to echo true.

Do you think Biden believes in open borders?

Associating Project 2025 with Trump doesn't have to be absolutely true. It only needs to echo true.

Do you think Biden believes in open borders?

No, I don’t - but as you point out, it echoes true. That’s the key. While Biden’s border policies are not actually “open borders,” they are more humane and protective of the nation’s interest in helping migrants than Trump. The “open borders” claim is a false exaggeration of Biden’s approach - but it’s leaning into the general position of the Democrats and Biden, not contradicting it.

I don’t think Project 2025 will “echo true” with the electorate. You’re not going to convince voters that Trump is secretly a free marketer who cares about cutting Social Security. It contradicts what commonone described at the top of the thread - Trump has excommunicated the establishment wing of the party. That’s so unbelievably visible to voters - so inherently part of the Trump brand - that you can’t get to that “truthiness” necessary for this to be an effective strategy.

The Grand Old Party is indeed dead and gone - and pointing to its corpse in Project 2025 isn't going to convince anyone otherwise.

Well, the leader of the GOP is frantically trying to distance himself from P2025, despite the fact that well over 100 of his former staff were involved in it.

That alone tells me it would be an effective message. Sure, you need a few clubs in your bag, but this is definitely one of them.

That's why I refuse to refer to it as the "GOP". It has been gone for almost 10 years.

I have hesitated to use "cult", but I'm starting to think it may be appropriate. A cult of personality. As the convict said, he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Ave and not lose a single vote. We have seen such populism in the past, and it never ended well.

Agreed. The Dems need to pivot and combat the party as it is now.

One aspect of P2025 that is ripe for attacking is "you know all those government services you like...well, those civil servants will be replaced by loyalists of unknown competence, and all those services will likely suffer administrative failures so that you don't get your checks, your potholes don't get filled, etc."

P2025 isn't about drowning government in a bathtub. It's about eliminating dissent. Eliminating EPA and NOAA, replacing competent people with loyalists...any source of dissent will not be tolerated.

Not dissimilar to how the Russian Federation collapsed into authoritarianism. It was once a democracy. Struggling, but a democracy. No more.

The Republican National Convention did not invite former president George W Bush, former republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, former republican vice president Dick Cheney, nor former republican House Speaker Paul Ryan because they would have been booed off the stage by the crowd. If they were alive today, Ronald Reagan, George HW Bush, and John McCain would be booed by the crowd, as well.

Well of course..Never Trumpers, who would want them around....but excluding Ronald Regan, I believe he would be of the same mindset as Trump.
George Bush? The Bush family hates President Trump. They will never forget how Trump humiliated Jeb Bush, he never recovered from it. It was suppose to be Jeb’s turn.

Whatever the Republican Party has revolved into by your definition, apparently the American people are loving it, wanting President Trump to save America from the damage Biden has done to our Country. The polls prove me right.

The rest of your rant? Pfft..don’t care

albaby1: But again....this is why Democrats won't be able to run an effective "Project 2025" campaign against Trump.

Seriously?

Here's what his running mate, J.D. Vance, said before Trump announced he was running: “I think Trump is going to run again in 2024. I think that what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people.’”

Right there in ‘Project 2025’ is that very proposal, to reclassify hundreds of federal bureaucrats as political appointees, and switch them out with more ideologically aligned replacements in the first hundred days of a second Trump presidency.

While tying Trump and Vance to Project 2025 may not be the best approach against them, it's still one that shouldn't be abandoned.

Vance has also said that Trump should ignore the courts, that when the courts stop you to “stand before the country, and say: ‘the chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.’”

Trump himself is on record saying he would terminate the Constitution.

Now here in the Midwest where we live, that sure sounds like naked authoritarianism.

But then what else would one expect from the Trump-Vance-Putin ticket?

While tying Trump and Vance to Project 2025 may not be the best approach against them, it's still one that shouldn't be abandoned.

This. It's not the only approach, it's just one tool in the tool bag to use. It's not going to be the "one tool to rule them all" (sorry, Tolkien), but it's a useful tool in the right time and right place.

So use it when it's appropriate.

--Peter

Umm: "Sure they can. Associating Project 2025 with Trump doesn't have to be absolutely true. It only needs to echo true. Do you think Biden believes in open borders?"

Well...More than half of the authors of the authoritarian playbook, Project 2025, are former Trump White House advisers or current campaign aides.
His own campaign press secretary is featured in a Project 2025 recruitment ad.

