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“The Biden administration has decided to play red rover with the world and greased up hands – damn near no one is turned away, all they have to do is claim they’re seeking asylum, that they fear for their lives somehow, and they’re in. They’re in until some random future court date they’ll never show up for or so far down the road that if they actually show up to it, some liberal judge will declare it too cruel to deport someone whose kids were born here and know nothing else.

Whatever amount of concern I may have had was trampled by the millions invading from the south and the idiots in the Democratic Party who would like nothing more than the power for themselves importing illiterate third-world countries every couple of months brings them. Nope, they all have to go.

There needs to be mass deportation. I don’t care where in the world you come from; international law requires asylum seekers who fear for their lives to seek asylum in the first country they come to, where the threat to the life you are fleeing does not exist. No human being marching in from Mexico meets that criterion, except for Mexican citizens. Not one single person from Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East, South America, or anywhere has a legitimate asylum claim, nor do I any longer care about any other sad tale of woe they might be able to spin.”

https://townhall.com/columnists/derekhunter/2023/1...

LM: Just reporting the news..

I don’t care where in the world you come from; international law requires asylum seekers who fear for their lives to seek asylum in the first country they come to, where the threat to the life you are fleeing does not exist.

No, it doesn't.

That's an EU requirement. The "first safe country" principle is not a requirement of international law.

LM: “The Biden administration has decided to play red rover with the world and greased up hands – damn near no one is turned away, all they have to do is claim they’re seeking asylum, that they fear for their lives somehow, and they’re in. They’re in until some random future court date

We've been discussing that - it's the current law - nothing to do with Biden. Since Title 42 ran out, hands are pretty much tied exept for coercing Mexico. Watcha need to do is and tell them to pass laws and fix it.

The "first safe country" principle is not a requirement of international law.

Maybe we could make that a requirement? Of course, "safe country" might be in the eye of the observer. But perhaps Venezuelans could be turned back because they had to go through Mexico, for example?

Just sorta spit-ballin' here.

We've been discussing that - it's the current law - nothing to do with Biden. Since Title 42 ran out, hands are pretty much tied exept for coercing Mexico. Watcha need to do is and tell them to pass laws and fix it.

They'll be in for a big surprise the next time a Rep is elected POTUS, and then can't do anything about it, either. Not even Title 42, most likely, since SCOTUS apparently greatly limited its scope a year or two ago.

"Maybe we could make that a requirement?"

We make laws about everything else in the world, why has Congress not made this a US requirement for asylum. Hmmm maybe they have other objectives in mind.

They'll be in for a big surprise the next time a Rep is elected POTUS, and then can't do anything about it, either.
I think the ones making the noise understand this. My impression is the whole slam Biden due to the economy is falling apart, so they are taking the next issue to the press; resulting in the current crop of noise about "illegals".
Alan

Based on the posts visible here, very few of the right-leaning folks seem to realize it. Maybe one or two. The rest seem to think Biden (or any POTUS) can fix it with the wave of a pen. That's simply not reality. Congress has to do it.

I'll do my part and vote for Dems for Congress. Maybe if we get enough, some legislation will be able to move through.

resulting in the current crop of noise about "illegals"

And that's why it'll never be resolved, it's too useful.

And that's why it'll never be resolved, it's too useful.

Say, let's check in with California!

https://nypost.com/2023/12/29/news/undocumented-im...

On Jan. 1, California will become the first state to offer free health care to all qualifying individuals — regardless of immigration status or age.

In May, Democrats in the California Legislature celebrated the budget deal struck by Newsom and state lawmakers that led to the latest Medi-Cal expansion, which will see some 700,000 undocumented immigrants, ages 26-49, obtain full coverage under the program.

Heh. I bet even Mayor Adams starts sending buses of illegals to CA.

Here's something the "Congress has to do its job" team isn't getting:

Illegals will show up here in record numbers as long as there are incentives for them.

And if the democrats get Congress and the Presidency, we'll see even MORE incentives. Not fewer.

I think the pro-open border crowd understands THAT. All too well.

And if the democrats get Congress and the Presidency, we'll see even MORE incentives. Not fewer.

