Post New

Here's to Progressives.

Hamas "TERRORISTS" per Harris-Walz.

None of the TMF Liberal "one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighters"

GEORGE W - TMF LIBERALS AWARD THEIR ELECTORAL VOTES TO YOU.....

Walz luckily said "North Korea" - he couldn't name the leader just now :)

"I-RAN" c'mon that's how the geniuses like Palin or in the trailer park pronounce it.

Geez now JD Vance wants to say I-RAN. We're so stupid - we can never pronounce anything foreign lol. Obama was good at that, refreshing.

Here's to both men for being decent so far.

Well, decent by your tribal modern shitty cultural standards.

Trump had to be forced to shake hands with Harris.

Hillary refused to shake hands with Trump.

Last debate Trump wouldn't even look at Harris when she spoke.

At least these two are doing that much. It's not your typical American Sunni vs Shia demeanor.

When I watch the older debates (as early ad a few days ago) it was non tribal. Clinton, Dole, Bush, Clinton, Perot---yeah it was nasty dirty politics but the men would shake, chat. Even the families would talk afterwards.

But hey, there's no "culture" problem.

*giggle* the culture and tribal punishment has gotta be obvious to even the Smuggest TMF deniers. If not, oh well it's not reversing! :)

OMG Walz is trying to take credit for natural gas and oil production.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. They did the thing you said

OMG he did it again, and here you just had CBS inject a "fact check" editorial comment. They're of course letting Walz lie his arse off.

"They're thinking ahead on climate change"? That's rich. They've done nothing about power lines and power transmission infrastructure. They've spent billions and have...something like 8 charging stations for it.

C.BS is living up to its name.

Vance now nailing Walz on all the criminal aliens they've let in. Some 13,000 or so murderers IIRC.

Even more hilarious, they're trying to help Walz by teeing up his responses for him.

This point about 'only person in the race who prosecuted drug traffickers' is lol. Walz is also trying to bring up the crap border bill.

Now Walz is bragging about Harris prosecuting "illegal gangs" when asked about illegal immigration. Yes Demorats, them mess-i-can's and the gangs right?

Now Walz is belly-aching for Trump sabotaging the billions and billions Harris wants to spend to keep them Mexicans out of her country.

HERE'S TO YOU TMF LIBERALS.....you are now waayyy to the Right of George W Bush on immigration.

Be proud.

And Walz just told another fib: "It takes legislation"...and yet, Joe Biden issued a ton of executive orders on this very issue.

C.BS is letting Walz say what he wants and is trying to limit what Vance can respond to. Good on Vance for quickly answering her questions and then hammering Walz.

Walz reads this board for his talking points, lol.

Just hilarious. CBS is trying to inject these 'fact checks' that help out Walz.

Vance is now dismantling the latest one.

LOL. If tariffs are so bad...why did Harris/Biden keep the ones on China?

Good for Vance in reminding people how great 2019 was...versus what we have now.

Inflation.
War.
Chaos.

Vance just did a gorgeous pivot in turning around Walz's point about "trusting the experts" by pointing out that "the experts" all said to ship jobs and industry to China.

Trade deficits don't matter if you're re-patriating jobs and industry at the same time...which we were under Trump.

SO FAR (AS SOMEONE who isn't blinded by 24/7 Trump Hate or FOX or MSNBC)

Vance is doing a better job than Trump's atrocious shit debate performance.

Walz is trying but Harris is a superior debater compared to Walz.

Vance is playing 1 versus 3, and he's winning. He's able to take what Walz says in real time and turn it around on him...Walz is just reading talking points and can't do the reverse.

Last time I said early on - it's Harris's night , big time.

938pm - I dont see a knockout yet, but slight advantage goes to Vance. Of course this can change.

Vance is doing a better job than Trump's atrocious shit debate performance.

Walz is trying but Harris is a superior debater compared to Walz.

Vance is VERY fast on his feet, and you can see that this is why he's on the ticket.

938pm - I dont see a knockout yet, but slight advantage goes to Vance. Of course this can change.

Given that it's 3 on 1, he's doing really well. Walz is literally spraying out ChatNPC-style talking points to see what sticks. Walz can't answer a question he doesn't have a memorized answer to.

And Vance just landed a great punch - Biden CONTINUED Trump's tarriffs...and we didn't have a trade war.

Project 2025 is going to have a "registry of pregnancies"? lol. Sure, Jan.

Wow, Harris-Walz is PRO LIFE in the 9th month!

Are they PRO-LIFE the 8th month?

Wow, Harris-Walz is PRO LIFE in the 9th month!

Are they PRO-LIFE the 8th month?

LOL, no they're not. Especially for minority kids.

It's yet another lie that liberals want you to have your control over your own body.

COVID shots, anyone?

LOL. Vance told Walz what his bill says and Walz goes, "Nuh uh!". Just like a TMF lib.

lol, the debate broke CloudFlare.

Vance pivoted away from the "let's seize all guns" leading premise of the question to putting more cops in schools.

Lol. "No one's talking about taking your guns", except Kamala Harris, who bragged about busting in homes.

I'll give Walz this - he's actually somewhat likeable.

Lulz at Walz and the moderators.

Americans see less housing stock because the GOVERNMENT is taking housing units offline and giving them to the illegals they're flying and letting in.

This is a way better debate than any of the Presidential ones; maybe these guys should be on the top of the ticket.

The pricing transparency is the key to lowering health care costs. It doesn't get talked about nearly enough as it should.

This is the most substantive debate in years

Nothing about the Longshoremen strike. C.BS is stacking the topics in Walz'z favor and he's not winning.

And what are we on, 20 minutes of childcare?

Nothing on the military?
Very little on inflation, on Iran, on terrorism, on the economy? Sheesh, this is bad.

Still nothing about the longshoremen strike, and scant mention of Iran pretty much declaring war on Israel. These topics are jokes.