Trump personally thanked the think tank running Project 2025, the Heritage Foundation, at an April 2022 dinner:
"This is a great group, and they’re going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for exactly what our movement will do and what your movement
will do when the American people give us a colossal mandate to save America."

And for the MAGA lie that Biden believes in open borders, Here's the reality...

Trump said, and I quote, "The Senate is better off not making a deal, even if it means the country will close up for a while." Effectively killing a bipartisan bill that would have addressed the border problem.

Life long Republican Mitt Romney summed up the situation nicely:
"The border is a very important issue for Donald Trump, and the fact that he would communicate to Republican senators and congresspeople that
he doesn’t want us to solve the border problem because he wants to blame Joe Biden for it is really appalling."

Really appalling.

Well of course..Never Trumpers, who would want them around....but excluding Ronald Regan, I believe he would be of the same mindset as Trump.
George Bush? The Bush family hates President Trump. They will never forget how Trump humiliated Jeb Bush, he never recovered from it. It was suppose to be Jeb’s turn.

GWB retired from politics. He's happy out of the spotlight now.

Mitt Romney? Romney chose to try to play the John McCain game of grabbing the spotlight and tried (unsuccessfully) to get him some of that "Maverick" energy. Didn't work for him, so he's going to be retired from politics also. In other words, he made his bed and now he gets to lie in it.

What ChatNPC and others are mad about is that their usual methods of lazy posting and the democrats' lazy campaigning have to change. They're not facing the Washington Generals any more, they're up against an opponent that's decidedly non-milquetoast.

That means that you don't go on CNN and accept the premise of loaded, partisan questions. It means you have other ways of getting the message out without having to squirm your way through a lopsided panel or discussion where it's 4 democrats-pretending-to-be-journalists on 1 Republican.

In other words, the GOP has learned that you have to listen to the majority of Republican and Republican-adjacent voters. That means being strong on things like

-An economy that works for everybody
-Crime and public safety
-Curbing, not encouraging illegal immigration
-Not selling the country down the river

...and other common sense items.

The little d's are mad because the easy layup of the Paul Ryan throwing grandma down the stairs commercials are now off the table. They have one more card to play and that's the NAZINAZIHITLERFASCISTNAZI one...and despite the best efforts of some folks here to deny it, the public has seen what that kind of rhetoric leads to.

And they don't like it.

All Trump has to do tomorrow night is channel Ronald Reagan with lots of Shining City On The Hill Stuff. Let the democrats run their hilariously campy negative campaign.

Here's what his running mate, J.D. Vance, said before Trump announced he was running: “I think Trump is going to run again in 2024. I think that what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people.’”

Exactly. That's exactly the point.

Project 2025 is useless and unnecessary for making this point. Heck, Trump already passed an executive order implementing the so-called "Schedule F" effort to try to do this in his last term. You don't need a Heritage book to make the point that he wants to do this. He says he wants to do this!

This is not a disputed point. It's not a secret. Trump's campaign has confirmed they want to do this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trum...

The only reason to try to tie Trump to Project 2025 is that Project 2025 includes a lot of crap that Trump isn't openly admitting and proclaiming he's going to do - stuff that Democrats would love to convince voters he's going to do anyway. Like cutting Social Security and Medicare, or implementing a federal abortion ban, or criminalizing pornography. Okay, maybe the Democrats aren't focusing on that last part.

But the usefulness of Project 2025 is an effort to tie Trump to policies that used to be part of mainstream GOP platforms, but that Trump isn't openly and proudly embracing. If they can pull it off, it lets them run their greatest hits from past campaigns.

I don't think they can pull it off.

I think that Democrats are trying to ignore the fact that Trump's takeover of the GOP represents a real political realignment of the major parties, akin to what happened on racial matters in the 1960's and what happened on economic and regulatory policies with the Reagan Revolution. Prior to the 1960's realignment, Republicans and Democrats weren't sorted on racial matters (southern Democrats were among the most virulent supporters of segregationist measures); prior to the Reagan Revolution, there were still plenty of Republicans in favor of governmental spending and regulation in a lot of contexts (Republicans were instrumental in passing the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Acts).

If you went to the voters and tried to pitch Republicans as the party of minority rights in 1978 because the party of Lincoln used to be in that position, it would fail - the Civil Rights Act led to a radical realignment of the parties on those lines, and voters very much knew that the brand had changed. If you tried to pitch Republicans as a party that supported business regulation in 1982, simply because Republicans overwhelmingly voted for the Clean Air and Clean Water Act measures a decade earlier, you would have been laughed out of the room - Reagan had changed the party.