I doubt that. The Progressive wing is loud, but not dominant.

Here's some more info on the matter (I don't follow CA politics, so didn't know much detail):

https://latino.ucla.edu/research/lessons-2022-adul...

Paid for with state funds.

Also: These government efforts are unequivocally important steps in the direction of universal health insurance coverage in California; however, it should be emphasized that this coverage option is only for eligible undocumented immigrants, meaning those with incomes that are 138 percent of FPL and below.21 Approximately 25 percent of undocumented immigrants in California were above this threshold.22

I can see both sides. Yes, it's an incentive. However, ERs can't ask immigration status or ability to pay. They just have to treat people. The ER is the most expensive way to get treatment, and if they can't pay then the taxpayers pay. It's cheaper to allow them to get treatment outside of an ER. Also, if someone has something communicable, it is more likely to be contained if they can get care before it becomes emergent.

I couldn't find the arguments and debates that CA had before doing this, so I'm just guessing that the above was part of the discussion.

Proper action by Congress would likely make this unnecessary by reducing the overall flow. THOSE are the discussions we need to be having. "Let them all in" and "keep them all out" is not realistic, and both are non-starters. But, I suspect, as long as it's a vote-getter, there won't be serious discussions about ameliorating the problem. And with the situation in other parts of the world, coupled with our broken system, they will keep coming here because it is better -even ignoring CA- than what they are leaving. Same reason a lot of Vietnam-era young men snuck into Canada...it was better there than here (at the time). My brother was going to go, but his draft number was so high he didn't have to worry about it. And I was too young (and then later enlisted in the Navy anyway).

Based on the posts visible here, very few of the right-leaning folks seem to realize it. Maybe one or two. The rest seem to think Biden (or any POTUS) can fix it with the wave of a pen. That's simply not reality. Congress has to do it.

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I understand that legislation is needed. However, that is no excuse for ignoring the issue or suing states for using state resources to interdict illegal crossing.

Why were many in early on caravans wearing t-shirts thanking Biden? Why isn't Biden jawboning for legislation with equal enthusiasm as he does for green energy. Biden actually prefers to mask the problem by trotting out Mayorkas to lie to our faces about how the border is secure.

A lot changed for the worse when Biden took over and it was not all or even mostly due to the expiration Title 42. The would be illegals correctly deduced they could get a better deal under Biden that Trump. Why is that?

Proper action by Congress

Okay. I'll bite.

WHAT action by Congress? Besides, "Fund more Border Patrol agents, build the wall and increase surveillance" along the border.

I'm wondering who will say, "declare an amnesty" first.

A lot changed for the worse when Biden took over and it was not all or even mostly due to the expiration Title 42. The would be illegals correctly deduced they could get a better deal under Biden that Trump. Why is that?

Let's add some color to this. I'm reading a lot of denial and hand-waving from the left here:

https://twitter.com/BillMelugin_/status/1740841581...

First the bullet points:

- ICE made 142,580 deportations, nearly doubling FY’22, but still a small fraction of the nearly 2.5 million southern border migrant encounters in FY’23 & a steep drop from Trump years. ICE says Title 42 lowered deportation numbers, & they expelled over 60,000 via Title 42, which aren’t deportations.

- The non-detained (released) docket has exploded to over 6 million, almost doubling under Biden since the Trump years. This includes illegal immigrants who have been issued final orders of removal, as well as those with pending cases, which includes those who were issued notices to appear.

- ICE removed only 212 unaccompanied minors in FY’23, despite 137,275 arriving at the southern border in FY’23. The Biden administration is removing less than a drop in the bucket when it comes to these unaccompanied minors.

- ICE deported 139 known or suspected terrorists in FY’23, a huge jump from recent years reflecting more terror watchlist suspects arriving at the southern border than ever before. Previous high in last six years was 2019 with 58 terror removals.