Politics of Joy from Walz's closing statement, Vance is doing well closing the deal in his...especially noting that she's been on the job for 1,400 days and has made everything worse.

Summary:
-Nothing about the longshoremen strike
-Nothing about Ukraine
-Very little on China
-Nothing on the military
-20 minutes on child care <--- useless

Walz didn't hurt himself, but he didn't help himself either.
Vance did great considering it was a 3 on 1 fight the entire time. You all see why JD is on the ticket.

Brit Hume is nailing this - "The moderators were obnoxious and made it 3 on 1 for Vance. He ran rings around poor Governor Walz."

BTW...honest libs are wondering why Josh Shapiro wasn't on stage. Harris would be winning in a walk.

BTW...honest libs are wondering why Josh Shapiro wasn't on stage. Harris would be winning in a walk.
****

Yep.

But we know *why* Shapiro isn't VP. And this writer doesn't care. Let Progressive constituencies eventually come face to face with Progressivism. I dont care. It's a fun spectator thing for me now.


Quinnipiac's latest LIKELY VOTER sample shows Trump up 5 in Georgia. I just can't imagine that after his debate performance.

But we know *why* Shapiro isn't VP.

Yep :)
The democrats have a problem with da Joooos in their ranks. Funny how the party of tolerance is really just a more polite Klan rally without the hoods and the burning stuff.

But we know *why* Shapiro isn't VP.

Just as Speaker Johnson “knows” that “everyone knows” that large numbers of illegals are voting, even though “such things are incredibly difficult to prove”

You just “know” it.

I know little about Johnson and illegal voting - well the latter I know a little. I've helped a few vote and I've helped a few overstay visas./ Not recently mind you - no money to do that stuff anymore :) But the ones I helped are well settled, and having advanced in their jobs, and taken I.T jobs from Americans so I'm proud and happy.

Progressives and Shapiro: Here's to them. And here's to the sentiment on college campuses that we saw out and proud.

I am as concerned as Liberals are about it:)

Meaning - I sympathize with it

You just “know” it.

Yup. The home of racism and anti-semitism in America is the democrat party. It's not even a secret nowadays.

"But we know *why* Shapiro isn't VP."

LOL

It is hilarious the things you "know".

Nobody projects like a nutter.

"The democrats have a problem with da Joooos in their ranks. Funny how the party of tolerance is really just a more polite Klan rally without the hoods and the burning stuff." - Dope.

Yeah remember the time Kamala Harris hosted dinner for noted antisemites Nick Fuentes and rapper Kanye West? Or the Time she called the antisemites marching in Charlottesville "good people"?

Oh wait. Nevermind. That was Trump.

Remember Dope when I said your willingness to ignore the obvious in front of your face made you look like an idiot? Pretending the left is more antisemitic than the right is one of those times.

Let’s not forget how Kamala said that if she loses, it will be the fault of the Jews.

Imagine…. Blaming her own husband.

>>Let’s not forget how Kamala said that if she loses, it will be the fault of the Jews.<<

Imagine…. Blaming her own husband. - wzambon

---------------

I find it amusing that Kamala relaxes during stressful times by marinating a nice pork roast to feed her husband.

I find it amusing that Kamala relaxes during stressful times by marinating a nice pork roast to feed her husband.

Overall, approximately 17% of American Jews (not Jooos) keep kosher. If my math skills haven’t deteriorated too much, that means 83% of American Jews do not keep kosher. For Reform Jews, about 5% keep kosher. For Orthodox Jews about 95% keep kosher. Conservative Jews about 24% keep kosher.

Just in case things like that amuse you. 😇

"The democrats have a problem with da Joooos in their ranks. Funny how the party of tolerance is really just a more polite Klan rally without the hoods and the burning stuff." - Dope.


Dope, come back to earth. You've lost touch with reality...entirely.

I find it amusing that Kamala relaxes during stressful times by marinating a nice pork roast to feed her husband.

Not all Jews keep kosher.

>>I find it amusing that Kamala relaxes during stressful times by marinating a nice pork roast to feed her husband.<<

Not all Jews keep kosher.

----------------

Not all posters have a sense of humor. <g>

I find it more amusing that some Christian groups in America have tossed out the teachings of Jesus and are proclaiming their message of racial superiority or exclusion as “Christian”.

I find it more amusing that some Christian groups in America have tossed out the teachings of Jesus and are proclaiming their message of racial superiority or exclusion as “Christian”.
***

It's all they have left, socioeconomically. They don't want to admit it but they need an NAACP or for now, they have an Al Sharpton which is Donald Trump. Tossing out the teachings of Jesus - at least makes them honest and transparent.

Sadly as usual, Republicans are missing out.

They are starting to see that one constituency will always vote against them and use them and manipulate them - yet they'll slavishly vote in favor of certain foreign policies based on their Messianic duties - as if God needs their mortal gun toting asses to fight his battles.

This while the primary religious constituencies of the Right is visibly declining to housing project status - as I've said, White poor Christians are used and abused by the Right, no different than black Americans on the Left.


While this happens the Republicans don't want to realize: Dearborn should be on their friends list. There can be socioeconomic, polkicial, and cultural affinities here.

While Republicans love to shout "Israel!" they then complain that certain constituencies don't vote for them. (Which is the right of any voter)

Meanwhile Trump endorsed by Mayor of Hamtramck, Michigan -- that guy isn't an Irishman.

Meanwhile there's been pockets where Dearborn has helped fight back against the Gender Nazis in certain school districts.

I guess this will be like trade. Republicans will wake up to it after a few cycles. Something to look forward to I guess.

Not all posters have a sense of humor.

Got me- but the times are increasingly not funny.

For instance, Donald Trump has said that Doug Emhoff is not a “good Jew”, as if he’s in a position to decide which Jews are good Jews.

And history doesn’t show a good outcome when Gentiles start deciding which Jews are “good Jews”.

Had it been twenty years ago, I’d probably have laughed at what you said.

