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The week's question
In March 2025, in the thread "Re: OT, out", Umm asked the members: "Do you think it is because America is made up of magical soil that makes businesses based in America magically profitable?" This week it is put to everyone again. The button below opens the small thread re-asking it - read what others have said so far, then give your own answer as an ordinary reply.
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Author: commonone ✹✹ HONORARY
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Number: of 86283 
Subject: Re: 18 USC 241 Intent
Date: 08/05/23 2:57 PM
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bighairymike: Does it come back to things he said or things he did? He did use his voice but that is not a physical action like robbing a bank.

The indictment is not complicated.

Trump entered into a criminal conspiracy to retain the presidency despite losing the election. That conspiracy to defraud the United States in the administration of elections under 18 USC 371 included fraudulent slates of electors in seven states and other alleged schemes.

Among those schemes, Trump and his co-conspirators pressured states to overturn the election on the basis of false claims of election fraud. They sought to have the Justice Department "conduct sham election crime investigations" and use its authority to announce the legitimacy of Trump's claims of election fraud. And they created actual slates of fake electors, including fraudulent certificates from dozens of Trump-supporting electors in seven states which described the signers listed as "duly elected."

After each of his schemes failed, Trump pressured his vice president to obstruct the constitutionally mandated congressional certification of the election Jan. 6, by either blocking Congress from recognizing Joe Biden's win or by delaying the vote count.

When Pence, who tried to find a way to comply with the former president's demands, said he could not do so Trump and his co-conspirators enlisted Members of Congress to further delay certification based on false claims of election fraud (such as senator Cruz's speech demanding a ten-day pause in order to return electors to the states for review).

In addition, Smith alleges Trump obstructed and conspired to obstruct an official proceeding of the United States government, under two different parts of 18 USC 1512, by conspiring to and interfering with the proper counting of the ballots Jan. 6.

So, no, the indictment does not address mere words spoken by Trump, "his voice".

Trump and his co-conspirators placed several schemes into action. The fact that they failed does not make them any less criminal.
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This community has written 86,214 posts about US Policy. The article-length ones it recommended most:
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