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Luke Harding of The Guardian noted that the plan appears to have been translated from Russian, as many of the phrases in the text read naturally in that language but are awkward and clunky in English.

The plan is a Russian wish list. It begins by confirming Ukraine’s sovereignty, a promise Russia gave Ukraine in 1994 in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons but then broke when it invaded Ukraine in 2014.

The plan gives Crimea and most of the territory in Ukraine’s four eastern oblasts of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk to Russia, and it limits the size of the Ukrainian military.

It erases any and all accountability for the Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilians, including well-documented rape, torture, and murder. It says: “All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.”

It calls for $100 billion in frozen Russian assets to be invested in rebuilding and developing Ukraine. Since the regions that need reconstruction are the ones Russia would be taking, this means that Russian assets would go back to Russia. The deal says that Europe, which was not consulted, will unfreeze Russian assets and itself add another $100 billion to the reconstruction fund. The plan says the U.S. “will receive 50 percent of the profits from this venture,” which appears to mean that Europe will foot the bill for the reconstruction of Ukraine—Russia, if the plan goes through—and the U.S. and Russia will split the proceeds.
—Heather Cox Richardson

Translation: Putin knows that Trump can be made to sell out Ukraine and NATO for cash.

Good.

If not, draft kids from families with higher than average 401K balances.

Send them over to defend Ukraine.

Chickenhawks!

And we should show Putin we are as united as we showed Saddam in the 2000s.

If not, draft kids from families with higher than average 401K balances.

You want a draft? Warmonger!

Echota,

Draft flaming liberal ProGlib female screeching cat ladies of all ages. Be anti-ageist and pro-Feminist.

Women can do anything and they deserve equal treatment. Just ask the WNBA.

Draft liberal women and send them to Ukraine.

Trump said "no American boots on the ground," he didn't prohibit high heels, sensible shoes, or those cute strappy things on the ground

SEND THEM. SEND THEM ALL.

Translation: Putin knows that Trump can be made to sell out Ukraine and NATO for cash.

That has been the consensus, from what I see: Putin dictated the terms, Trump rubber stamped it, and presented it to Ukraine as a fait accompli. Isn't this about what Trump did, for "peace" in Afghanistan? Negotiate with the Taliban, without giving the recognized Afghan government a seat at the table? Selling out Ukraine the same way. After all, Proles are nothing but expendable meat, right?

Thing is, Ukraine, and the EU, aren't having it.

Does Trump count Afghanistan as one of the wars "he ended" to qualify for a Nobel?

Steve

Trump didn't "rubber stamp" anything.

If Europe and Ukraine doesn't like the proposal, they can and will reject it.

That will give Trump leverage to go back to the Russians and get concessions.

Why don't you guys understand "negotiations"?

If not, draft kids from families with higher than average 401K balances.

Notice how fast the US got out of 'Nam, when the college deferment ended, in the fall of 71? Guys who were already in college still had their deferment. Guys who graduated high school in 71 were cannon fodder candidates. Daddy couldn't hide them in college anymore.

For those scoring at home, the college deferment officially ended September 71. The Paris Peace Accords were signed January 27, 1973. Draft ended the same day the peace accords were signed. That war had ground on for years. Thousands of guys killed before they grew up. Start drafting middle class guys, and *poof*, war ended in 16 months.

Steve

Draft American white liberal women, you know, the kind who really really want the Ukraine war to continue until Russia is totally defeated, who think Trump is Putin's patsy, between the ages of 18-65, hand them rifles (maybe the older ones can be in support roles rather than direct combat), send them to the front, and let THEM fight and die for Ukraine.

Oh yeah send the Vindman brothers and Fiona Hill as well.

Draft American white liberal women,

Kegsbreath doesn't want women. They don't fit his "war fighter" culture.

who think Trump is Putin's patsy,

Trump already showed his stripes in Afghanistan. Cut the Afghan government out of the "negotiations", and offered to cut and run even faster than Biden executed it. As suggested elsewhere, what probably put Trump back in surrender monkey mode was the Europeans starting to sell their own systems to Ukraine, rather than paying for US systems. No profit for the US? No interest in the war.

Besides, "the whole world wonders", if Putin has the pix of Trump "blowing bubba".