As it is, I smile sadly and remember a time when what you said was funny.

But that time is not now.

Bill Z

I wonder if the same seriousness is expressed vis a vis certain attitudes of Occupy Wall Street. And certain attitudes, chants, and excusing of certain protests on elite college campuses run by Progressives....where leadership had to resign only after forced by donors.

Tossing out the teachings of Jesus - at least makes them honest and transparent.

Transparent?

To call oneself “Christian” but proclaim values that are antithetical to the core values of Christ himself?

How does that work and how is that transparent?

Except that it is transparently hypocritical, of course.

Tossing out the teachings of Jesus - at least makes them honest and transparent.

Transparent?
****

I meant that groups like that long ago zero'd out the Jesus factor. Not just in their teachings but in their own lifestyles and families.

Tossing Jesus out officially - makes them more honest. Yeah they can call themselves Christian but at least now they are out of the closet as not having much to do with Jesus or his teachings.

Some will get hung up on the word "christian" - but then again - Americans - hee hee that is par for the course.

Got me- but the times are increasingly not funny. - wzambon

Namaste. Agree about the seriousness of the times.



And history doesn’t show a good outcome when Gentiles start deciding which Jews are “good Jews”.

A while back albaby laid out the case for Jews leaning democrat. Basically they calculate that the dems have a better track record for defending group rights.

Apologies to albaby, your posts back when were much more nuanced and informative. I was enlightened by your reasoning and am no longer perplexed about why Jewish citizens vote as they do.

I wonder if the same seriousness is expressed vis a vis certain attitudes of Occupy Wall Street. And certain attitudes, chants, and excusing of certain protests on elite college campuses run by Progressives....where leadership had to resign only after forced by donors.

I smell a Jedi mind trick in the process of forming…..

So go ahead, lay out your charge.

I smell a Jedi mind trick in the process of forming…..

So go ahead, lay out your charge.
****

1.)No Trick - merely asked a question


2.)No Charge - I now cheer the Progressives - which is nothing new.

Anything that pushes the tribes further into corners or makes them more hostile -- rock on.

So. no tricks, no charges.

Let’s not forget how Kamala said that if she loses, it will be the fault of the Jews.

There's that sly implication thing again. Doesn't work.

Harris has a Jewish Husband!

What's next "she has Jewish friends"?

She's wisely towing the line right now.

In time her mindset will be more acceptable in American politics.

Mike- so glad you’re here.

Bill Z

She's wisely towing the line right now.

What line is that??

In time her mindset……

What mindset is that?

What mindset is that?

The campus mindset with respect to a certain minority group that is rapidly becoming the new dominant ideology inside the democrat party. This same mindset has always been present inside the Progressive movement.

The campus mindset with respect to a certain minority group that is rapidly becoming the new dominant ideology inside the democrat party. This same mindset has always been present inside the Progressive movement.

While watching the Democratic National Convention, I was struck with how the faces were reflective of the diversity within America itself.

I see that as strength, not weakness.

And I don’t see that as “progressive”. By definition, it is mainstream.

While watching the Democratic National Convention, I was struck with how the faces were reflective of the diversity within America itself.

Heh. And increasingly, they all feel the same way about a certain group of people.

Double Heh. Here's how mainstream the Da Joos interfere in American politics is on the left.

Witness one Sen. Chris Murphy [d-who cares]:

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4913527-netany...

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) says he’s worried Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu may be trying to influence the U.S. presidential election by showing little interest in striking a peace deal with Hamas and instead escalating the threat of a broader war in the Middle East by aggressively confronting Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Right. It's not like he's fighting an existential war with several groups and nations that want to wipe his country off the map. He's more concerned with who wins in November.

An anti-semitic trope or merely stoopid? I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

“I certainly worry that Prime Minister Netanyahu is watching the American election as he makes decisions about his military campaigns in the north and in Gaza,” Murphy told CNN’s Erin Burnett.

“I hope this is not true, but it is certainly a possibility that the Israeli government is not going to sign any diplomatic agreement prior to the American election as a means, potentially, to try to influence the result,” Murphy said, alluding to the deep divisions among the Democratic Party over the war in Gaza.

"Both" is also an acceptable answer.

Mike- so glad you’re here.

Bill Z

----------------

Thanks Bill. I was glad when you appeared on the board recently. I always enjoyed bantering with you on whatever that other board was that we found ourselves on.

I find it more amusing that some Christian groups in America have tossed out the teachings of Jesus and are proclaiming their message of racial superiority or exclusion as “Christian”.

Didn't slavers do the same thing? It's not really that new.

You can find in the "holy" tomes anything you want. People pick and choose. Which, I guess, is somewhat justified since the Abrahamic tomes are self-contradictory in numerous places. Even Jesus was not consistent, at one point telling people he was not bringing peace but a sword. And that's not even covering the psychotic behavior, like cursing a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season.

One of the poisonous things about religion is that it can (and is) used to justify all sorts of horrors.

One of the poisonous things about religion is that it can (and is) used to justify all sorts of horrors.
***

Yep!

Some use that sentiment to criticize 1 religion 10 times more than others which is fine - racists and bigots and focus on what they like.

Speaking for myself I agree with the above statement.

I fully applaud and appreciate that many organized religions do good things. And I feel the flocks - a majority of them - are good eggs.

But I feel that *all* organized religions are not based on the word of God but rather, they are based on MAN'S interpretation of the world of God, OR concoctions by cunning Ruling Classes of ancient times.

I am convinced these things were written by men who wanted a way to control women, have sex with women, control the masses, be in a position of power, and make money. *every* organized religion to this day has those traits.

The other reason wasn't so sinister: If the slick or the smart back then knew they had to control the hoi polloi, for instance - eating pork was not healthy - just tell them that 'God' deemed it wrong. There, problem solved.

Plenty of fine Believers out there - but plenty of - if not more - good non believers also.

