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About damn time.

https://punchbowl.news/article/mayorkas-impeachmen...

“Our investigation made clear that this crisis finds its foundation in Secretary Mayorkas’ decision-making and refusal to enforce the laws passed by Congress, and that his failure to fulfill his oath of office demands accountability,” Green told us in a statement. “The bipartisan House vote in November to refer articles of impeachment to my Committee only served to highlight the importance of our taking up the impeachment process – which is what we will begin doing next Wednesday.”

Hearing start soon.

They're to begin hearings. It is by no means assured that they will actually impeach him. Particularly since an accusation of maladministration, even if proven up, is not the same thing as a "high crime and misdemeanor" - which may make it difficult to get unanimity from the GOP to vote to impeach a cabinet official.

That won't stop them from calling a vote on it - the whole point is to force vulnerable House Democrats to vote in favor of keeping Mayorkas in office so that they can be blasted in the upcoming elections, and to keep the border on the front burner. But there's a very good chance that any impeachment vote will fail.

They're to begin hearings. It is by no means assured that they will actually impeach him. Particularly since an accusation of maladministration, even if proven up, is not the same thing as a "high crime and misdemeanor" - which may make it difficult to get unanimity from the GOP to vote to impeach a cabinet official.

Sure about that? Mayorkas can be impeached merely for suggesting “the border is secure” several times. If they’re talking misappropriation of taxpayer dollars they may have something else.

At any rate there will be no shortage of GOP votes. They will also have some border state democrats.

Sure about that? Mayorkas can be impeached merely for suggesting “the border is secure” several times.

How is that a "high crime or misdemeanor"?

At any rate there will be no shortage of GOP votes. They will also have some border state democrats.

The GOP only has a two-vote majority for the rest of the term. They will have "no shortage" of GOP votes, but they need to get virtually all of them to impeach. At least a handful will likely vote against it, because there simply is no hint of criminality on Mayorkas' part.

Every cabinet official exercises the discretion afforded by their office in terms of priorities and policies in the manner directed by the President, not Congress. Every Congress has disagreements with the Executive all the time in how the Executive is allocating resources and setting priorities in the various departments. That's why impeachment isn't available for claims of maladministration, claims that the official is doing a terrible job (as opposed to actual criminality). The President gets to decide, through his cabinet officials, how the laws will be executed - and if Congress doesn't like it, the Constitution doesn't provide for them to just start throwing out cabinet officials. There will be a number of Republicans who will have concerns about whether Mayorkas has done anything that is impeachable, no matter how bad they think the Administration is mishandling border policy.

How is that a "high crime or misdemeanor"?

He’s clearly lying to Congress. Once upon a time that was a crime. However, the easy defense here is “what does ‘secure’ mean” which is what any lawyer would say.

I merely bring this up to show that Mayorkas is the lowest of the low hanging fruit that is the Biden administration when it comes to the impeachment process.


The GOP only has a two-vote majority for the rest of the term. They will have "no shortage" of GOP votes, but they need to get virtually all of them to impeach. At least a handful will likely vote against it, because there simply is no hint of criminality on Mayorkas' part.

Sure about that? Even the biggest RINOs in the party don’t like the guy.

Every cabinet official exercises the discretion afforded by their office in terms of priorities and policies in the manner directed by the President,

…which is why all of this is building toward the eventual impeachment hearings of Joe Biden.

He’s clearly lying to Congress.

It's an opinion, not a lie. You'd never get a perjury charge on that. It's not a factual question. For nearly ever border in every country for all time, there are always people and things that cross illegally. It's not like illegal imports of contraband (like drugs) is unique to the present day. And while there is undoubtedly a record number of people crossing the border these days, nearly all that increase are folks who are crossing and getting processed by the Border Patrol. The GOP is deeply unhappy about what happens to those people after they are apprehended by Border Patrol, but that doesn't make it factually false (rather than a difference of opinion) whether those levels of apprehensions mean the border is secure or not. It doesn't mean that an Administration official has to agree with their characterization of whether the department is doing a good or bad job running their portfolio.

Sure about that? Even the biggest RINOs in the party don’t like the guy.

So what? Most members of the opposition party won't like the cabinet officials of the current President, particularly those in positions where the Administration's policy clashes with the opposition party's. Few in the Democratic party were fans of Betsy De Vos, for example, but that's a far cry from casting a vote that she's committed a High Crime or Misdemeanor.

