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Are we screwed? Will we get aid to Ukraine out the door? Will the RW succeed in drying up all aid to Ukraine?

<snip>On Sunday, in a leaked call with GOP members, Johnson went further, saying he wouldn’t accept any Senate deal and that he doesn’t think the border issue can be solved until a Republican becomes president.

GOP supporters of Ukraine aid, who rightly warn that letting it run out would be a disaster, are increasingly concerned that the MAGA right-wingers will succeed in halting the vital military assistance.

“The speaker is going to have to make a hard decision about what to do,” House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul (R-Tex.), told me. “If we abandon our NATO allies and surrender to [Vladimir] Putin in Ukraine, it’s not going to make the world safer, it’s going to make the world more dangerous. … [Ronald] Reagan would never have surrendered to the Soviet Union. Maybe that’s a shift in our party.”

McCaul said Johnson might chop up the Senate proposal and send it back in pieces, or he might send over an entirely different House bill. Either way, the effect will be that any Senate-struck agreement won’t reach the president’s desk intact or anytime soon. Several Hill aides said the earliest a supplemental funding bill could realistically be completed is early March. By then, GOP support for passing anything related to immigration or Ukraine will have eroded even further under Trump’s relentless barrage.<snip>

It looks like there's some heavy anti-democratic sentiment out there. I've read the one consistent theme in conservatism is that certain people were better at ruling us and we should let them rule -err- govern us.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/01/19...

<snip>On Sunday, in a leaked call with GOP members, Johnson went further, saying he wouldn’t accept any Senate deal and that he doesn’t think the border issue can be solved until a Republican becomes president.

The GOP has no interest in immigration reform while Biden is in office. The problem is much to valuable to them as a political tool to motivate the MAGA crowd.

The GOP has no interest in immigration reform while Biden is in office. The problem is much to valuable to them as a political tool to motivate the MAGA crowd.

My read is similar, which is why this tactic from the Senate perplexes me a little. Exactly how do Dems benefit from playing into this? I don't see how Dems benefit, but Repubs do.

The GOP has no interest in immigration reform while Biden is in office. The problem is much to valuable to them as a political tool to motivate the MAGA crowd. = ges

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Well, the dems brought that upon themselves. In general, Dems are supportive pf open borders (my term for whatever the hell is actually going on at border) and Biden has a well earned reputation for exacerbating this problem and allowing illegal immigration. Yes, I know ,ost are technically legal) to reach levels never before seen. That doesn't make the cost and the security issues any less of a problem. Frankly, besides being dangerous, it is embarrassing that we can't control our borders.

The republicans are rightly justified in their skepticism that Biden will keep up his side of any deal made despite him saying "I am ready for change, I really mean it". His words are inconsistent with his track record.

With Trump, there is no question about his commitment to border security. So trusting a deal made with Trump is no concern at all.

The GOP has no interest in immigration reform while Biden is in office. The problem is much to valuable to them as a political tool to motivate the MAGA crowd.<<

My read is similar, which is why this tactic from the Senate perplexes me a little. Exactly how do Dems benefit from playing into this? I don't see how Dems benefit, but Repubs do. - Lapsody

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I would like to see the particulars of the Senate proposal to see how close we really are. Has a guaranteed minimum of 5,000 per day been stripped out, for example.

Even if Biden agrees to really strong border bill, there remains the problem of trusting him to implement it. The changes included in any bill will barely be started, if at all, by election day. If Biden wins the election, what incentive will he have to enthusiastically implement the reforms. More likely he would simply not enforce any new provisions that would impede flow.

His track record certainly validates that concern. Agree?

His track record certainly validates that concern. Agree?

No. Biden extended Title 42 as long as he could. Everything else has been according to present US law.

This is the chance to change that law. If Senate Reps and Dems are even close to a compromise, that is huge. I don't even have to know what's in it. It's bipartisan, and so has stuff both sides hate and stuff both sides can live with. Such is compromise.

Otherwise, things will continue as they are, which you have made very clear you loathe. Don't worry, the Reps would never consider making the border looser.