Disclosure: Not an adherent to one religion. I am not atheist, I do believe in something - just not sure who or what that is. Whomever it is I hope they aren't offended by women-in-prison genre movies.

I am an unapologetic atheist. Though, I phrase it that there is no evidence to believe there is a god, therefore I don't believe. I don't claim there is no god because that would impose on me a burden of proof I cannot meet. But there is no reason to believe in one, as yet.

Religion likely grew out of a few things. First, the need to "explain" things (e.g. why are there tornadoes?). Second, a need to unify a community. And third, as a way to power (i.e. he who speaks with god has power). Joseph Smith, for example, was a known conman. But he managed to convince people with his "tablets" and "seeing stones" that he had a direct line with god. Therefore, he had power over them, and moved to Utah (to avoid another jail term, since I'm sure he would have been arrested again had he stayed back east).

Just one modern example of things that have been going on for maybe 10000 years.

I find it more amusing that some Christian groups in America have tossed out the teachings of Jesus ...

I was thinking the same.

Something like a twist on "love thy neighbor" - maybe "Love thyself instead of thy neighbor", turning the teaching on it's head.

--Peter

Heh. And increasingly, they all feel the same way about a certain group of people.

How far do you have to dig to get out of that rabbit hole?

How far do you have to dig to get out of that rabbit hole?

What rabbit hole? I know your people, I live among them and see what they say and do.
It's noted that you're in deep, deep denial about what your party thinks. Not surprising. Most left wingers lie to themselves before they lie to everyone else.

I find it more amusing that some Christian groups in America have tossed out the teachings of Jesus...

Indeed!
Trumpism, is antithetical to core Christian principles in several key ways:
Love vs. Fear: While Jesus/Christianity emphasizes love for all, including strangers and enemies, Trumpism stokes fear of outsiders and promotes misogyny, xenophobia and hate.
(They're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats!" & "These immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country.")

Humility vs. Pride: Christian doctrine emphasizes humility, but Trumpism displays a combative, take whatever you want, me first attitude.
("I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pu$$y. You can do anything.")

Truth vs. Deception: Christianity values truth and honesty, but Trumpism values conspiracy theories, false narratives and outright lies.
(Trump lied over 30,000 times during his 4 year presidency. 79% of Trump's tweets were rated False by Politifact.)

"Love your neighbor as yourself." ~Matthew 22:39

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." ~Luke 6:31

Sorry Jesus, it's not you its them.

I find it more amusing that some Christian groups in America have tossed out the teachings of Jesus and are proclaiming their message of racial superiority or exclusion as “Christian”.

Didn't slavers do the same thing? It's not really that new.

Not exactly. Yes they claimed they were superior, but they also claimed that slavery was a good thing and sanctioned by the Bible. It was the best thing that could happened to those they saw as inferior. Jesus, in their minds, would approve of the great good that slavery represented.

"The campus mindset with respect to a certain minority group that is rapidly becoming the new dominant ideology inside the democrat party. This same mindset has always been present inside the Progressive movement." - Dope

It is hilarious to watch Dope double down on his ignorance of his opponent's views.

Dope literally could not accurately state his opponent's views even if you gave him a cheat sheet with them clearly typed up. His mind is too caught up in what his political master's tell him his political opponent's views are. Unfortunately I have had far too many opportunities to watch Fox News, Newsmax, and OAN. They will say the stupidest things on there about what liberals believe. People like Dope believe them.

If a person gets their summary of liberal views from Fox, Newsmax, and OAN, they are not as smart as they think they are.

As I recall, at least some of the justification was the descendants of Ham. The African peoples were regarded as descendants of Ham, and therefore cursed and "less" than everyone else. I think the "slavery was good for them" is a more recent rationalization (e.g. "if their ancestors weren't enslaved, they wouldn't now live in the USofA!").

But they are correct that slavery is sanctioned in the Abrahamic traditions. In fact, there are even rules regarding how to go about it. Two sets of rules: one for Hebrew persons, and another for non-Hebrews. The Hebrew rules were slightly less harsh, but still pretty bad.

I think the "slavery was good for them" is a more recent rationalization (e.g. "if their ancestors weren't enslaved, they wouldn't now live in the USofA!").

There is that.

But the southern secessionists most definitely believed that slavery was good for all concerned. They said it over and over again. This is all well documented. So it is not just a recent rationalization.

Not exactly. Yes they claimed they were superior, but they also claimed that slavery was a good thing and sanctioned by the Bible. It was the best thing that could happened to those they saw as inferior. Jesus, in their minds, would approve of the great good that slavery represented.

It took 40-50 years in the US, but slavery went from being considered a necessary evil by the slavers, to what you are saying. Slavery was the white man's burden, black people simply could not govern themselves, so the white man, by necessity, had to step in. Black people benefited from slavery. They wrote their own propaganda and convinced themselves, but there was the traditions of the story of Ham to glom onto, so it was easier, we had been doing this for some time.

The story of Ham: https://theconversation.com/the-curse-of-ham-how-p...

SNIP How could this be possible? How had religions supposedly dedicated to propagating the word of a compassionate and loving God become so intricately involved in this “appalling evil”? The answer is rooted in a grotesque misuse of the very words of the Bible. Of the many ways that Christians have invoked the Bible to justify their actions, none has exceeded in cruelty and wilful ignorance their appropriation of the “Curse of Ham” to justify slavery.

Ham (no relation!) was the youngest son of the Biblical patriarch Noah. When Ham saw his father drunk and naked, Noah felt so humiliated that he put a curse on Ham’s son, Canaan, condemning his descendants to perpetual slavery. Here is the moment, as told in Genesis 9:24-25 (New King James Version):

“So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son [Ham] had done unto him. Then he said: ‘Cursed be Canaan. A servant of servants he shall be to his brethren’.”