Only one cabinet official in history has ever been impeached - and that was 150 years ago, on claims that he was using public funds for personal expenses. No cabinet official has ever been impeached because the opposing party "didn't like the guy."

It's an opinion, not a lie.

Whether it is or not really isn’t relevant; that’ll be up to his defense team. I point this out because there are things the GOP can point to for Impeachment.

So what?

There are many reasons to not like the guy. Him being colossally lousy at his job is one; I’m sure there are others.

Mayorkas will never be removed from office. No democrat will, not even if there was incontrovertible video evidence of him/her stealing a Kia in downtown D.C. and then using it to ram into a pot shop for a late night fix.

The impeachment hearings are the important part.

The impeachment hearings are the important part. - Dope

----------------

As are the proceedings investigating Biden. Mostly a necessary tactic to gain cooperation on subpoenaed records.

Mayorkas will never be removed from office. No democrat will, not even if there was incontrovertible video evidence of him/her stealing a Kia in downtown D.C. and then using it to ram into a pot shop for a late night fix.

I agree he won't be removed from office. I don't think the GOP has the votes to even impeach him. Again, no cabinet official ever has been removed - and only one has ever been impeached.

The reason why is fairly obvious. Unlike judges or elected officials, cabinet officials can be fired. Any cabinet official who had actually committed any personal misconduct sufficient to actually support a vote for impeachment would certainly be fired/asked to resign by the President. There's little reason to stand by a cabinet official who's demonstrably done something wrong - you can always get a new person who would come in and do the job the exact same way, but without the wrongdoing baggage.

Mayorkas is being subject to this because Republicans in Congress don't like the way he's doing his job and the way he defended the Administration's policies, not because there's any evidence that he's done anything illegal. There's nothing new about that. In fact, I don't think you could find a single Administration in U.S. history where there wasn't some Department that the opposition party thought was being cocked up beyond belief. But that's never resulted in an impeachment proceeding against the official heading that Department, for the obvious reason that: i) that's not a ground for impeachment; and ii) if the official isn't personally committing crimes, the President can (and likely will) just replace him with someone who shares the same approach to running the Department.

As are the proceedings investigating Biden. Mostly a necessary tactic to gain cooperation on subpoenaed records.

Yep. The democrats tried to destroy Trump's Presidency with multiple impeachments based on lies and innuendo in a purely political and bogus process. They tried to hold the first one out of the public eye as much as possible with their Star Chamber like hearings and to this day none of them - not Adam Schiff, not Nancy Pelosi, not any of them - have faced a single consequence for lying to the public all that time.

We warned them about this. Now it's time for payback. And that's all this is.

Game theory dictates that we use every trick in the book until that hopelessly corrupt party reforms itself and starts to deserve something other than 100% contempt.

Mayorkas is being subject to this because Republicans in Congress don't like the way he's doing his job and the way he defended the Administration's policies, not because there's any evidence that he's done anything illegal.

Of course. The entire process is politically motivated. That's the game and these are the rules it shall be played under.

But that's never resulted in an impeachment proceeding against the official heading that Department, for the obvious reason that: i) that's not a ground for impeachment; and ii) if the official isn't personally committing crimes, the President can (and likely will) just replace him with someone who shares the same approach to running the Department.

This is true under the *old* rules, where the Impeachment process was considered a serious matter, as in something you don't do unless absolutely necessary. Kind of like pulling a fire alarm.

But as we've seen: even pulling fire alarms with the direct intent of disrupting Congress and delaying its work isn't a big deal anymore. The Trump Star Chamber and the Ukrainian phone call BS taught us that the democrats view the impeachment process as just another way to do oppo research and occupy news cycles. So that's how this will be used with respect to Mayorkas.

They were warned things would end up this way, but they did it anyway.

The Trump Star Chamber and the Ukrainian phone call BS taught us that the democrats view the impeachment process as just another way to do oppo research and occupy news cycles.

Most Democrats believed that Trump genuinely had broken the law...enough that they could actually get an impeachment vote passed.

The difference here is that there really isn't an argument that Mayorkas has broken the law....just that the GOP really disapproves of the way he's doing his job. So the GOP is probably going to fail to impeach him, on a bipartisan vote.