The same thing is happening here. Trump has effected a radical realignment of the GOP away from the Bush, Romney/Ryan, and (dare I say it) Reagan form of conservatism. It is now fully a right-wing populist party, rejecting the old Reagan-Thatcherite free market attitudes towards free trade, industrial policy, and government entitlement programs. Those days are gone, and pointing to Project 2025 as a way to pretend that they're not is going to be a fruitless effort.

But the usefulness of Project 2025 is an effort to tie Trump to policies that used to be part of mainstream GOP platforms, but that Trump isn't openly and proudly embracing. If they can pull it off, it lets them run their greatest hits from past campaigns.

I don't think they can pull it off.

------------------------

Because too much attention is being fixated on the presumed power and influence of a single person.

1) Trump 1.0 had the highest churn of top staff of any Administration
2) Trump praised every one of his choices as the best...
3) ...until they were denigrated as losers after qitting or getting fired (dude... YOU hired them...)
4) Ergo, Trump cannot argue he hires the best and brightest - just listen to him describe his own choices
5) Trump Administration 2.0 will have HIGHER churn if he destroys civil service protections
6) Ergo Trump and his direct appointees will be doing MORE hiring than in the past
7) More hiring means MORE GARBAGE IN -- into positions of power
8) Trump has the attention span of a gnat - easily distracted / manipulated by anything that flatters him or threatens him
9) An entire cabinet chosen from people willing to work for Trump will be well versed in psychologically manipulating someone of Trump's temperment
10) Ergo, it will be child's play for Administration officials to play caroms off Trump's combination of incompetence and psychopathy to initiate actions far afield from whatever Trump claims to support
11) Ergo, more corrupt officials expert in distracting their boss with fewer civil service protections and decimated Constitutional protections against a criminal President means MORE GARBAGE OUT of government to harm Americans -- their financial safety, their health, their civil rights, their childrens' future in a world where America cedes entire countries to Russian aggression.

Americans should stop focusing on the buffoon at the top of the ticket and PAY ATTENTION TO THE ENTIRE CHESS BOARD and all the players. Even if Trump wins re-election, takes office and immediately degenerates into a golf-playing vegetable, the ethical and moral flotsam and jetsam that follows him into office will be sufficient to destroy nearly one hundred years of progress in creating a better balance between the powers of giant corporations and the uber wealthy and individual Americans.


WTH

"Well, the leader of the GOP is frantically trying to distance himself from P2025, despite the fact that well over 100 of his former staff were involved in it.

That alone tells me it would be an effective message. Sure, you need a few clubs in your bag, but this is definitely one of them."

And it isn't like a person cannot find a dozen Trump quotes about dismantling the deep state or specific sections of government. Right there Trump has made it clear over the years he is for drastically overhauling government, so it would be easy to hang Project 2025 over his neck. It echos true to Trumps stated desires.

So how do YOU see the parties realigning? There were obvious shifts in the Southern States after the CRA passed. Do you project something similar here?

It seems to me this may only reinforce the rural/urban divide. Trumpism seems to be OK with racism, so I don't think he'll lose the South. May even gain a bit since he's more open about it than prior candidates.

Effectively killing a bipartisan bill that would have addressed the border problem. - Bansky

-------------------

Offered only after a 3.5 year free for all and then only because it was hurting biden in an election year.

Now suddenly Biden reveals he has been a Border hawk all along, only to be thwarted at every corner, courageous Biden tries again and again to stop the flow but republicans would have none of it.

It's weak. No one's gonna buy it, and you shouldn't be selling it.

BTW, if passed, do you think Biden would have enforced it?

Offered only after a 3.5 year free for all and then only because it was hurting biden in an election year.

No. Offered because the Republican Senate tied the border deal to aid for Ukraine. Y'all asked for it then reneged.

Trumpism seems to be OK with racism - 1pg

--------------

I sure don't get that vibe... Polls are showing support flowing towards Trump from those demographics...

"While tying Trump and Vance to Project 2025 may not be the best approach against them, it's still one that shouldn't be abandoned."

In all politics is local........

Here in Nevada, one of the biggest issues statewide is Yucca Mountain nuclear waste storage site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain_nucle...

It is supposed to be the repository for all long term nuclear waste in the U.S. Obviously all of the utilities around the country want it because right now they are storing waste onsite at nuclear reactors. Here is Nevada though it is extremely unpopular. Unsurprisingly, people don't like having highly radioactive nuclear waste buried in their back yard (not to mention shipments of it regularly travelling down their highways). So when Harry Reid was alive and still a Senator, he got funding killed for the Repository.