IMHO, it's sacrificing the good in the name of the perfect. Progressives do that with tantrums voting for a candidate that has no chance (or not voting) instead of picking the least bad. Extreme right appears to be the same. Which is sad. Johnson should ignore them and LEAD (he is allegedly a 'leader'). But it looks like he won't.

No. Biden extended Title 42 as long as he could. Everything else has been according to present US law. - 1pg

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And Biden is quite happy to ignore the issue. The status qou was fine as along as immigration was flowing freely. Except for occasional lip service, his benign neglect continues to this day, but recently, when dem city mayors started screaming. Well not when they started screaming, they had to scream for about a year or so until election season.

Now Biden has declared himself "ready to solve the problem" and then adding, "I really mean it." But does he mean it? Given his track record, probably not.

rusting a deal made with Trump is no concern at all.

You mean like all those Jan 6 picnickers with those long 20 year prison terms trusted Trump to give them a pardon? This is who you trust? You mean the fellow who wasn't going to build your wall until Ann Coulter goaded him into it? That guy? You mean the fellow who added three trillion to the national debt by giving huge tax breaks to billionaires? That's who you trust? Let me see, did he run on giving money away to billionaires? No.

But your trust is not misplaced - why we are minting right now a $5,000 golden statue of Trump NFT that we can let you have for the low price of $1,000. Sure to become a collector's item after Trump's third term. And for $5,000 you can have an NFT of Trump at the border wall with his foot on an illegal's neck. And for you Evangelicals, for $10,000 we have an NFT with Trump rising into the air during the rapture. and for all you Neo Nazis and White Christian Nationalists we have a $1,000,000 NFT of Putin taking over Ukraine, Moldova, Romania and moving on to establish White Christian Nationalism in heathen Europe.

IN TRUMP WE TRUST!

And we also have courses in how to become like Trump and better serve Trump coming soon. Pre order now!

BHM: With Trump, there is no question about his commitment to border security. So trusting a deal made with Trump is no concern at all.

Sure, if you live deep inside the cult.

According to the Migration Policy Institute, the Trump administration deported about one-third as many immigrants in the country illegally from the interior during its first four fiscal years as the administration of President Barack Obama during the same time frame.

Only a true cultist would utter the words "trusting a deal made with Trump is no concern at all" when there's endless evidence that Trump is a compulsive liar who has broken his word over and over again.

Or do you actually believe there's a big, beautiful wall on the southern border paid for by Mexico?

Sheesh. The cult is bigly stoopid.

BrerBear: All elected public officials and peace officers, etc., in all 50 states, nationwide, swear (or affirm) to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

Illegals entering the country illegally are in violation of the Constitution.

Umm, nope. Abbott had to get his state legislature to pass Senate Bill 4 to make it a state crime to illegally cross the border from Mexico — a new law that the federal government will certainly challenge in court.

BHM: ...Biden has a well earned reputation for exacerbating this problem and allowing illegal immigration. Yes, I know ,ost are technically legal) to reach levels never before seen.

Right. Never before except in the middle 1980s and the late 1990s when the numbers were basically the same.

BHM: The republicans are rightly justified in their skepticism that Biden will keep up his side of any deal...

President Biden will have no control over legislation and funding. While his administration could possibly challenge legislation in court, there's no way he's going to do so in an election year. This is the best chance republicans will ever have to get immigration reform done -- even idiots like Graham and McConnell understand this.

If you think you'll get a better "deal" with Trump then please explain why it didn't happen when he was president and the republican party controlled both the House and Senate for two years.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-vow-t...

trusting a deal made with Trump is no concern at all.

Now that is hilarious. Trust the grifter who always lies, cheats and steals. Sure.

>>trusting a deal made with Trump is no concern at all.<<

You mean like all those Jan 6 picnickers with those long 20 year prison terms trusted Trump to give them a pardon? - Lapsody

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Stick to the topic, which had to do with Biden's trustworthiness to make a deal on immigration. Are you saying Biden is a border hawk so is as trustworthy on this as Trump?

LOL, by the way. That was an excellent and amusing rant about Trump and Putin and NFT's. Well written, I like good snark.

And we also have courses in how to become like Trump and better serve Trump coming soon. Pre order now!

I will pass on the pre-order and wait until the re-education camps are open. I hear they are nice.