The making of a ‘slave race’

Since the 15th century, religious leaders have cited the passage as the justification for the enslavement of all African people. For almost 500 years, priests taught their flocks that a Hebrew prophet had condemned millions of Africans to slavery because they were descended from Ham’s son Canaan. The curse of Ham thus formed the core religious justification for the trans-Atlantic slave trade. The curse of Ham entered Islamic thought in the 7th century, as a result of the influence of Christianity, and medieval Muslim scholars drew on Noah’s curse in their work, as the historian David M. Goldenberg has shown. The Koran, however, makes no mention of the curse and Muhummad’s Farewell Address rejects the superiority of white people over black people.

According to this reading of Genesis, God had not only mandated slavery, he had also predestined black people as a “slave race”. In fact, some Christian leaders argued that it was in the Africans’ interests to be enslaved, because their captivity would hasten their conversion, purifying and redeeming their souls in readiness for Judgement Day.

By manacling and herding millions of Africans onto ships bound for the colonies, slave traders and their enabling church leaders and governments had persuaded themselves that they were guiding the “Negroes” out of darkness and into salvation. SNIP

And there's more.

That's what I was remembering also. "Curse of Ham". Combine that with the rules of slavery set out in the bible, and *voila* you have sanctioned slavery.

What is really amusing, and sad, is listening to apologists try to reconcile that with modern attitudes towards slavery. In some cases, they say the bible can't be wrong, therefore it was not wrong about slavery, we just don't allow it today but it's not "wrong".

If a person gets their summary of liberal views from Fox, Newsmax, and OAN, they are not as smart as they think they are
***

I don't watch any of that and haven't for years.

I just cheer what the Progressives on campus feel and say! And I love how the people in charge of said campuses didn't resign and only were forced to when donations were involved.

Here's to them.

Here's to the United Nations.

Here's to Europe.

here's to human history - forever.

I don't need FOX. I'm content to let all of the above entities speak loudly.

It all starts - with words. And sentiments. And said words being accepted into the mainstream.

Then, well, i'l leave to to braver and smarter people to do the rest.

Nothing funnier (or more sad) than a bunch of atheists who hate Christianity discuss Christianity.

Notice they never, ever criticize certain religions - even when it’s in the news (the things they want to dump on Christians for)?

Sad. Actually, pathetic. They’d never roll up to a mosque and talk the trash they do.

I just cheer what the Progressives on campus feel and say! And I love how the people in charge of said campuses didn't resign and only were forced to when donations were involved.
</i:

Yup. In their minds Republicans (except the ones that agree with them, lol) are pure evil but they don’t have anything to do with all the little campus darlings.

How convenient!

libs lie to themselves before they lie to the rest of us. The bunch on this board? They’d walk out in a rainstorm and tell themselves it’s sunny.

A lot of us are atheists precisely because we've analyzed various religions.

I find atheists often know more about -for example- xianity than xians do.

And while I wouldn't go to a mosque (or temple or church) and "talk trash", I will freely do it just about anywhere else. It would be in poor taste to do it in their places of worship, no matter how ridiculous I think their religion of choice is.

Just as I wouldn't go around a hospital preaching "you may only have a little time left, but you don't need to spend it in slavery...just accept that there probably is no god and be free". Again, poor taste. Though the reciprocal does happen in some places.

A lot of us are atheists precisely because we've analyzed various religions.


Not well enough. I’m not really even a practicing Christian but the “analysis” from the atheist left is laugh out loud bad. Christianity lives in the New Testament, for one.

And while I wouldn't go to a mosque (or temple or church) and "talk trash", I will freely do it just about anywhere else.

LOL. Militant left wing atheists never criticize either Islam and Hinduism. There are reasons for that. The main one being that ‘turn the other cheek’ isn’t top of mind always.

I find atheists often know more about -for example- xianity than xians do.

As a Christian, I find my faith guides me on how to live MY life. It doesn't give me permission to tell others they must live THEIR lives based on MY interpretation of MY faith. I'm pretty sure most other faith systems are similar. Almost certainly Judaism and Islam - at least from my partial understanding of those faiths.

Way too many folks in this country don't seem to grasp this simple concept. They want to use their faith to control others and tell them how to live, rather than control themselves and live according to their own faith. They use faith as a cudgel to beat others into submission instead of demonstrating how practicing their faith helps them to live better lives for themselves.

I some ways, I suspect you are living a more Christian life than some professing Christians. You're thinking about others and making them comfortable rather than forcing your choice of non-belief on them. And you're open to discussions of faith/non-faith in the right settings and situations, again with courtesy as the main concern.

--Peter

Judaism doesn't have a tradition of proselytizing. Unlike xians. Not sure about Muslims. Never seen a Muslim missionary. Though they are very territorial. All three have at least one shared characteristic: when they have control/power, they try to impose their will on others. Not every individual, but generally as groups. Often banning the practice of other religions in the process.

As a Christian, I find my faith guides me on how to live MY life.

I'd be curious how, but that would probably be a topic more appropriate for "Atheist Shrewds". We've veered far off of US policies.

It doesn't give me permission to tell others they must live THEIR lives based on MY interpretation of MY faith.

I would agree. Again, probably should take this discussion to the Atheist board for more depth. I'm sure people want to get back to bashing the convict, or making up stuff about Harris while rationalizing that the convict isn't really that bad. :-)

Never seen a Muslim missionary

ISIS and Al Qaeda would beg to differ.

Unfortunately, the missionary arm of Islam right now is rather militant.

Developmentally, fundamentalist Islam is about where Christianity was during the Inquisition.

Also unfortunately, a good portion of Christianity seems to be looking back to that era for guidance.

Bill Z

LOL. Militant left wing atheists never criticize either Islam and Hinduism.

There are no Hindus telling me what my wife may or may not do with her body. The very few Muslims I see are working behind the counter at McDonald’s or Dairy Queen and happily fill my order and smile. They are not a large enough force to try to compel me into certain behaviors that they like but I find repugnant. (When they become large enough to do that you can be sure I’ll be talking about them.)