And now the summary:

Overall takeaway: ICE enforcement up significantly from FY’22, but still a small fraction compared to the millions coming across the border. ICE enforcement during Trump years was significantly higher despite much smaller numbers of people coming across the border. For perspective, Trump’s worst year was 2019, when there were 851,000 migrant encounters at the southern border. Biden just had back to back years of 2.3 million and 2.4 million, and Trump’s ICE removals were still significantly higher.


Incentives drive behavior, and right now with Biden in charge there are loads of them.

Paid for with state funds.

What state funds? Newsom's managed to wrack up a $68Bn budget deficit.

The ER is the most expensive way to get treatment, and if they can't pay then the taxpayers pay. It's cheaper to allow them to get treatment outside of an ER. Also, if someone has something communicable, it is more likely to be contained if they can get care before it becomes emergent.

So you think that the taxpayers AREN'T paying for this? They will be.

If I'm Greg Abbot, every migrant bus not headed to New York is going to LA.

"Let them all in" and "keep them all out" is not realistic", and both are non-starters. But, I suspect, as long as it's a vote-getter, there won't be serious discussions about ameliorating the problem.

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The alternative to "let them all in" is NOT to "keep them all out". To claim that miss-characterizes the conservative position. But certainly there needs to be a system where the US can decide, control and meter the inflow. And when we do in fact deport someone for good reason (pedophilia for example) the US citizen deserves some assurance that person won't be back. Right now we have no ability to keep anyone out.

>>Paid for with state funds.<<

What state funds? Newsom's managed to wrack up a $68Bn budget deficit. - Dope

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CA governance is a clown show. I was talking about Texas using state funds to add barriers at the border. Texas recently passed a law allowing Texas Law Enforcement to arrest illegals. Of course, rather than thanking Texas for the help or offering to discuss coordination of efforts, the Biden Admin is suing Texas for attempting to do the job the Feds cannot or will not do.

I'm far from an expert, or a lawyer. But...

No amnesty. There is some Constitutional stuff that we must respect about people born here, but otherwise...

Make it against federal law to employ (in any capacity) an undocumented person. That does NOT deal with the asylum requests. That will dry-up almost all non-asylum crossings because they can't get work here.

For asylum people, allow temporary work permits so they can support themselves while their cases are decided. Renewable every so often (90 days, 180 days, whatever). If they let it expire, they are working illegally (and can be deported).

Increase the capacity for adjudicating cases.

And one idea we just mentioned yesterday was "first safe country". We should look at that.

Off the top of my head.

For asylum people, allow temporary work permits so they can support themselves while their cases are decided. Renewable every so often (90 days, 180 days, whatever). If they let it expire, they are working illegally (and can be deported).

How do you stop people from gaming the system? Right now migrants are all being told to claim persecution and request asylum in the US.

ERs can't ask immigration status or ability to pay. They just have to treat people. The ER is the most expensive way to get treatment, and if they can't pay then the taxpayers pay. It's cheaper to allow them to get treatment outside of an ER. Also, if someone has something communicable, it is more likely to be contained if they can get care before it becomes emergent.

I couldn't find the arguments and debates that CA had before doing this, so I'm just guessing that the above was part of the discussion.

Proper action by Congress would likely make this unnecessary by reducing the overall flow. THOSE are the discussions we need to be having. "Let them all in" and "keep them all out" is not realistic, and both are non-starters.

Cali has been unhappy for years with the ER problem. They even shut down one ER, or attempted to. Nevertheless, they have a budget shortfall now and I shake my head at it. But you actually do want to get semi decent health care to illegals. Our economy has evolved to being dependent on illegals. I realize that a portion of my retirement was generated by illegals in the workforce - directly or indirectly. The guys who come here to work for the farmers and send money home (for example)are absolutely necessary and that's been going on since before we born.

Tell 'em to fix it.

The guys who come here to work for the farmers and send money home (for example)are absolutely necessary and that's been going on since before we born.

Those aren't necessarily illegal aliens. We have a migrant worker program that allows people to come in, do a job, then go home.

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states...

The H-2A program allows U.S. employers or U.S. agents who meet specific regulatory requirements to bring foreign nationals to the United States to fill temporary agricultural jobs. A U.S. employer, a U.S. agent as described in the regulations, or an association of U.S. agricultural producers named as a joint employer must file Form I-129, Petition for a Nonimmigrant Worker, on a prospective worker’s behalf.

