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Author: tedthedog 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 201 
Subject: ex-US Defense Contractors
Date: 04/06/2025 10:57 AM
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No. of Recommendations: 5
I posted the following as part of a comment on another board, it seems more appropriate on this board.

The investing thesis is that given U.S. actions and policy changes, there will be increased defense spending in the EU and NATO/exU.S. countries. The idea of investing in EU and NATO/exU.S. defense contractors, given these crazy times, doesn't at first thought raise any red flags for me (who knows, it might later). Also, everyone is different.

I've narrowed my list of ex-U.S. defense contractors, available via ADR, to the following for further analysis.

BAE Systems plc BAESY (England)
Thales.S.A THLLY (France)
Leonardo S.p.a. FINMY (Italy)

BAESY is the most prominent, but apparently has large U.S. contracts so that complicates things, while THLLY and FINMY are apparently much less exposed to U.S. contracting. I say "apparently" because I never trust chatGPT until I manually verify what it says with a reference. I don't know if this direction will pan out, but the thesis is that defense contracting within EU and NATO/ex-US using non-U.S. companies will increase rather sharply. I've since searched a bit more, and added a couple more candidates.

Someone asked "Why restrict to ADRs?" and my answer was that I simply haven't used overseas brokers before, so am taking it one step at at a time.
I also found out the following about Schwab (cut and pasted from their page):


The Schwab Global Account provides real-time quotes during foreign market hours and multi-currency statement reporting, offering better insights into international investments.
Schwab One lacks these features, as it primarily operates in U.S. dollars.
No Account Minimums or Maintenance Fees:
There are no minimums or maintenance fees for the Schwab Global Account, making it accessible to a wide range of investors.
Suitability
The Schwab Global Account is ideal for investors who prefer independent online trading and want direct exposure to foreign markets in local currencies.
(tedthedog note: just the following twelve markets)
Australia (Australian Dollar)
Belgium (Euro)
Canada (Canadian Dollar)
Finland (Euro)
France (Euro)
Germany (Euro)
Hong Kong (Hong Kong Dollar)
Italy (Euro)
Japan (Japanese Yen)
Netherlands (Euro)
Norway (Norwegian Krone)
United Kingdom (British Pound).
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Author: ajm101   😊 😞
Number: of 201 
Subject: Re: ex-US Defense Contractors
Date: 04/06/2025 2:40 PM
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No. of Recommendations: 5
I think this is a regrettable but productive exercise for investing.

Let me add some thoughts:

- you should consider the nature of the conflict. Much of this is no longer a hot war. Since the adversary is a Russian state that is backed by China to indirectly establish international hegemony by weaking its rivals, and Russia is 1-3 years away from rebuilding its military to being a EU threat, they will continue attacking the foundations of EU states like the various right wing parties.

As an investment angle, I'd look investment impact on further EU social media controls. Possibly information security, or domestic social media

- in addition to political destabilization, Russia is a global swing supplier of natural gas and petroleum. They will use guerrilla attacks against pipeline infrastructure and their own hydrocarbon resources as bribes and influence.

I'd expect further action on grid resilience, energy independence, and domestic Baltic and North sea producers.

- I would expect different degrees of specialization and motivation by member state. I think the Baltic states will be more motivated from prior history, for example. UK involvement is complicated by recovery from Brexit and a prior domestic political attack, as are Germany, France, and Italy to different degrees.

There is greater risk but greater motivation in Poland, Finland, Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. https://stockviz.com/en/ranking-of-poland-stocks-i... is one example of companies that might be worth further interest rather than the large caps.

- The landscape of open conflict is different. Drones are a critical offensive and defensive capability. I believe space will become a wasteland in the next decade - any major conflict will result in anti-satellite warfare and will litter stable orbits with with shrapnel travelling at tens of thousands of mph. Drone based recon can be deployed more quickly on fronts and replenished more quickly.

Look at the drone supply chain and the types of drones, what types of countermeasures are necessary. The same would apply to smart munitions or missiles.

- Regardless of other outcomes, more personnel require more equipment like uniforms, body armor, radios, and so on.


So, to summarize some quick thoughts, don't overlook smaller defense companies particularly in eastern Europe. This is existential for them. Look at the nature of the conflict as bullets are becoming a smaller part of war fighting. That will may include increased emphasis on managing information warfare, managing economic warfare, and defensive and offensive drones.

I am just a person on the internet with an opinion, though.
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Author: hummingbird   😊 😞
Number: of 201 
Subject: Re: ex-US Defense Contractors
Date: 04/06/2025 7:56 PM
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No. of Recommendations: 1

good thoughts, I will reread a few times..
what stood out to me was your point on drones.. I think this will be v critical...
Ukraine has shown how to use cheap, "disposable" very effectively, to the point that US military are studying UKraine tactics.....prior was expensive predator drones in US arsenal...now to try and identify a business... iRobot used to be one, they invented the cave entry vehicle for mid east terrorist war..and turned it into a roomba on the commercial market.... I owned their stock for a while, and still have my roomba and scooba..
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Author: SteadyAim   😊 😞
Number: of 201 
Subject: Re: ex-US Defense Contractors
Date: 04/07/2025 3:35 AM
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No. of Recommendations: 2
In case it's of any interest, a post on BlueSky with a screenshot of some defence names:
https://bsky.app/profile/brokenbanker.bsky.social/...

SA
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Author: tedthedog 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 201 
Subject: Re: ex-US Defense Contractors
Date: 04/07/2025 3:11 PM
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Thank you for the suggestions, I agree with a lot of them.

The present hot war may (hopefully) be cooling down. But the U.S. is retreating from its historical role and Russia seems willing to roll tanks and troops into countries they want to dominate. So EU/NATOexUS countries are on their own.

I've skimmed many euro defense companies so far.

CONCLUSION:
Most have had huge share price run-ups since 2024 or even since early 2025 (like 2x), so am pretty late to that party.
I don't see many that have revenue supporting that increase, but conceivably some contracts aren't reported as revenue?
Lots of P/E's sky high.
Would take a lot more digging to get a sense of what's really going on with them.

It might well be worth looking at smaller firms, but they are harder to get a handle on.
Also, I don't know how to invest directly in Polish or other non-US firms, I don't know the mechanics of investing directly in ex-US companies (never done it, have done ADRs), don't know how year-end results are reported (would my accountant know what to do?), etc So there'd be a steep learning curve.


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