If you think you'll get a better "deal" with Trump then please explain why it didn't happen when he was president and the republican party controlled both the House and Senate for two years. - CO

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LOL. The dems, the libs, the progressives, the MSM and the deep state fought and undermined Trump from day 1. It is amazing he got as much done as he did.

Really, the resistance was quite effective. You guys should feel proud, victorious almost.... Own it.

Biden's trustworthiness to make a deal on immigration

There is nothing I can point to that shows Biden is untrustworthy. There are myths about Reagan that the Cato institute has said are myths and cite statements and actions that counter those myths. All I have seen you do is make unsupported statements in these areas that indicate you belief system, but I've shown you one belief is a myth. I don't mind at all if we spend money wisely strengthening the border, let's just get away from costly stunts that do nothing except for polys.

>>Biden's trustworthiness to make a deal on immigration<<

There is nothing I can point to that shows Biden is untrustworthy. - Lapsody

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If you think Biden is strong on border that is fine, but a sizable majority of the country see's it differently.

This reminds of the Biden Admin having to give up explaining how good the economy was under Bidenomics. But out in the real world, the people buying gas and food and paying rent weren't buying it, despite the administration's glowing statistics.

We will find out in November.

The resistance was to illegal orders and a farcical wall. There was NO immigration legislation on the table, or at least it never made it to floor. And since the Reps controlled everything, that's on them.

Now there is. A deal is possible. Bipartisan. And the rep-controlled House may nuke it.

Great job there, Johnson.

Now there is. A deal is possible. Bipartisan. And the rep-controlled House may nuke it.


And what's in this deal for Republicans? You guys can't point to the fact that some GOPe Senators want something and automatigacally assume it's actuallt good for the country.

I assume that most of what QOP senators want is NOT good for the country. To me that is almost a given. But such is the nature of compromise.

Otherwise you have gridlock, nothing gets done, and the status quo continues.

If you think Biden is strong on border that is fine, but a sizable majority of the country see's it differently.

I think you misunderstand, Biden fails silently at the border, Trump fails loudly - that's the difference.

This reminds of the Biden Admin having to give up explaining how good the economy was under Bidenomics. But out in the real world, the people buying gas and food and paying rent weren't buying it, despite the administration's glowing statistics.

Wrong. Bidenomics is doing fantastically well. People are slowly picking up om it. We'll defeat you in November.

Wrong. Bidenomics is doing fantastically well. People are slowly picking up om it. We'll defeat you in November.

The data now say that is not correct. Bidenomics is doing well, but people aren't aware. And while some prices have receded, some things are still more expensive than when Biden first took office. Through no fault of Biden, but people always blame whomever is POTUS.

Sometimes the POTUS is to blame, certainly. But a lot of the time it's the invisible hand, wars, OPEC, and other factors beyond his/her control.

Polling shows Trump with a slight lead, though generally within the error bars. Too close to call, but it's also very early.

The data now say that is not correct. Bidenomics is doing well, but people aren't aware.

Sigh, people are *slowly* becoming aware. By the time of the election - people will be aware - we've got 10 months. Even Mike will be aware, so he'll have to triple down on the border and how untrustworthy Biden is.

The stages of Republican economic grief:

The economy is lousy

The numbers may look good, but people aren’t feeling it

People are feeling better, but won’t credit Biden

Trump will give everyone a pony

From the K :)

This reminds of the Biden Admin having to give up explaining how good the economy was under Bidenomics. But out in the real world, the people buying gas and food and paying rent weren't buying it, despite the administration's glowing statistics.

The idea that the bumbling, lazy, incompetent Trump is going to fix ANYTHING is absurd.

I hope you are correct.

Back to Ukraine aid, that seems like a no-brainer to me. Failing to do so sends a dangerous message to despots, especially Putin who has his eye on several former Soviet "republics" (he still seems determined to recreate the USSR). Not to mention Xi and Taiwan, plus the South China Sea.

As a bonus, it mires an adversary in a swamp of their own making, which means they have to make choices about how to allocate resources. They are losing a lot of hardware, and their readiness has plummeted. They are barely holding their own against a much smaller adversary that has already been battered.