Steve

That has been the consensus, from what I see: Putin dictated the terms, Trump rubber stamped it, and presented it to Ukraine as a fait accompli. Isn't this about what Trump did, for "peace" in Afghanistan? Negotiate with the Taliban, without giving the recognized Afghan government a seat at the table? Selling out Ukraine the same way. After all, Proles are nothing but expendable meat, right?

Yah, Trump's people got together with the Russians a month ago and this is the result. We are back to surrender monkey tactics, and from what I hear he wants to make 50% off of the Russian frozen assets. So is Putin giving him the go ahead on 50%, is that the carrot? Did any of you MAGA agree to this when you voted? I know Dope thinks it's hopeless and Ukraine should give in (unless he's got a new position), but it's a Russian dream to get the empire back. There has to be a trove of mineable minerals back in the rural areas.

I volunteered for the draft and went into the 82d because they were pulling troops out of Vietnam, and I thought about going Ranger. Had two friends in the Rangers and another in the Green Berets, but I thought I'd do better going to college, so I did two year and left. There were so many guys who wanted to go to Vietnam who were upset that going Airborne meant they wouldn't go, but we were being readied for the Middle East.

I voted for Nixon to get us out of Nam, and later found out Nixon's people met with the Vietnamese, put a kabosh on LBJ's negotiations to end the war, and actually extended the war. I was a Republican back then.

There was an experimental project to lower the IQ and physical standards for inductees. It was a mistake, they didn't have the skills and had a higher death toll. So if we draft, we need to keep the standards up and upset those demographics. They taught a tactic called Advance on Line which meant we stand abreast of each other, 20 feet apart, and advance on command, firing every time you put your left foot down. I felt totally exposed, thought it was crazy, and asked them if we ever actually used that. The upshot was no, but one time it was used to get a sniper in one camp in Vietnam. I was relieved, but no one else questioned it.

Lamb bone,

I absolutely agree that only the highest IQ types should be drafted and sent into the meat grinder in Ukraine.

That would be white liberal college graduates and post-graduates.

Send them. Send them ALL.

I voted for Nixon to get us out of Nam, and later found out Nixon's people met with the Vietnamese, put a kabosh on LBJ's negotiations to end the war, and actually extended the war. I was a Republican back then.

There was chatter, for a long time, that Saint Reagan's people did a deal with Iran, so that they would not release the hostages while Carter was POTUS. The hostages were released the day Reagan was inaugurated.

Some of us also remember when Congress defunded Reagan's "contras", because they were terrorists. So Reagan violated the US arms embargo on Iran, to sell them weapons, and use the proceeds to fund the contras.

Remember the stories about a Reagan flunky delivering a cake to the Ayatollahs?

A delegation led by former National Security Adviser Robert C. McFarlane carried a chocolate cake “from a kosher bakery in Tel Aviv” when they flew to Tehran to meet the strict Islamic leaders in secret last May, according to the report of the presidential commission that investigated the Iran- contras scandal.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-02-27...

Then Bush 41 pardoned everyone, to cover the entire, wildly illegal, mess, up.

Steve

One of the strongest aspects of our military is its training and expertise. But that comes with a cost.

It takes years of training for many of our technical jobs in the military, and the percentage of "technical jobs" is only increasing. Even the ordinary, everyday infantry grunt has to learn any number of technical aspects to perform adequately.

And that aspect argues against a draft. By the time a soldier is adequately trained to perform a specific mission, either the war will be over, or his term of service will be ending.

Conceptually, I love the idea of a draft. Conceptually, it addresses some serious downsides to having a strictly professional army.

Practically, draftees would be little more than "meat" and cannon fodder.

Then Bush 41 pardoned everyone, to cover the entire, wildly illegal, mess, up.

Iran Contra was an interesting time. I'm glad Bush pardoned them. I wanted that chapter over, but it never seems to be over.

Practically, draftees would be little more than "meat" and cannon fodder.

That's what we were, thus my move to the 82d, the rest of my training unit shipped to Vietnam. I stayed stateside. Also, my father became Deputy Surgeon of Vietnam - planned the medical evacuation, then had a heart attack and retired.

There were fellows at jump training who dropped out of training because they wanted to go to Vietnam. Not me, I met guys coming back from Nam and it changed them. Later, anyone who'd been in the service, hid that fact for a while. I did get injured in a bad jump, and 20 years later it blew out, but I had a successful operation on my back.

