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Author: Umm 🐝 HONORARY
SHREWD
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Number: of 48447 
Subject: Liz Cheney
Date: 12/19/2023 12:24 AM
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No. of Recommendations: 9
Many months ago, I mentioned that in the Democrats wanted to do well in the 2024 elections, they should have abortion ballot initiatives in every swing state. That was very spot on because abortion ballot initiatives have been a huge boon for Democrats at the ballot box. Turnout has been great for democrats whenever abortion is on the ballot. Everywhere. Even deep red states.

My next mention is that if moderates and independents (and non-nutty conservatives) want to see Trump lose in 2024, they need to convince Liz Cheney to run as an independent in the general election. Even going as far as bankrolling her.

She can't win. That isn't the point.

However what she can do is provide (real) conservatives who actually value their country over their political party (and cult) a choice. It will give them someone to vote for.

Right now, the binary nature of general elections means that diehard Republicans who aren't members of the Trump cult have 3 bad options on what to do in the general election:
1. Hold their nose and vote for Trump. Somehow hoping if he wins he won't destroy the country and Constitution.
2. Don't vote for a candidate in the general election.
3. Hold their nose and vote for Biden.

There are many Republicans who don't like Trump but simply cannot vote for a Democrat. Some will not vote, others will hold their nose and vote for Trump and pray.

Having Liz Cheney run as an independent gives them someone to vote for. They know she will not win, but they can at least put country above cult.

Note, having Liz Cheney run as an independent would help Democrats in the presidential race, but it would probably hurt them in down ballot races. It probably increases conservative turnout. Many of those diehard Republicans who don't like Trump and would chose not to vote in the presidential race would just not show up and vote at all.

In fact, if Mitch McConnell hadn't gotten so feeble recently, I would expect him behind the scenes to quietly support Liz Cheney running as an independent. Pushing wealthy donors to support her because it would help Republican turnout which would help him capture the Senate and retain the House. It would totally cost Republicans the presidency, but I think most sane Republicans who love their country would want that anyway if Trump in on the ballot.
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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48447 
Subject: Re: Liz Cheney
Date: 12/19/2023 1:34 AM
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I just read that Republicans are desperate to keep abortion off the ballots. They (rightly) fear that will make a lot of people show up whom are not likely to vote for them.

Dems need to ramp-up that issue to enhance turn-out.
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Author: sano 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48447 
Subject: Re: Liz Cheney
Date: 12/19/2023 9:43 AM
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No. of Recommendations: 6
Many months ago, I mentioned that in the Democrats wanted to do well in the 2024 elections, they should have abortion ballot initiatives in every swing state. That was very spot on because abortion ballot initiatives have been a huge boon for Democrats at the ballot box. Turnout has been great for democrats whenever abortion is on the ballot. Everywhere. Even deep red states

Recognizing that initiatives are not in the MAGA's anti-democracy interests, the MAGAs are working on several fronts to prevent abortion referendums from even being on ballots.

Conservatives move to keep abortion off the 2024 ballot

“We don’t believe those rights should be subjected to majority vote.”


https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/18/first-rul...

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Author: FlyingCircus   😊 😞
Number: of 48447 
Subject: Re: Liz Cheney
Date: 12/19/2023 9:29 PM
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No. of Recommendations: 6
Any viable independent has a good chance of splitting the eventual anti-Orange vote and thereby handing him the general. If Liz were to run, hopefully she would do it as a Pub to cause a real fight inside the Party. If Orange then still came out of the convention as the nominee, I venture many would vote against him in the General anyway in the "hold-nose-push-Biden" choice. Rationals, like me.

The problem is the progressives have simply become ridiculous, so far out in space that they can't even get behind Biden for a lousy year, pounding the table with the recent economic rebounds we're seeing. By complaining about JB almost as much as the Pubs do they're committing seppuku in the name of purity of thought. If they don't get in line very soon they're going to help Orange take it back. Losing sight of the very worst outcome to score a few more points.
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