BHM: I understand that legislation is needed. However, that is no excuse for ignoring the issue

Just amazing that you can post that.

Dope: Okay. I'll bite.

WHAT action by Congress?

What have I been suggesting for years here? There are embassy laws, or similar, that we can use. May have to tailor it. We build processing facilities, say 10 miles inside the border. We process everything there and have a little court system to meet all legal requirements. Only 5% of those applying for amnesty may qualify. We put together a system that sorts down to say 8-10% and let the 90-92% know they don't qualify. They stay on the other side of the border.

If you want we can build housing for the 8-10% until we know they qualify and then bring them across. We take photos, fingerprints, DNA, etc., and if they are found in the us, increasing penalties, etc.

For those that overstay their visas, just ship them out.

Mid you, all of this is expensive, so let's tax the 1%. :)

Those aren't necessarily illegal aliens. We have a migrant worker program that allows people to come in, do a job, then go home.

Yes, I'm aware. But there are still plenty of illegals, and we both should know that. I'm reminded that during the pandemic they interviewed illegals in the fields helping pick vegetables, and then showed crops rotting in the fields because - no illegals. LM swears this doesn't go on near her, but I'm sympathetic to the small farmer. They have a high suicide rate and some of them have to speculate with a portion of their crops.

Make it against federal law to employ (in any capacity) an undocumented person. - 1pg

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I think that is already the case. What is missing is the will and resources to enforce it. No new legislation required.


If they let it expire, they are working illegally (and can be deported).

Ineffectual because they can and do just sneak right back in. Border securty is the foundation and must be in place before anything meaningful can be built on top.

There was one story on Fox of course about one illegal that was making a career out of it, cross illegally, get apprehended, collect the goodies, get a court date, sneak back out and then come back in under a new identity and collect more goodies. American compassion and generosity is being gamed and Biden could not care less.

We've never managed to get any system to work, but there still should be a system that has a semblance of working, doncha think? Tell 'em to fix it.

rather than thanking Texas for the help or offering to discuss coordination of efforts, the Biden Admin is suing Texas for attempting to do the job the Feds cannot or will not do.

The Feds are arresting people at the border every day. Illegals get deported, asylum seekers get processed.
What else would you have them do?

All Abbott is doing is shipping them elsewhere in the US to make a political point. Why doesn't he just ship them back home or back to Mexico at least? He might get Fed help/cash for that.

How do you stop people from gaming the system?

You can't totally stop that. Just like you can't stop people from gaming our tax system, health system and legal system.
People game systems.

You rely on the fact that not everyone does it.
You punish the ones caught and shown to be gaming the system.
Takes a lot of resources when there are a lot of people migrating.

We've never managed to get any system to work, but there still should be a system that has a semblance of working, doncha think? - Lapsody

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Absolutely agree.


Tell 'em to fix it.

They already know that. Coercion via the ballot box is the only message that they (or their replacements) will respond to.

All Abbott is doing is shipping them elsewhere in the US to make a political point. Why doesn't he just ship them back home or back to Mexico at least? He might get Fed help/cash for that. - Neuromancer

----------

Read the news. Abbott is doing more that that. And the Biden Admin is resisting him every step of the way.

"The U.S. Department of Justice says it will sue Texas if the state enforces a new law enacted this month allowing state officials to arrest and deport people who come into the U.S. illegally."


https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-si...

Governor Greg Abbott today signed a series of border security legislation passed during the 88th Regular Legislative Session into law at the Texas Capitol. This package of six bills will expand Texas' unprecedented efforts to hold the line and protect Texans from the record level of illegal immigration, weapons, and deadly drugs pouring into Texas from Mexico caused by President Biden's refusal to secure the border.