Back when I was still a Republican, there would have been overwhelming support for this aid. If anything, the Dems may have been reticent. Not the Republicans.

Continued support might even rid us of Putin. Young Russians coming home in body bags doesn't win a lot of support from Russian families. Estimates vary a lot, but the low end is 70k dead Russians, with another 200k wounded. It's horrific, and the Russian people won't stand for that indefinitely. Many have already left Russia to avoid conscription.

Back to Ukraine aid, that seems like a no-brainer to me. Failing to do so sends a dangerous message to despots, especially Putin

And we can be pretty sure that Trump, if elected, will give Putin anything he wants. Very bad.

Back when I was still a Republican, there would have been overwhelming support for this aid. If anything, the Dems may have been reticent. Not the Republicans.


Okay, let's clear up some misperceptions here.

First off: the nature of the aid.
We're sending war stocks off to the Ukrainians. That means, already-produced ammo and equipment that the US Army has is getting "USA" scrubbed off of it plus a quickie blue and yellow sticker placed on top. Then it's shipped to Rzeszów, Poland and sent by rail to the Ukraine. If you're into Flightradar 24 you can watch the cargo planes land and takeoff.

The 'money' in most cases is being spent...in the US defense industry. Gotta make more Bradleys and drones and HIMARs and rockets and artillery shells.

All good, right?

If the US had a better functioning armament industry...then yes.

And we can be pretty sure that Trump, if elected, will give Putin anything he wants. Very bad. - ges

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Trump gave the EU, and especially Germany, frequent lectures about the risks of buying Russian Natural Gas.

Trump gave Putin advanced missile defense systems, no wait, Trump gave those to Ukraine.

Trump condemned Russia over their seizure of Crimea.

I seems to recall he declared one of the Russian Embassies to be a nest of spies and expelled all the diplomats.

What makes you think Trump will give Putin anything unless it provides an advantage to the USA. You know, the old America First idea.

Back when I was still a Republican, there would have been overwhelming support for this aid. If anything, the Dems may have been reticent. Not the Republicans

I was a Republican then too. Republicans are unrecognizable to me now.

Okay, let's clear up some misperceptions here.

First off: the nature of the aid.

How does this change it so you don't support aid to Ukraine?

Be direct and succinct.

Trump condemned Russia over their seizure of Crimea.

<snip>President Trump blamed the last U.S. president for Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, praising President Vladimir Putin for outsmarting President Obama and saying he thought Russia should be welcomed back into the annual meeting of the leaders of the world’s largest economic powers.

Speaking in France at the G-7 conference, Trump repeatedly expressed his disagreement with the decision to suspend Russia’s membership in what was then called the G-8 over its seizure of the crucial peninsula of Crimea from the Ukraine. He claimed that Obama was “embarrassed” and “outsmarted by Putin.”

“Would I invite [Putin]? I would certainly invite him,” Trump said, in answer to a question about next year’s meeting, which will be hosted by the U.S. But he expressed concern that the Russian president’s feelings were hurt by the earlier expulsion. “Whether or not he could come psychologically, I think that’s a tough thing for him to do.”

The Guardian reported Sunday that Trump’s suggestion that Russia be readmitted to the G-7 was not supported by the other world leaders in attendance.<snip>


https://news.yahoo.com/trump-obama-putin-russia-cr...

What makes you think Trump will give Putin anything unless it provides an advantage to TRUMP?

Fixed that for you.

Trump gave Putin advanced missile defense systems, no wait, Trump gave those to Ukraine

You mean the missile defense systems Trump ordered held up in an attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy ?

The Trump administration has approved the $39 million sale of defensive lethal weapons to Ukraine, according to two U.S. officials and another source familiar with the plan.

U.S. arms sales to Ukraine have become embroiled in a controversy over President Donald Trump's dealings with Ukraine, after the White House ordered nearly $400 million in military assistance to Ukraine to be withheld and Ukraine's new president raised arms sales with Trump on a controversial July 25 call.

The new package will include Javelin anti-tank weapons, with one U.S. official saying it includes 150 missiles and two launchers, which was first reported by Bloomberg News.