We criticize (certain) Christians because their behavior is so toxic, replete with racism and an overarching desire to control the way I choose to live. They are adamant that they speak for God, and therefore I must listen. Balderdash.

Barry Goldwater, Christian and arch-Conservative knew what he was talking about. You can’t deal with them, you can’t reason with them, there is no compromise, it’s strictly about them - and they are entirely uninteresting in anything you might have to say.

There are no Hindus telling me what my wife may or may not do with her bod

Go chat up a few Muslims or Hindus about abortion.

The very few Muslims I see are working behind the counter at McDonald’s or Dairy Queen and happily fill my order and smile. They are not a large enough force to try to compel me into certain behaviors that they like but I find repugnant

This is such an illuminating statement on so many levels that I’m just going to leave it here, hanging. Paging Mr. Knight!

Unfortunately, the missionary arm of Islam right now is rather militant.
****

From their point of view, and the point of view of millions, the missionary arm of Islam isn't militant, they are just. They are merely protecting. Or justifiably retaliating against aggression be it American funded Israel building settlements. Or Europeans taking their Mother's religious headdress away.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

To each his own vis a vis opinion.

I cannot "judge" them.

MIlitant îs France bombing Mali and those people wondering what they ever did to France.

The missionary part of Islam were also merchants in India. I don't think the militants are missionaries.

Missionaries are not the same as terrorist/freedom-fighters**. I have yet to have a Muslim handing out pamphlets, or coming to my house to tell me Allah's word, or anything of the sort. Same as Jewish people, they don't seem to do that. They don't seem to have a missionary arm. The closest I can think of is the Hare Krishnas (Hindu), who were run out of the airports decades ago. Otherwise it seems to be a uniquely xian thing.

As the other poster said, as a religion Islam has only developed to where xianity was around the time of the Inquisition. Back then, xians were conquering and imposing their religion, on pain of death. Spanish missionaries are famous for it. As late as early 20th century when xians were setting up schools for Native Americans, prohibiting their religion, prohibiting their language, and even taking their children (to put in boarding schools).






**If a fire fighter fights fires, and a crime fighter fights crime, what does a freedom fighter fight? :-)

No, xianity ignores the OT. Except for the bits they like to push, like no homosexuality and the oppression of women.

But you can't ignore the OT. The Council of Nicea said so. They had the chance -and should have taken it- to drop the OT entirely. Would have made for a cleaner, less sadistic, less contradictory "scripture".

You apparently don't know what you're talking about regarding "militant left wing atheists" (however you may define that). Atheists criticize any and all religion. They are all comparably absurd and/or abhorrent. Xianity in the USA receives the brunt of it because it has the most influence in our society, and so is the one we have to worry most about. Oklahoma isn't placing an order for thousands of Bhagavad Gidas.

But I will (and pretty much all atheists would) criticize Hinduism should that topic come up. Heck, it's polytheistic, so there are even more gods to ridicule. Though I am, admittedly, not as up on Hinduism, so that would limit my credible critiques. Still wouldn't go to a Hindu temple and do it.

No, xianity ignores the OT.

Tell that to Presbyterian seminarians who are required to learn Hebrew and take classes in the Jewish scriptures.

But your point is still well taken (with a few caveats)

You apparently don't know what you're talking about regarding "militant left wing atheists" (however you may define that). Atheists criticize any and all religion.

Hardly. Militant atheists that raise a stink whenever a Christian says, "Have a blessed day" (recently happened to Alaska Airlines) stay as quiet as church mice when they get within 100 miles of a Diwali festival or a mosque.

The reason is simple: they're chickens. FAFO still applies in some parts and those are two places where it does. The militant atheists know that, so they'd rather bully some Mormons or something.

I probably should have said "most".

Most sermons I have heard pick little bits from the OT, but mostly emphasize the NT. And then they cherry-pick that to portray Jesus as mild, meek, and even-tempered. Not much on "bring a sword", or going postal in the Temple, or irrationally cursing a tree. They also gloss over the bit that Jesus was expecting end-times during his lifetime (hence the "drop everything and follow me, give no thought for tomorrow" -paraphrased-).

Then there are the extremists, like my fundy ex-coworker. He insisted every word of the bible was absolute truth. If it contradicted the bible, it was wrong (no matter the evidence). He once told me that the order to kill Midianites was never rescinded, so if someone was found to be a Midianite he would be obliged to kill him/her by divine command.

He was otherwise a really good electrical engineer, but this part of his life was just crazy (IMO).

Most sermons I have heard pick little bits from the OT, but mostly emphasize the NT. And then they cherry-pick that to portray Jesus as mild, meek, and even-tempered. Not much on "bring a sword", or going postal in the Temple, or irrationally cursing a tree. They also gloss over the bit that Jesus was expecting end-times during his lifetime (hence the "drop everything and follow me, give no thought for tomorrow" -paraphrased-).

I read all this, and I think: and....?

Then there's He insisted every word of the bible was absolute truth. and I think, if this part is true (He was otherwise a really good electrical engineer) I think:...so what's the problem?

And that of course leads me to the hilarious contradiction that is at the center of hardcore atheists.

They're the same as the religious folks they can't stand.

Life boils down to two things when strip away all of the noise. Wanna know what they are?

Treat other people how you'd like to be treated.
Live and let live.

Amazing how so much wisdom comes from The Bible (the former) and capitalism/common law (the latter).

I don't know anyone who raises a stink about "have a blessed day". Perhaps 1% of atheists? The rest of us just ignore it. We may joke about it privately ("she said 'have a magically enchanted day'...snicker"). But we're not going to get into a theological debate with someone we only briefly encounter and will never see again.

Of course, maybe that's part of your definition of "militant atheist"? That's unclear. Some tiny subset of people may do that. Just as some tiny subset of women will give you a feminist lecture if you hold the door for them. That actually happened to me once in the hundreds (or thousands) of doors I've held for women. Generalizing that one woman to all women is fallacious.

