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The local news, tonight, ran a piece on businesses already running out of pennies. Businesses are taking losses because they need to round the total down to the nearest nickle. Folks must be hoarding them.

Coincidentally, I stopped at a Subway for a sandwich a few days ago. The total came to $8.47. I had $8 in fives and singles. Dug around in my coin pouch and told the clerk I would need to give her a $20, as I didn't have 47 cents, only a flock of pennies. She said "I'll take seven pennies". I didn't ask, but maybe they were running short too.

Of course, "Plan Steve" is dead simple, and eliminates the entire problem: have registers and POS systems round to one decimal point, instead of two. In the days of mechanical registers, this would be a big program, almost as bad as when the UK switched to a decimal currency system, when the gears in registers had to be changed.. But these days, what would it take? A few keystrokes on the POS server?

Steve

Back in 1972, we traveled to Italy. While it seemed customary to round prices up relatively meaningless amounts (back then, there were a ghastly number of Italian Lira to the US buck). At the end of a transaction, they would give us trivial gifts - a piece of hard candy, a pencil, a low denomination postage stamp and so on. What nice people to behave this way. I'm not sure when, but afterwards I found out that it was because of a shortage of change and this was compensation for the overcharge of rounding off.

That said, this week for the first time in a really long time, I had two merchants (an Italian/Mexican pizzeria and a Thai restaurant) shortchange me. The first blamed it on not being familiar with their own menu, the second on poor hearing (but the second, after putting an extra drink on my bill - a $2.50 bottle of water - gave back $3 and asked if that was OK.

One of my personal peeves is the growing practice of "suggesting" amounts for restaurant tips on screens and on bills. They are now politely starting at 18% or 20% and then a couple of additional notches (say 25% and 30%). OK, that's not the problem (though its annoying), it comes from the growing number of them who are including sales tax (nearly 9% in NYC) in the total before applying the chosen percentage. In my opinion, a tip should be calculated on the service, not the tax. In my case, (because I am of a generation who can multiply without using a calculator) doing this reduces the percentage of the tip, rather than increases it as I object to being taken for a fool.

I am now seeing tip cups on every horizontal surface - bakery counters, supermarket checkout lines, fast food checkouts and so on. The US fixation on tipping is a legacy of when restaurant workers made almost nothing in wages. To be honest, as minimum wages rise enough to guaranty a "living wage", I am less inclined to give a significant tip on a meal whose price has increased to accommodate that increased cost of paying more to the server (unless they offer additional benefit over and above doing their job well - or otherwise. The Europeans, Australians, Chinese et al have it right - the cost of a meal listed on a menu includes any "service charges" and the total is, well, the total paid. It is up to the restauranteur to pay and train his employees well enough that customers continue to return and, by law, their menus should be posted next to their door or on their window where potential customers can see them (next to their Health Department sanitary rating). It's high time that the US joins the rest of the developed world.

Jeff

I am now seeing tip cups on every horizontal surface - bakery counters, supermarket checkout lines, fast food checkouts and so on. The US fixation on tipping is a legacy of when restaurant workers made almost nothing in wages.

I see this continuing given the lack of federal tax on tips. We too have noted the irritating items you list, and tend to reduce tips as a result. If I go up to a counter to grab a meal, no tips from me. I used to get insanely large tips when I waitressed, because I gave insanely great service. These days, it seems as though you are expected to tip because they breathe.

We were in Italy in '75, and got the same bizarre things for change, particularly when going through tolls. We were told it was because the Italian Gov't was so broke that the Lira was pretty worthless, making things like stamps, or even grocery store savings tokens or small hard candies the preferred choice, not that the gov't gave you a choice!

IP

Back in 1972, we traveled to Italy. While it seemed customary to round prices up relatively meaningless amounts

The USD has depreciated about 90% since 1960. A Dime now, has the buying power of 1 cent then, so rounding to one decimal point now, is no more of a "ripoff" than rounding to two decimal places then. The full "Plan Steve" would also eliminate the nickle, and, the quarter, because, without pennies and nickles, you can't make change for a quarter. The coin units going forward would be the Dime, described as a "tenth of a dollar" vs "ten cents", then a half dollar, the size of a nickle, but gold, and the gold dollar coin that was produced several years ago. In the late 90s, the vending machines in the lunch room at the Office Depot warehouse I worked in took Susan Bs. Put a $5 or $10 bill in the bill changer in that lunch room, and you got Susan Bs. I would presume the vending machine company choose to create a Susan B ecosystem in that lunch room due to coins performing more reliably in the vending machines, than dollars. Besides, due to their greater weight, you can count a bucket of coins by weight, vs a less reliable dollar bill counter.