You mean the missile defense systems Trump ordered held up in an attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy ? - Lapsody

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Blackmail, to be successful, requires the mark to be aware you are in fact blackmailing him, eg you do this or I'll do that. Trump never said or implied anything about delaying aid to Zelensky. Claiming trump threatened Zelensky is just an example deep state spin. There was no blackmail.

Trump gave the EU, and especially Germany, frequent lectures about the risks of buying Russian Natural Gas.

I've decided that a majority of these guys just make up stuff. Because you can't have lived the actual Trump Presidency and have an above room temperature IQ and still think that "Trump is a Russian plant".

Sanctions on Russia. And rather than "pulling out of NATO", Trump went about pressuring the deadbeat Germans to actually live up to their commitments to fund their militaries like they're supposed to.

But they have a narrative, and to that narrative they will cling.

Blackmail?

Here's a closer example of it.
https://oversight.house.gov/timeline/ukraine-11/bi...

I have no misperceptions about the Ukraine conflict. I follow it pretty closely. I know where much of the aid is coming from (mothballed hardware that we were never going to use again because we have newer stuff). The cost is just an accounting thing as it requires no new dollars be expended, except for shipping the materiel. It actually is saving us storage and/or scrapping costs.

We went into some detail about that a few months ago.

Meanwhile, Russia has raided their boneyards to resurrect equipment from the Vietnam era (T72) because much of their new stuff is already destroyed. So what the West is doing is really hurting Putin. Even some T62s have been spotted.

bighairymike: Blackmail, to be successful, requires the mark to be aware you are in fact blackmailing him, eg you do this or I'll do that. Trump never said or implied anything about delaying aid to Zelensky. Claiming trump threatened Zelensky is just an example deep state spin.

Well, let's go to the transcript:

Zelenskyy: "We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. Specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

Trump: "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you’re surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it."

So Zelenskyy said he was ready to buy more missiles and Trump said we needed a favor first that's going to benefit his campaign (not America). That would certainly imply delay.


Trump: "The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great."

Zelenskyy: "Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation..."

Trump pushed the Ukrainian president to get his country’s prosecutor to open an investigation into former vice president Biden and his son, Hunter, and Zelensky promised to do what Trump was asking — launch an investigation into the Bidens.

That sure sounds like Zelenskyy knew he was the mark but then I'm in the Deep State (we like caps, please).

BTW, points to you for getting in that Trumpy Deep State reference.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/25/us/...

Trump condemned Russia over their seizure of Crimea.

The right must constantly re-write history in order to keep the cognitive dissonance at bay.

bighairymike: Blackmail, to be successful, requires the mark to be aware you are in fact blackmailing him, eg you do this or I'll do that. Trump never said or implied anything about delaying aid to Zelensky. Claiming trump threatened Zelensky is just an example deep state spin.

So Zelenskyy said he was ready to buy more missiles and Trump said we needed a favor first that's going to benefit his campaign (not America). That would certainly imply delay. - CO

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Or "that would certainly provide an opening for critics to infer."

************

Well, let's go to the transcript: - More CO

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I couldn't locate the "If you don't, then...." part of the "blackmail threat". Could you point it out to me. TIA for your help.

I couldn't locate the "If you don't, then...." part of the "blackmail threat". Could you point it out to me. TIA for your help.

It's blackmail, only when attention was paid did Tr move.

And as for Dope, it's normal to use up the old stuff, that's what we did in GW1 and charged the Saudis for all the old stuff getting ready to go bad. The spotlight is on missile systems that can penetrate deep into Russia, and planes.

Doesn't help when Elon turns his satellite systems off because he doesn't like the plans. Never got my questions answered as to how he was privy to the plans.

And as for Dope, it's normal to use up the old stuff, that's what we did in GW1 and charged the Saudis for all the old stuff getting ready to go bad. The spotlight is on missile systems that can penetrate deep into Russia, and planes.

I didn't finish my point.
We're handing out more ammunition that we can manufacture. THAT's the issue. We're reducing our warstocks to the point that if something goes down elsewhere we may be stretched somewhat too thin.

Framing the issue as "Republicans don't want to help Ukraine" is a vast oversimplification of an issue.

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