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All In with Chris Hayes @allinwithchris
'What we are seeing is a parallel to the 1930s in Nazi Germany," says Ret. Gen. @mccaffreyr3
on the Trump movement.

'That's 15-25 House members, a couple of Senators, and all those who are Trump MAGA loyalists'it's a major threat to the armed forces of the United States."

https://twitter.com/allinwithchris/status/17071899...

"What we are seeing is a parallel to the 1930s in Nazi Germany." ~Ret. Gen. @mccaffreyr3Jason

Absolutely true. I recently read (and posted here about) an illuminating book entitled, How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them.
It is certainly worth a read for those interested in understanding Fascism. It is a warning.
See if any of this sounds familiar...

In the book Professor Stanley (His parents were also refugees of Nazi Germany.) begins by describing what Fascism is,
"Facism is a cult of the leader, who promises national restoration in the face of supposed humiliation by immigrants,
leftists, liberals, minorities, homosexuals, women, in the face of what the fascist leader says is a takeover of the country's media,
cultural institutions, and schools by these forces. The fascist leader says that only he can solve the problem."

Stanley outlined ten tactics fascists use.
1) The mythic past. The past is painted as a time of greatness.
2) Propaganda. Fascists lie and manipulate language in order to rewrite the shared reality of the population. Fascist propaganda is based around naming 'friends' and 'enemies.'
3) Anti-intellectualism. Fascists attack experts, universities and educational systems because they could potentially teach people to challenge fascist ideas. The fascist leader sets the rules about what is true or false.
4) Unreality. Freedom and political equality require truth. Fascist voices work deliberately to create a state of unreality. Its adherents lose the ability to recognize truth. Reasoned discussion and debate is replaced with conspiracy theories and lies.
5) Hierarchy. Fascists create a hierarchy of human worth. They promote social divisions and harden social rankings over such things as race, religion, and gender.
6) Victim-hood. Once people come to believe that they are higher than another group in the hierarchy, any move toward equality by lower groups is used to stoke feelings of resentment and victim-hood among the dominant population. Equality becomes, not a goal, but a threat.
7) Law and Order. Law and Order politics is used to cast 'them' as dangerous, lawless, criminals and to justify brutal crackdowns on minorities or people who are out of favor. At the same time, however, the fascist leader is not bound by any law.
8) Sexual Anxiety. A fascist hierarchy is rigidly patriarchal and is threatened by gender equity. Hence, they impose strict control and dominance over women. They also promote paranoia about homosexuality.
9) Sodom and Gomorrah. Fascist movements emphasize an urban/rural divide. The cities are portrayed as decadent criminal centers full of enemy 'elites' and immigrants.
10) Work shall make you free. This slogan was written on the gates of Auschwitz. Labor unions are said to be run by communists so unions must be crushed.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it." ~Edmund Burke

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/586030/ho...

1) The mythic past. The past is painted as a time of greatness.

---------------------------

And sometime the present is in fact worse than the past. To think otherwise would require permanent infallibility.

2) Propaganda. Fascists lie and manipulate language in order to rewrite the shared reality of the population. Fascist propaganda is based around naming 'friends' and 'enemies.'

And no need to have party propagandists lie for you when you have a huge right wing mediasphere to do it for you.

And sometime the present is in fact worse than the past. To think otherwise would require permanent infallibility.

And the present is always better than the past for some people, and worse for others. Which is why the fascist framing is described as the "mythic" past, not a genuine comparison of ways the country may have improved or regressed.

It's the conceit of Renaissance Festivals, looking back at times they mythologize rather than evaluate with clear eyes. People enjoy assuming the identity of lords and ladies and knights and minstrels or skilled craftsmen - even though in truth the vast majority would be subsistence farmers living a truncated life of near-starvation and constant sickness and physical pain before dying of (today) preventable illnesses after burying more than a few children.

The same is true with mythologizing the recent past in American culture - typically an idealized vision of the immediate post-WWII boom of the Eisenhower years. The propagandist will paint this as a time of prosperity, security and enjoyment compared to today. But in reality, for most people in America they're far better off today than a random "Golden Age" resident. Most folks in the Eisenhower days didn't live the life of Ward Cleaver - there were enormous burdens and limitations that society placed on blackss, female, Catholic, or any of a number of other ethnic, national origin, or religious minorities in much of the country.

Whatever "better" past you're talking about, there's only a small minority of people today who could push a magic button and change places with a random person in that past and be better off for the change.

We are in it up to our waists and headed for the deep end.

And the present is always better than the past for some people, and worse for others. Which is why the fascist framing is described as the "mythic" past, not a genuine comparison of ways the country may have improved or regressed.

Yup.

As P.J. O'Roarke put it in All the Trouble in the World,

Things are better now than things have been since men began keeping track of things. Things are better than they were only a few years ago. Things are better, in fact, than they were at 9:30 this morning, thanks to Tylenol and two Bloody Marys. But that's personal and history is general. It's always possible to come down with the mumps on V-J Day or to have, right in the middle of the fall of the Berlin Wall, a piece of it fall on your foot. In general, life is better than it ever has been, and if you think that, in the past, there was some golden age of pleasure and plenty to which you would, if you were able, transport yourself, let me say one single word: 'dentistry.'