I am now seeing tip cups on every horizontal surface - bakery counters, supermarket checkout lines, fast food checkouts and so on.

One of the local Burger Kings has had a tip bucket on the counter. I was using cash at the Subway, because their credit card terminal offers several levels of tip, along with no tip. The Gilmore Museum's cafe has the same sort of credit card terminal.

Steve

What's the point of hoarding pennies? They aren't even copper anymore.

Wendy

I see this continuing given the lack of federal tax on tips.

Recall a reg that went into effect in, iirc, 2020, allows the "JC" to pool the tip money, and skim some off to pay the cooks and other back room staff, rather than paying those people a competitive wage out of the "JC's" pocket. The subsequent administration rolled that reg back, but I would expect it to return. Hence, the incentive to have servers work for tips, so the "JC" receives more subsidy money for his back room payroll.

Press Releases • By Heidi Shierholz • December 22, 2020

Today, the Trump administration finalized a regulation on tips that gives employers of tipped workers a loophole allowing them to capture more than $700 million annually from workers.

https://www.epi.org/press/trump-administration-fin...

Steve...Nomex long johns at the ready

What's the point of hoarding pennies? They aren't even copper anymore.

I'm sure there is a segment of the population that thinks they are being "ripped off" by not receiving their change, to the penny. So, they hoard pennies, so they can pay exact change. There are people who think like that. Remember when the peach colored $10 bills came out? I was hearing conspiracy theories that they were different because the government could refuse to honor them at any time, so people would be "ripped off" by being given these peach colored bills, that the government could disavow.

Steve

Besides, due to their greater weight, you can count a bucket of coins by weight, vs a less reliable dollar bill counter.
____________________________________

Back when I was a kid, there was a chain of restaurants owned by Horne and Hardart known as "Automats". The restaurant had a wall of tiny door separated by category (mains, deserts, etc.). Each had a price in multiples of a nickel. When you dropped the appropriate number of them into a slot, turn a knob and the door would pop open giving you your food. They had cashiers who would change dollars into nickels all day long. They would scoop a handful of them, shake their hand, maybe throw one back and invariably give you the proper number.

Years later, when I was in college, the photocopier in the library took nickels. I had a "bright idea" and went to the school cafeteria (expecting an argument from the cashiers about changing $5 into nickels), The cashier, without blinking, started throwing handfuls of the coin into a paper bag with an awesome display of nonchalance. I asked her if she had ever worked in an Automat (the chain had closed years earlier) to which she answered "How did you know?".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_%26_Hardart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrbyqUOObdU

Jeff

Back when I was a kid, there was a chain of restaurants owned by Horne and Hardart known as "Automats".

Been there done that. When I was young and impressionable, there was a Horne and Hardart spoon in the silverware drawer at home. Inquiring how that spoon had traveled from NYC to Kalamazoo, I learned my mom had stolen it from the Automat when my dad took her to NYC, sometime in the early 50s. Way to be a good role model mom!

Collection of Automat clips from "That Touch Of Mink", 1962.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTqjO-dHTmE

Steve...has also seen how Vegas casinos count the coins from slot machines by weighing the buckets.

On the late local news tonight: Micky D's will set it's POS systems to automatically round to the nearest nickle.

Steve

In the days of mechanical registers, this would be a big program,

Nah. Piece of duct tape over the final digit in the read out window would have done it. The worst the business would have suffered would have been 9¢. Average would have been a nickel on a basket of goods; raise prices a penny here or there and it’s covered.

Saw the same kind of thing when gas prices went higher than the pumps would allow. They started selling “half gallons” so the pump could register the price correctly.

I am now seeing tip cups on every horizontal surface

It’s amusing, if tragically so, that “tin cups” used to signify that a person was begging in the street, wishing for any small gesture that would produce a clinking sound so the person might not starve for another day. Now we have employees begging from behind the counter, hoping for the good graces of patrons to eke out a few extra shekels for their effort.