Every Republican Senate candidate from Nevada for the last 15 years has gotten themselves in trouble over it. The candidates take big donations from energy companies so they come out in favor of Yucca. They talk about all of the jobs it will create, etc. Then there is huge public backlash against the candidates. The Republican Senate candidate then suddenly changes their tune and is somewhat against Yucca but it is too late. It is probably the #1 reason a Republican has not won a Senate seat in Nevada the past few elections. That has played out in the upcoming Nevada Senate race as well. The Republican gave a nice speech about bringing jobs to Nevada by restarting Yucca. He got hammered for it and has since changed his tune and come out against it.

Anyway, Donald Trump once came out in support of restarting Yucca. Then when he realized he needed to win Nevada, he came out against it. But then later he was quoted speaking to energy company CEOs about restarting it. It is the typical Trump two step, he will tell whomever he is talking to whatever they want to hear despite telling someone else the opposite just a while ago.

So is Trump for or against restarting Yucca? Who knows. Probably depends on who is energy secretary is and who he talked to most recently.

But guess who is for restarting Yucca? Yep. Project 2025 contains a section about restarting it.

If Biden was smart, he would be blanketing the Nevada airwaves with ads linking Trump to Project 2025 and wanting to restart Yucca Mountain. It is a winning issue in Nevada. It is deeply unpopular and a high priority for most voters.

Flowing? Don't think so. He is getting some support, but it's relatively small.

https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/202...

Most of them know he hates them, so they aren't going to support the convict. But there are some die-hard conservatives in the black and hispanic communities that can't see themselves voting for a Dem. Mostly on cultural issues (like LGBTQ rights, etc). So he'll have those voters.

"Most of them know he hates them, so they aren't going to support the convict."


"Most of them" might take a different view of criminal justice and "convict" than white 401K Liberals do.

"Most of them" know the score about who Trump is - -

But "some of them" are starting to wonder why after 50 years their lot in life still sucks. While others who aren't white ascend.

"some of them" don't want to be taken for granted. "some of them" are starting to have property. homes, or a small business.

"some of them" won't genuflect for Club 401K Whole Foods White Professional Smugs any longer.

If Biden was smart, he would be blanketing the Nevada airwaves with ads linking Trump to Project 2025 and wanting to restart Yucca Mountain. It is a winning issue in Nevada. It is deeply unpopular and a high priority for most voters.

Why bother with the middle thing? As you point out, Trump has stated he wants to restart Yucca Mountain. Why not just run ads saying that Trump wants to restart Yucca Mountain?

Why dilute your message with the intermediary, having to educate voters about what Project 2025 says and then having to try to convince them that Trump supports things just because they're in Project 2025? Why not just run a clean ad that says Trump supports restarting Yucca Mountain, if he's actually said that in the past?

Most of them know he hates them, so they aren't going to support the convict. But there are some die-hard conservatives in the black and hispanic communities that can't see themselves voting for a Dem.

I don't know what the percentages are, but it's common knowledge in Los Angeles, and I would imagine in other regions, that there is a substantial degree of racist animosity between black and latino communities. As such, some percentage of the black community feel impacted by the influx of latino immigrants.

Many latino citizens have adopted the FYIGM mindset, and as such, want to restrict the competition they perceive coming from all immigrants.

Again, it's all exacerbated by the overall income inequality that exists in the US.

Replying to myself, apparently MAGA isn't happy with the VP choice, or more precisely, his wife. They fear he won't "defend white identity".

But they're not racist...

Agreed. Run a simple, clean ad. Don't risk confusing the low information voter. Which is most of them, sadly.

Replying to myself, apparently MAGA isn't happy with the VP choice, or more precisely, his wife. They fear he won't "defend white identity".

But they're not racist...
****

And you are represented by SOLE voices from BLM and Occupy And Free Palestine too.

Fertilizer sale at your place?

...I would imagine in other regions, that there is a substantial degree of racist animosity between black and latino communities.

In Phoenix that used to be the case. Not sure now. But 30 years ago the primary gang-on-gang violence was black gangs vs latino gangs. The white gangs were much less prevalent.

I read an article at the time that it was about competition for resources in poorer neighborhoods where the minority gangs lived (south Phoenix). South Mountain High School -at that time- was the locus of such gang activity, and was predominantly black and latino. I don't hear much about that now, so perhaps they've cleaned up most of it.

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