Religion is not a monolith. Even a single religion like xianity is not a monolith. Never said it was. Fundy ex-coworker was extreme (and I said so). What is the problem?? He has a grossly distorted world view, and makes decisions that affect others based on that. Especially in a democracy where he can vote. If it just affects him, I don't care. He supports replacing evidence-based science education with debunked mythology. That's what's wrong with it.

Treat other people how you'd like to be treated.
Live and let live.

Great example of cherry-picking. Read the whole thing through starting at Gen 1:1 without skipping. Paints a more complex picture than the golden rule (which, by the way, did NOT originate in the bible...it is much, much older than that).

I find very little wisdom in the bible, frankly. Eastern religions seem to be more introspective than the Abrahamic ones. Not that they are completely devoid of it. There are little tid-bits here and there, amongst the smiting and general barbarity.

Not much on "bring a sword"

That’s because Jesus spoke a lot more about other subjects, most of which contradict the idea that he supported violence, including the passage you cited earlier:

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household”.

Was Jesus advocating fratricide?

Hardly.

Rather, the truth is a bit more radical….

Try acting like someone who takes Jesus’ words seriously, and you may find yourself ostracized by your own family.

Just imagine being a second century Roman citizen and coming home one day and announcing to your parents ( or spouse, or children) “Hey guys, I’ve decided to become a follower of Jesus.”

Of course, we see things now from a triumphalist perspective. Today, it’s as easy joining a church as it is the Rotary Club.

But there was a day when that was not true. And that is the world Jesus was speaking to with those words.

Peace,
Bill Z

Was Jesus advocating fratricide?

Nope. He was saying you need to prioritize following him over all else because end-days were nigh. It was a statement that there will be divisions and strife, but you needed to follow him if you wanted to survive Armageddon. Think not for tomorrow (i.e. since everything was going to be destroyed and renewed anyway, in the immediate future (~30AD). Similar to other cult leaders throughout history (without the suicide pacts, of course).

But that is not the peaceful, harmonious Jesus that most xians would have you believe in. They're more likely to quote "the meek shall inherit the Earth". They skip around various NT books all in one talk, taking many things out of context, because if they didn't then no one could believe in any of it (except people like my fundy ex-coworker). Then it becomes much simpler to say "just be nice to people", and skip the whole dogma bit. Today it's a huge enterprise, and there's no money in it if people skip the pews and go straight to "don't be an asshole". That also may have been true in the first century...I'm sure Yeshu was offered food wherever he went, as long as he delivered sermons. A lot easier than working as a fisherman or carpenter.

And then, of course, there is the fact that he actually failed to meet the criteria to be "the Savior", which is why Judaism is still a thing. The Jews are still awaiting the Messiah because they know Yeshu didn't satisfy the prophesy. (Moonglade on TMF did an excellent, lengthy, breakdown of that.)

I find it amusing that Kamala relaxes during stressful times by marinating a nice pork roast to feed her husband.

What's amusing about that?

Dope literally could not accurately state his opponent's views even if you gave him a cheat sheet with them clearly typed up.

His m.o. of misrepresenting his enemies views and predicting their responses to his logical fallacies is straight out of the old Rush Limbaugh show.

The difference being, while Limbaugh's producers didn't allow callers to call BS on Limbaugh's lies, Dope simply ignores those calling BS and moves along to his next post of BS.

Nothing funnier (or more sad) than a bunch of atheists who hate Christianity discuss Christianity.

Notice they never, ever criticize certain religions - even when it’s in the news (the things they want to dump on Christians for)?

Classsic Limbaugh style... except on a board it can be called for the BS that it is..

I recall many folks on the atheist board being critical of all religions.

No thumper of a religious novel got a pass. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Hindu.... a zealot is a zealot.

There are no Hindus telling me what my wife may or may not do with her body. The very few Muslims

Yeah but.....

Globally, again, the Krakauer book title "Under the Banner of Heaven" resonates. Most global conflicts had, and have, a 'religious' component.

The Islamic schism is a major impediment to peace from eastern europe to asia to Africa.

The far right hindu's have their share of wingnuts attacking christians and muslims...

It's nuts that in the 20th century a huge nation like India has to deal with shit like this: India’s governing Hindu nationalist party has approved legislation in the country’s most populous state that lays out a prison term of up to 10 years for anyone found guilty of using marriage to force someone to change religion.

All those religohs battling under their own banners of heaven...

>>I find it amusing that Kamala relaxes during stressful times by marinating a nice pork roast to feed her husband.<<

What's amusing about that? - sano

---------------

Please reboot your humor gene.

No thumper of a religious novel got a pass. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Hindu.... a zealot is a zealot. - sano

------------------

Except for the religion of climate change where Armageddon is just aroud the corner unless you bend a knee to the movement.

BTW, I am not a climate denier. I simply disagree with the hair on fire response that is demanded by many activists and politicians. Also scorn-worthy is the hubris that we humans can manage mother nature to any significant degree.

It's not a religion. It (climate change) is evidence-based science.

I agree that some activists may be overly zealous (when is that not the case about any issue?). But there was a sweet spot when we could have made a difference, and so it sort of was "hair on fire". It's too late now. Enough energy is built into the system that we're headed for some nasty climate over the next century or two (at the minimum). We're already seeing the effects in the form of more powerful storms (e.g. where we used to get maybe one CAT5 storm per year with some years not getting any, now we get at least one per year). Sea level rise is mandating moving some infrastructure inland (e.g. the Navy has been busy with that for the past decade, at least, because they still need to maintain operational readiness and don't have the luxury of denial of reality).

As for hubris, it really isn't. We have nearly 8B people on this planet. That's a lot. We burn fossil fuels the emit greenhouse gases by the gigaton. The planet is huge, but it's not THAT huge. We are affecting it. Now I do agree that we won't "destroy the earth". At worst, we won't survive, but the Earth will recover eventually and go on. Human history is but a blink in the 4.2B year history of the Earth. Earth will be fine. We just may not be here to see it.