"Thanks to the leadership and hard work of Director McCraw, General Suelzer, and their teams, Texas has pushed back against the swell of migrants and held the line to keep people out of Texas—but there's more that needs to be done," said Governor Abbott. "The Texas Legislature has stepped up to make sure we continue to robustly respond to President Biden's growing border crisis, including allocating $5.1 billion for border security. Today, I am signing six bills from this year's regular session to ensure that Texas can continue to do even more to stop illegal immigration at our southern border and provide new tools to the brave men and women along the southern border to protect Texans and Americans from the chaos and crisis of the border."

The Governor was joined at the bill signing ceremony by Senators Brian Birdwell, Cesar Blanco, Pete Flores, and Tan Parker; Representatives Ryan Guillen, Caroline Harris, Tracy King, David Spiller, and Terry Wilson; Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) Director Steve McCraw; Adjutant General of Texas Major General Thomas Suelzer; Zapata County Sheriff Raymundo Del Bosque; Brooks County Sheriff Benny Martinez; National Border Patrol Council Executive Vice President Paul Perez; and other border security advocates.

"Today, public enemy number one is the Mexican cartels, and they impact every community in Texas and the United States," said Director McCraw. "Our mission is to detect and interdict transitional criminal activity and create proactive strategies to combat it. It's dangerous to cross between ports of entry, and securing the border between them is ideal to fight Mexican cartels."

"Texas is extremely fortunate to have a Governor who is absolutely relentless in his actions to protect our state's sovereignty, secure our border, and preserve the rule of law," said General Suelzer. "The legislators behind me passed comprehensive laws to secure the Texas-Mexico border, and I applaud all of them for their work on this important issue."

protect Texans from the record level of illegal immigration, weapons, and deadly drugs pouring into Texas from Mexico caused by President Biden's refusal to secure the border.
Thanks for my daily laugh. I suppose some folks gonna believe that though.
Alan
note: Asylum seekers <> illegal immigrants.

Thanks for my daily laugh. I suppose some folks gonna believe that though.
Alan
note: Asylum seekers <> illegal immigrants.

As I said. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.


Ps. Illegals are being told to request asylum.

Coercion via the ballot box is the only message that they (or their replacements) will respond to.

That's one way of telling them to fix it - throw everyone under the bus.

I shouldn't be surprised by you advocating for doing something illegal as opposed to fixing the system. It seems many are leaning that way these days.
Alan

I shouldn't be surprised by you advocating for doing something illegal as opposed to fixing the system. It seems many are leaning that way these days.
Alan

How am I advocating for that? I’m telling you what’s actually happening.

I’m definitely not surprised that you have little to no grasp of the actual facts and situation on the border. And also definitely not surprised that your only contributions are an insult. Have a nice day!

The alternative to "let them all in" is NOT to "keep them all out". To claim that miss-characterizes the conservative position.

As the "let them all in" position mischaracterizes the liberal position. But there are elements of each side that does have those positions. I was illustrating (apparently poorly) that the two parties need to ignore their extremists, because both positions are non-starters. As always, we have to meet somewhere in the middle. Which is probably where the answer lies anyway (it usually does).

Ineffectual because they can and do just sneak right back in.

That's a different problem entirely.

I as referring to asylum.

Our present system is geared towards people sneaking across, being deported, and sneaking again. It's almost a game. I remember border patrol agents actually recognizing some migrants because there were "regulars", so to speak. Typically working the fields for the season, going home, and returning the next season.

The wave of people the last several years has been asylum seekers (a large percentage of the wave is), fleeing broken governments and gang violence. As albaby said, those folks are here legally if they turn themselves in for an asylum request. Those people get their court date. Once rejected, I don't know if they can reapply...assuming they can even make it back here a second time.

Border security, alas, will never be as tight as you imagine it could be. We could dig a moat, fill it with gators, and they'll still come. A gator-filled moat is better than wait awaits them wherever they came from.

And, let's not lose sight of the fact that -last I knew- the number one category of illegal immigration is people who overstay legal visas.

All Abbott is doing is shipping them elsewhere in the US to make a political point. Why doesn't he just ship them back home or back to Mexico at least? He might get Fed help/cash for that.

Dope also pointed out that it may be an attempt to share the pain with non-border states. On the surface it makes sense, but then why not bus them to PA or OH or OR, to "awaken" legislators from those states?