To put it in musical terms, everyone likes to harken back to the good ol' days of 60s or 70s music rather than contemplate the dreck that is sold today. Well, the 60s and 70s brought us The Beatles, the Beach Boys, Zeppelin, Jim Croce and Eagles. But they also brought us The Monkees (the "Pre-Fab Faux"), Bread singing "Baby I'm a want ya" and Starland Vocal Band which won TWO GRAMMYS for god's sake, beating BOSTON for best new artist and QUEEN'S Bohemian Rhapsody for Best Arrangment for Voices.

It's easy for demagogues to romanticize the past because humans have built in pschological defenses that supress most minor negative experiences from active memory. That leaves us looking at the present through unfiltered glass but the past through a rose-colored lens that makes nearly everything in the past look better than the present.


WTH

And sometime the present is in fact worse than the past. To think otherwise would require permanent infallibility.

Looks like we're going to be treated to endless whines about how we're Weimar Germany and all that for the next year. After all, it's only a democracy when a democrat wins, amirite? Yeah...no. The nation don't roll like that.

I don't recall Trump writing a book about dominating the world and I don't recall him mobilizing America's Armed Forces to go out and secure more Lebensraum for the Volk when he was President before. What I seem to recall was the exact opposite and there weren't a load of hot wars around the world with more brewing in the Pacific.

I also don't recall Trump weaponizing the FBI, the DOJ or the CIA to persecute his political opponents. Maybe because that never happened. I can't seem to remember street violence at scale caused by his personal army of goons...and maybe that's because he doesn't have one (cue the bogus links and counter arguments. Don't even try it, Antifa-lovers; some of us got ringside seats to your Summer Of Love.)

I *do* however recall these same agencies using their powers to violate Americans' civil rights.
I do recall these same agencies lying to the FISA court, and abusing their powers. Fabricating evidence. Using the media to push false narratives and lies about foreign influence in this country. I'm looking forward to the denials that will be posted; they'll all be excellent ways to announce "I'm ignorant of what those I support have been doing the last 6 years".

I also recall gangs of street "toughs" (these people are all meek cowards when you see them one on one and fold when you give them even token resistance) harassing old people and GOP politicians out in public, sometimes engaging in violence.

There's a pattern forming, all right, but it's not the pattern many here think it is. Just as a peeping tom sometimes graduates into indecently exposing himself and then if not caught further escalates into hanging around the school playground it seems that we have a cadre of politically-minded people who are in the process of dehumanizing their opponents and mentally justifying an increasing level of Anything Goes.

Oh, your house was egged? Serves you right for displaying that Republican sign.
Oh, your car's windows were all broken out? If it hadn't had been parked at that campaign rally, nothing would have happened - so that's on you.
Oh, you got hit by a bottle? What were you doing speaking up at the town hall? You should have known better.
Oh, what a shame what happened to Mr. John Doe. He should have just kept to himself and he wouldn't have suffered that fate. No one wants to end up like him, right?

A pattern. One that ends in a place called FAFO. Jedi warned you people about this for 10 years and now here you are.

So keep up the Nazi stuff and please do keep dehumanizing half the country. Keep on taking normal expressions of politics out of context and labeling them as extreme and please do keep escalating the tactics of #cancellation and intimidation.

Make sure to make sanctimonious and wholly insincere appeals to national unity while you're at it. Nothing accompanies patterns of escalating behavior like gaslighting.

Dope1: I also don't recall Trump weaponizing the FBI, the DOJ or the CIA to persecute his political opponents. Maybe because that never happened.

Amnesia or dementia?

President Trump on Friday pressured the Department of Justice ' and specifically the FBI ' to investigate Hillary Clinton, ticking through a slew of issues involving the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee and her party, and urging law enforcement to 'do what is right and proper.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/...

'At one point in the spring of 2018, Trump instructed [former White House Counsel] Don McGahn to direct [former Attorney General Jeff] Sessions to prosecute Clinton and Comey and, if the attorney general refused, said he would do it himself as president...'

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/36539...

In a court filing, John Kelly, who was a chief of staff under Donald Trump, said the former president had asked about having the tax agency look into Peter Strzok and Lisa Page.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/07/us/politics/tru...

But more political abuses have emerged, with revelations that ' starting under attorney general Jeff Sessions in 2018 ' subpoenas were issued in a classified leak inquiry to obtain communications records of top Democrats on the House intelligence committee. Targets were Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell, who were investigating Kremlin election meddling, and also several committee staffers and journalists.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/21/tr...

The list of Trump's misuse of previously independent agencies of government is endless.


Dope1: I can't seem to remember street violence at scale caused by his personal army of goons

January 6th ring any bells?

The Trump Cult is deaf and blind.