I suspect that will land differently with their constituents. Sure, you get more media coverage for your hearings if you call them an impeachment hearing, rather than a committee hearing on mismanagement of DHS. But the downside to that is that you raise expectations that you can deliver something while you control the House, rather than add this to the list of things that you failed to do with your majority.

Most Democrats believed that Trump genuinely had broken the law...enough that they could actually get an impeachment vote passed.

Most democrats also believe that Barack Obama's books are accurate representations about his life, that Hillary! Clinton was cheated out of the 2016 election due to Russian interference and that Republicans want their grandmothers to eat dog food.

You don't aim to destroy an entire Presidency...what was the phrase again...right: because you don't like the guy.

And thus we arrive at the rules of today. We didn't make them, but we *will* play by them.

The difference here is that there really isn't an argument that Mayorkas has broken the law....just that the GOP really disapproves of the way he's doing his job. So the GOP is probably going to fail to impeach him, on a bipartisan vote.

You're missing the point. No one cares about the impeachment vote or any trial in the Senate.

Dope1: Mayorkas will never be removed from office. No democrat will, not even if there was incontrovertible video evidence of him/her stealing a Kia in downtown D.C. and then using it to ram into a pot shop for a late night fix.

Jesus, the stupid here lately is astounding.

Here's the list of senate democrats who called for senator Al Franken to resign less than three weeks after a photograph surfaced of him pretending to fondle a sleeping woman surfaced and other women came forward with allegations of sexual misconduct:

Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York
Sen. Mazie Hirono of Hawaii
Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri
Sen. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire
Sen. Kamala Harris of California
Sen. Patty Murray of Washington
Sen. Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin
Sen. Bob Casey of Pennsylvania
Sen. Joe Donnelly of Indiana
Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio
Sen. Debbie Stabenow of Michigan
Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota
Sen. Ed Markey of Massachusetts
Sen. Michael Bennet of Colorado
Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington
Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois
Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont
Sen. Martin Heinrich of New Mexico
Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California
Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon
Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon
...and a dozen more but these are enough to make the point.

And before albaby1 steps is to say "sure, but he was being replaced by a democrat," so what? Given the public attention and outrage from the Me Too Movement there's no way Franken would have survived even with a republican governor naming his replacement. And Franken was a pretty valuable guy in the senate. Besides, Mayorkas would also be replaced by another democrat had he actually done anything impeachable.

Dope1: The impeachment hearings are the important part.

They are laughably useless; their value is only political, not legislative.

If House republicans actually want to strengthen southern border security, their time would be better spend legislating a solution instead of putting on a political circus... but clowns have to clown.


https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/full-lis...

Yes, some things *are* off the charts.

Franken resigned at literally zero cost to the democrats; he wasn't removed by his party, which was...the point.

That difference is too much for your programming to process, ChatNPC. Kindly go pollute another thread.

albaby1: But the downside to that is that you raise expectations that you can deliver something while you control the House, rather than add this to the list of things that you failed to do with your majority.

Hey, the republican led House did pass the 250th Anniversary of the United States Marine Corps Commemorative Coin Act, several stop-gap spending bills, named a couple of clinics, secured the Duck Stamp Modernization Act of 2023, and managed to go without a speaker for three weeks, the longest time the House of Representatives was leaderless since 1962.

Your tax dollars at work with republicans in charge.

Most democrats also believe that Barack Obama's books are accurate representations about his life, that Hillary! Clinton was cheated out of the 2016 election due to Russian interference and that Republicans want their grandmothers to eat dog food.

You misunderstand. I meant most Democratic Congressbeings believed that Trump had genuinely broken the law. Because there existed a colorable argument that his actions actually violated the law, and not just that they didn't like the guy, the Democrats were able to get a majority and actually impeach Trump. Without a similar claim against Mayorkas, the GOP probably isn't going to be able to get the votes to impeach him. They're not playing by the same rules, which is why they're unlikely to be successful.

You're missing the point. No one cares about the impeachment vote or any trial in the Senate.

No one would care about the Senate trial, because the GOP doesn't hold a 2/3 majority in the Senate. Like with Trump and Clinton, it's a fait accompli that the Senate would not vote to convict.