But I don't think Abbott can send them back. I suspect that would be a violation of federal law, since only the feds can deport (to my knowledge; IANAL).

How do you stop people from gaming the system?

LOL...Like all the good citizens who cheat on their taxes, defraud government programs.... ya know, the big ticket gamers.

Clearly the right wing has no problem when the gamers are orange spray tanned rapists.

Those aren't necessarily illegal aliens. We have a migrant worker program that allows people to come in, do a job, then go home.

Many aren't. Many are. Wealthy employers have ways to avoid determining who's who when it benefits their bottom line.

The Trumps are a classic example of a business who got busted employing people with expired H2A visas. Of course, the orange rapist and his children simply blame management. Deniability is a wonderful thing, ain't it?

"Mind you, all of this is expensive, so let's tax the 1%. :) "

Why not simply tax the businesses that benefit from that cheap migrant labor so the net cost of an hour is = to what a citizen would earn??

"Ineffectual because they can and do just sneak right back in. Border securty is the foundation and must be in place before anything meaningful can be built on top."

You do understand that migrant workers often sneak back in with the support of their former employers who depend on their prompt return.... right?


"For years — including during Trump’s presidency — the Trump Organization employed undocumented workers as housekeepers, waiters, groundskeepers and stonemasons."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/5-question...

You do understand that migrant workers often sneak back in with the support of their former employers who depend on their prompt return.... right? - sano

---------------

Yes I do. Those migrant workers should be obtaining the appropriate and readily available visa. Businesses that hire undocumented workers should be heavily fined for initial violations, jail time for the employer<s> if it continues.

Now one for you. You do understand that migrant workers are a tiny fraction of the 200,000 or so monthly border runners.... right?

Businesses that hire undocumented workers should be heavily fined for initial violations, jail time for the employer<s> if it continues.

You're too nice.

For corporations...seize all of their assets for a second offense (fines for a first offense). Every last penny. Even if they are a public company. There is the government program that verifies work eligibility. My former company used it. It's not that hard.

jail time for the employer<s> if it continues.

Lock him up! Sorry. There's a line of prosecutors ahead of you who have already filed charges.


You do understand that migrant workers are a tiny fraction of the 200,000 or so monthly border runners.... right?

Sure, but they run the same gauntlets with all the other migrants looking to work/earn a living without fearing foreign cartels and foreign corrupt regimes.

"You do understand that migrant workers are a tiny fraction of the 200,000 or so monthly border runners.... right?"

Yeah so.

The vast majority of migrants want nothing more than work.

"The vast majority of migrants want nothing more than work."

Maybe true, but how about the other... not vast majority...who are coming into the country ...unvetted...or in the case of the million or so gotaways who had no interest in being identified for whatever reason?

who are coming into the country ...unvetted...or in the case of the million or so gotaways who had no interest in being identified for whatever reason?

As as been suggested over and over... get your Gaetz/MTG/Santos/McCarthy/Jordan brain trust to work with both sides of the aisle to craft some effective legislation instead of wasting so damn much time trying to find any reason to put Hunter Biden in jail for what amounts to a pile of beans. C'mon man! Make 'em be legislators!

Besides amnesty and path to citizenship for the 11M already here, below is what is in Biden's immigration reform proposal regarding border security.... I am glad the Republicans reject this.

Without security, any other provision you make is unenforceable and hence a non starter. For example see last point in Biden's plan excerpted below.

Security first (stop new border runners), then decide what to do with those already here. I don't mind negotiating that second part now and putting in all in one bill but only if it is security implemented first, then whatever. Reagan got fooled once and we remember...


Border security

The bill provides for increased security at ports of entry focused on detecting drugs and other contraband.

Existing criminal penalties for unauthorized immigrants remain in place, including those that bar certain criminals from obtaining green cards.

"We feel like the law is already there, no need to have added enforcement mechanisms," said one senior administration official who spoke with ABC News on the condition of anonymity to discuss plans for the proposal.

Under existing law, anyone convicted of an aggravated felony or a crime involving illegal narcotics is not admissible in the U.S.

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