I've had service friends on disability tell me they can show me how to get disability. There's only one problem - I'm not disabled. I lived my life one way and I'm not going to change it. It's been a good way.

Iran Contra was an interesting time. I'm glad Bush pardoned them. I wanted that chapter over, but it never seems to be over.

Standing in a field of coffee beans in Coyolar, several miles from the provincial capital of Matagalpa, I listened to a campesino coffee farmer as he pointed to a point higher on the mountainside, the point from where the Contras launched their attack on his village ten years before. He swept his hand from the mountainside to the village, describing where they had burned the clinic, shot some of the men and destroyed the school.


I asked him what he would do if those men walked toward him, across his coffee field today.


“If he was a private? Nothing. He was just a campesino like me.

But if he was an officer? I’d shoot him dead.”

Standing in a field of coffee beans in Coyolar, several miles from the provincial capital of Matagalpa, I listened to a campesino coffee farmer as he pointed to a point higher on the mountainside, the point from where the Contras launched their attack on his village ten years before. He swept his hand from the mountainside to the village, describing where they had burned the clinic, shot some of the men and destroyed the school.

I remember Managua, and the lake down there that has freshwater sharks because it was underwater in the ocean and slowly rose, trapping them and they evolved. And of course the bank up a flight of steps off a central square with doors flanked by armed to the teeth soldiers. I was 16 and this was a great adventure. The soldiers stuck with me, later I learned our history there.

I remember Managua, and the lake down there that has freshwater sharks because it was underwater in the ocean and slowly rose, trapping them and they evolved.

That was the explanation years ago, but since then, we’ve done a bit more reasearch and thinking on the subject.

First…… in a fishing story that may seem unrelated, but actually isn’t….. did you know that in the late thirties, a bull shark was caught (and photographed/documented) in the Mississippi River at Alton, Illinois, over 1000 miles from the Gulf of Mexico.

The “fresh water sharks” of Lake Managua are actually bull sharks (now genetically identified as such).

Further, a water route to the Caribbean still exists. Lake Managua connects to Rio Tipitapa, which flows into Lake Nicaragua, which flows into Rio San Juan, which empties into the Caribbean.

Alas, no bull sharks have been sighted in Lake Managua or Lake Nicaragua for decades- which undoubtedly comes as a relief to swimmers.


But if a bull shark is sighted there (wouldn’t surprise me), it probably won’t be a direct descendant of former denizens, but rather an intrepid explorerer, recently arrived from the Caribbean.


By the way! The United States ALMOST built its canal in Nicaragua- dredging the San Juan, sailing across Lake Nicaragua, dredging the Tipitapa, sailing across Lake Managua, and then cutting through the short stretch of land between Lake Managua and the Pacific.

I’ve even watched the revival of plans for that canal in recent years. Chinese money? Or Trump declaring Daniel Ortega a clear and present communist threat, invading the country and then opening up the bidding for American firms to build the canal? Who knows? Regardless, the future doesn’t look bright for any bull sharks in the lakes of Nicaragua.

And of course the bank up a flight of steps off a central square with doors flanked by armed to the teeth soldiers.

The soldiers stuck with me, later I learned our history there.

I spent a lot of time there during the 90’s. Fascinating history. During the 80’s, Daniel Ortega was the young and vigorous champion of the poor before he left voluntarily after being beaten by Violetta Chamorro in an election.

He nursed his grudges for ten long years, ran for office again, and won the election.

Now he’s just an old, tin pot dictator, and still has a dwindling base of support among the aging revolutionaries who can’t believe that their “Daniel” is no better than the Somoza he overthrew in 1979.

I also remember the ubiquitous guns that were everywhere. I haven’t been back since 2001. My guess is that they are still there, on every street corner and in front of every bank and government building.

Guns everywhere- mostly automatic weapons- old AKs and Belgian FALs.

Thanks for giving me a heads up on the new bull shark thinking. :) (Hope you got a chuckle.)

It's so disappointing to see revolution yield nothing more than a new authoritarian oligarchy that needs a revolution to oust them out. Our oligarchy is squeezing the middle class and workers too much. And who do we elect? Someone that caters to the oligarchy and thinks the deficit is unlimited. We are increasing the deficit on a huge basis and it's all going to our oligarchy. We're nuts!

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