But people do care about the impeachment vote....because if you don't have the votes, then Mayorkas won't be impeached. The GOP will have failed - and failed in a bipartisan vote - to even bring an impeachment charge against him. That's going to be disappointing to the base. It's one thing to fail to get a conviction - it's even worse to try and fail to even get the impeachment out of the House.

You misunderstand. I meant most Democratic Congressbeings believed that Trump had genuinely broken the law.

Which is even worse, as they were saying things in public that they knew not to be true (the dossier was known to be bogus misinformation right from the start, yet the demcorats invoked the We just don't like that guy clause and went ahead anyway).

Because there existed a colorable argument that his actions actually violated the law, and not just that they didn't like the guy, the Democrats were able to get a majority and actually impeach Trump

The entire thing was sourced from the Hillary! campaign and made up. And since. Every. Single. democrat. plus a few RINOs went along with it, they impeached him.
They were *all* playing the game.

They're not playing by the same rules, which is why they're unlikely to be successful.

Again. Beside the point. The point is to engage in the fishing expedition.

But people do care about the impeachment vote....because if you don't have the votes, then Mayorkas won't be impeached. The GOP will have failed - and failed in a bipartisan vote - to even bring an impeachment charge against him. That's going to be disappointing to the base. It's one thing to fail to get a conviction - it's even worse to try and fail to even get the impeachment out of the House.

Which is why it will be made clear to all the members who aren't bright enough to do The Math that a 'no' vote on impeaching Mayorkas means that they will have taken the border off the table for their own elections in the fall of 2024.

That's going to be disappointing to the base. It's one thing to fail to get a conviction - it's even worse to try and fail to even get the impeachment out of the House.

Really? I don't think the majority of the base is paying THAT much attention. They get their 'news' filtered through the right wing media and will likely just be mad that the Republicans were thwarted in their righteous attempt to impeach Mayorkas. It's theater and the details don't matter that much.

To wit...some comments from news articles about Mayorkas on YouTube. It fires up the base! That's what matters.

- He literally has broken every immigration law we have. GOP should've been in this from day 1

- With the severity of what is obviously dereliction, we don't need all these committees and pomp. We need to stop these criminals NOW! Enough with the discussions

- Too much damages has been done by Mayorkas, he must go to jail for the rest of his life.

- Close the border! Get the crime family out of the white house! And put these miserable criminals in prison!

- He is a traitor, get him out of there now !

- It's been too long, time is now! Start the ball rolling, then get Biden and Harris and theadministration,and all involved!

etc, etc, etc.

This is the MAGA base and the GOP knows exactly how to yank their chain and keep them angry and motivated.

Which is even worse, as they were saying things in public that they knew not to be true (the dossier was known to be bogus misinformation right from the start, yet the demcorats invoked the We just don't like that guy clause and went ahead anyway).

I think you're confusing the Ukraine impeachment with the Steele Dossier. The impeachment centered on whether Trump misused his office - specifically by trying to freeze aid funds - in order to get the Ukrainian government to help him politically. The Steele Dossier predated those events by several years.

Which is why it will be made clear to all the members who aren't bright enough to do The Math that a 'no' vote on impeaching Mayorkas means that they will have taken the border off the table for their own elections in the fall of 2024.

So? Many GOP reps are from districts where the border really isn't going to be much an issue in their elections. Others will be perfectly capable of separating the issue of impeachment from criticisms of Biden border policy. And there's more than half a dozen GOP reps that are retiring from public office, who will be very very hard to whip on that vote. The GOP only has a two vote majority.

No democrat will <be impeached/removed from office>, not even if there was incontrovertible video evidence of him/her stealing a Kia in downtown D.C. and then using it to ram into a pot shop for a late night fix.


"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"

..and then there's that Jan6 insurrection and that little rapey thing of your leader your GOP ignores.

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"

..and then there's that Jan6 insurrection and that little rapey thing of your leader your GOP ignores.

No matter how many times you rub the righties noses in their false equivalences, they just blithely go on, finger stuffed in ears.

"I think you're confusing the Ukraine impeachment with the Steele Dossier. "

That is, I believe, an intentional act.

It's standard operating procedure of many right-wing fans of Limbaugh to mix and match perceived wrongs to generate head nodding from a gullible audience.
A right-wing audience predictably concludes that 'them apples' plus 'them oranges' equals "lock her up!"

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