Wait staff wages vary depending on the state.
https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped

In my state of New Mexico the minimum wage for wait staff is $2.13/hour. If the wait staff does not make enough tips to make an $5.37/hour to meet the federal wage of $7.50/hour; the employer must make up the balance.
IMO $7.50 an hour is obscene. I always tip 20%. More if the service is excellent. YMMV

real query :
are there middlemen getting a cut of screen tip payments ? (flat fee, or %)
maybe not the franchise, but possibly software vendor as a toll for the tipping feature.
what about credit cards, as per total vendor charge fee?

and in the golden age of grift, i would not put it above any middlemen creating their own tax-free accounting bucket. frankly, rather quaint in a kleptocracy.

The minimum wage for tipped restaurant workers in New York City is $16.50 per hour, which is a combined rate of a minimum cash wage of $11.00 per hour and a tip credit of up to $5.50 per hour. If an employee's tips plus the cash wage do not equal at least $16.50 per hour, the employer must make up the difference. It applies to both large and small employers in NYC, Long Island, and Westchester County.

Assembly Member Zohran Mamdani, a Democratic socialist from Queens who is running for mayor, wants to raise New York City’s minimum wage to $30 an hour by 2030.

He contends that the city needs to be a leader and set a minimum wage that better meets New Yorkers’ needs as the cost of living explodes, straining wallets and driving many from their homes and the city itself.

At what point do tips become superfluous if the higher wages are already buried in the price of food in restaurants and other services?

Jeff

are there middlemen getting a cut of screen tip payments ? (flat fee, or %)

I expect to see a return of the reg first enacted in 2020, that allows the "JC" to pool tips the servers earn, and use part of the tip money to cover at least part of the pay of cooks and other back room staff, rather than pay them a competitive wage out of his own pocket.

Steve

Minimum wage in NYC should already be $30/hr. Can you imagine living there on about
$30k a year?

So, here's the macro thing:

If you made $30 an hour in NYC and lived in Ashville N.C. (picked at random), then you'd be (relatively) stellar. But if you did the same in NYC and so did everyone else, you still couldn't afford to go to a Broadway show or eat at a restaurant because all the prices would tend to increase to cover the business's labor overhead.

While there are neighborhoods in NYC where every occupant is aa millionaire (and the local cost of living reflects that), there are large swaths of the city where things are affordable.

That said:
2025 US poverty thresholds
One person: $15,650
Two people: $21,150
Three people: $26,650
Four people: $32,150

So you are asking if it is easy for a family of three at the poverty level to live in NYC (presumably without any form of public assistance) and the answer is that it is tough - but then it would be tough anywhere in the US for a person living in/or near the poverty level to live at a "middle class" standard of living.

We live in a unique era in the US. Our poor tend to have a far better standard of living than the poor in most of the world's other countries. Our poor have TV's, food assistance, medical assistance, internet connections, free decent education and frequently a car.

On the other hand, the middle class in those countries can generally afford servants (which are paid "working class wages".

NYC's infrastructure is far more expensive than that of most cities. It has an extensive mass-transit system, underground sewer system, fresh water piped from mountain stream-fed reservoirs hundreds of miles to the north, thousands of miles of paved roads, bridges, an army of policemen, firemen, sanitation workers and so on. This requires substantial tax revenue which, among other costs, raises the cost of rent. So, yes, NYC is expensive. When I sold my business 14 years ago, no employee of mine made less than $15 an hour (which, frankly, caused me to replace some of the ones lowest on the totem pole, who I deemed wee not suitable for reassignment to more useful positions, with cheaper technology-based alternatives - with the rationalization that I was running a profit-oriented business, not a charity).

So, yes, living in NYC has trade-offs - it tends to be more expensive than elsewhere in the US, but compensates with better services.

Jeff

Mickey D's announced rounding to the nearest nickle.

The mob is outraged. Yup. I saw that coming. "Outraged" over a couple of cents, when, they will probably benefit from the rounding as often as it costs them more. And, what is 1 cent now anyway?

McDonald’s customers angry as fast food chain confirms new coin policy after Trump penny decision

McDonald’s change update

Menu prices will stay the same, but the entire order total will be rounded depending on the change. The sign on Reddit explained how the rounding will work:

If the order price ends in 1 or 2 cents, it will be rounded down to 0 cents.
If the order price ends in 3 or 4 cents, it will be rounded up to 5 cents.
If the order price ends in 5 or 0 cents, exact change will be given.
If the order price ends in 6 or 7 cents, it will be rounded down to 5 cents.
If the order price ends in 8 or 9 cents, it will be rounded up to 10 cents.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/mcdonald-s-cu...

I remember when the UK dropped the Farthing, because it was useless.

Steve....after 60 years of inflation, dimes are the new pennies

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