President Trump on Friday pressured the Department of Justice ' and specifically the FBI ' to investigate Hillary Clinton, ticking through a slew of issues involving the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee and her party, and urging law enforcement to 'do what is right and proper.'

Aaaaand they didn't do it and he didn't fire anybody. These same guys would go on to abuse their power.

Right from the start, your weaksauce doesn't work. Same with the rest of your nonsense.

Amnesia or dementia?

In your case, straight-up malevolent NPC programming.

January 6th ring any bells?

Yep. It PALED versus the Summer of Love that people like you cheered. Note that I used the word 'at scale'.

You never were any good at the details.

Grade? Fail.

Dope1: I also don't recall Trump weaponizing the FBI, the DOJ or the CIA to persecute his political opponents. Maybe because that never happened.

Amnesia or dementia?

Neither. Dope thinks he's Rush Limbaugh, and that he can pass gas uncontested, just like Rush did every morning for years.
The thing is, when his gas stinks, people on this board know he's simply flooding the zone with sh!t and call him on it.

We remember Trump's mini-putsch, firing honest, competent people, replacing them with brown nosed crooks and morons.

Aaaaand they didn't do it and he didn't fire anybody.

The options for the above Dope turd: liar or ignoratti.

Trump fired Director Chris Krebs, Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) for disputing Trump's claims of voter fraud.

Trump announced Krebs' firing on Twitter, citing his "highly inaccurate" remarks about the election's integrity amidst alleged "massive improprieties and fraud." Twitter subsequently flagged Trump's tweet for lying.

AG Jeff Sessions YER FIRED

Defense Secretary Mark Esper Pack yer bags

Gordon Sondland cya

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman

John Bolton

Lt. Gen. HR McMaster

Rex Tillerson

Steve Bannon

Anthony Scaramucci

Reince Priebus

James Comey

Sally Yates

Preet Bahara

Paul Manafort

etc etc etc.... tip of the Trumpen-eisberg

So keep up the Nazi stuff and please do keep dehumanizing half the country.

It's at best 1/3, last I knew. About 1/3 (a bit more than half of Republicans) were hard-core MAGA whackos. The rest of the Republicans don't want to burn it down, realize their guy lost (and accept it), were likely horrified by Jan 6, and just have differing opinions from the guy who won.

In that respect, we're fortunate we don't have a parliamentary system. The National Socialist Worker's Party only held about 1/3 of the seats at the Reichstag, but that was enough that they were key to forming a coalition to govern. And they got their guy Adolph in, as a result. We all know (or all should know) what happened after that. In our system, 1/3 isn't going to be enough to do that.

As long as MAGA dies on the vine, we'll be fine. Or at least as fine as we ever are. Honest disagreement is good, even if sometimes stressful and frustrating.

Last poll I saw says 58% of Reps support Trump. So, yeah...just over half. About 1/3 of Americans, in general.

Last poll I saw says 58% of Reps support Trump. So, yeah...just over half. About 1/3 of Americans, in genera.


Okay. For these 20-30 million people you're talking about, which path seems more reasonable:

Path A: Call them all Nazis and imply that what happens to Nazis happens to them
Path B: Say "I think you're wrong for the following reasons", and then have a discussion

This thread is Path A all the way. Is that the path you want to follow?

This thread is Path A all the way. Is that the path you want to follow?

In general, path B. But those 20-30 million people don't want to listen. They don't want to discuss. They have their heads so far into the MAGA-propaganda sphere that they are not in touch with reality on many (if not most) issues.

I could provide several anecdotes, but that would be too small a dataset. We can look at the "conversations" going on all around us, and see that one side isn't conversing. They're accusing.** We can at least discuss with you and BHM and a few others here. But I suspect you guys aren't part of that 20-30 million people. In fact, I know you aren't since you've said publicly that if Trump is the nominee, you may not vote for him. That 30M people not only will vote for him, but they aren't even interested in listening to the other candidates from their own party. Which is how Trump is getting away with not showing up to any of the primary-related events (like the "debates").




**Specifically that the election was stolen, despite the facts; that Trump did nothing wrong, despite the recent court rulings, indictments, testimony, etc ("oh, that's a big conspiracy of the liberal courts!!"). And on and on and on...

Path B: Say "I think you're wrong for the following reasons", and then have a discussion

It doesn't work with you, even for the ever patient albaby who tries so valiantly to reason with all y'all dittoheads.... and it doesn't work for any of the other people swimming in the orange kkkoolaid pool.

Last poll I saw says 58% of Reps support Trump. So, yeah...just over half. About 1/3 of Americans, in general.


Truly frightens me!!! And they aren't addressing the true good of our country, even though they are smugly, self-righteously (and oh so blindly) convinced they are. Nor are the ultra-right-wing members of the House and Senate. Look at the components of the budget crisis this past week.

The lack of a strong Democratic contender for the White House makes is profoundly concerning. I think that Biden overall has really done an excellent job. But his age, his unpresidential manner of speaking, and his vice-president all combine to diminish his strength as a vote-getter.

Scary times!

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