It's not a religion.

It more resembles a cult. And climate science is far more politics than actual science; that's documented all over the place.

Enough energy is built into the system that we're headed for some nasty climate over the next century or two (at the minimum). We're already seeing the effects in the form of more powerful storms (e.g. where we used to get maybe one CAT5 storm per year with some years not getting any, now we get at least one per year).

And this is part of it. Cat 5 storms happen all the time...they just don't *stay* Cat 5 storms. They both gain and lose energy as they travel across the ocean towards land.

Why was Helene so destructive? Because its storm track took it over the slopes of the Appalachians, allowing clouds to hang up and dump more moisture. It's a phenomenon we in the PNW are very familiar with:

https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2024/10/why-such-ca...

The current Cat 5 landfall pattern looks more like the 1930's:
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category...

We burn fossil fuels the emit greenhouse gases by the gigaton. The planet is huge, but it's not THAT huge. We are affecting it.

Want to make a difference? Plant trees. Lots of them. It's so simple.

Yes, storms gain and lose intensity. We're not terribly concerned about a hurricane that never touches land.

And your list proved the point. The last two decades exhibited many more CAT5 storms than previous decades.

I wasn't referring to the damage from any particular storm, or the geography that made them worse. Just that there is more energy in the warmer oceans which is allowing storms to build greater intensities. And that energy comes from a combination of the greenhouse effect and less ice reflecting solar radiation back into space, and probably some other factors and feedback loops. That's mostly on humans.

And your list proved the point. The last two decades exhibited many more CAT5 storms than previous decades.

Go look at the 1930's. It shows no such thing.

That's mostly on humans.

Plant more trees.
You know what the answer *isn't*? Getting rid of all the cattle and eating bugs.

It more resembles a cult.

No it doesn't, not at all. Have your ever read one of the reports from cover to cover? It doesn't resemble any religious doctrine I've ever seen. There is no cult of personality in Climate Change, in fact a lot of scientists had to be won over, persuaded by the evidence, and helped perfect the evidence by criticisms. And where does a cult ever say they have high confidence in X, Medium confidence in Y, and low confidence in Z? It's all about dogma.

We are going to perform the great experiment and find out if any of the predictions are going to happen, but there's enough evidence right now that says it is happening and will continue. After all, it's a slow increase in sea level over a hundred years, and a slow increase in temperature over the same period. We won't be here for the full confirmation, but we'll still have plenty of deniers.

We have nearly 8B people on this planet. That's a lot. We burn fossil fuels the emit greenhouse gases by the gigaton. The planet is huge, but it's not THAT huge. We are affecting it. Now I do agree that we won't "destroy the earth". At worst, we won't survive, but the Earth will recover eventually and go on. Human history is but a blink in the 4.2B year history of the Earth. Earth will be fine. We just may not be here to see it.

Not that any of this has to do with religion, fighting terrorists, etc....


But here's the deal... over that 4.2 billion years a lot of stuff got sequestered, buried, converted into forms that allowed the life forms we know to evolve.

In a matter of a couple hundred years we're managing to extract all that material burn it, dump it, spew it, to precipitate mass extinction of alll those species that evolves over time.

Previous years I've written about the impact of overpopulation, only to get shot down by those who believe education/technology/whatever will come to the rescue... but seem like technology is just creating more ways to burn more energy than ever before, pollute more than ever before...

The rock will survive. What's left to crawl on it is anybodies guess.

Party on, Garth.

No, this really isn't on-topic for this thread. That's one of the problems with being rigorous about "on-topic" since conversations evolve, and sometimes relevant points are brought in and debated that aren't really the original topic.

FWIW, I never shot you down. I always agreed, at least with the broader point. I was a bit skeptical about Loren's max population estimate, but I didn't ever claim he was wrong since he was the math genius with the models. I do think technology is our only salvation. As Mark Watney said in The Martian: "I'm going to have to science the shit out of this thing". That's what we have to do. That's our ONLY hope.

And we're doing it. I just read that Britain has closed its last coal power station. They have replaced all the coal plants with cleaner alternatives.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/30/nx-s1-5133426/uk-qu...

There's already a lot of damage that is going to happen. Our technology is the only thing that can save us at this point, though the irony is not lost on me that it also has contributed significantly to the current problem we're battling. And it will also be a matter of policy (see how I brought this back on-topic?!) to commit to implementing those technological solutions.

The rock will survive. What's left to crawl on it is anybodies guess.

My money is on cockroaches and horseshoe crabs.

And plants. With all the carbon in the atmosphere plants will do fine.

-Peter

One outlier does not make a trend.

And "plant more trees" is a distraction. Sure, it will help. But most CO2 is swept up by the oceans. At least that which is swept-up. And, as it happens, most O2 is released by the oceans. Also, as it happens, we are clear-cutting millions of acres of trees every year. Sort of the opposite of planting.

Then there are the forest fires resulting from dry conditions brought on -at least in part- by climate change.

The cost of cattle isn't just emitted methane. It has all sorts of effects which would have to be factored into the "final cost".

Being aware doesn't equal advocating. I'm aware of all this. I don't advocate getting rid of cattle. I also am aware that, especially in poorer regions, bugs are going to be a protein source. In some places, it already is. I saw frozen "mang da na" in an Asian market a while back. (It's Thai for "roach".)

I saw frozen "mang da na" in an Asian market a while back. (It's Thai for "roach".)

The longer our heads remain in the sand, the more mang da na we’ll see on the menu.

And when hamburger hits 65 dollars/lb, the more mang da na cookbooks we’ll see.

At that point, dope will declare that the market has spoken and anyone who still eats beef is a deluded communist.

And "plant more trees" is a distraction.

A distraction? You're aware that the famous Kilimanjaro receding glacier effect was caused by...deforestation, right?

But most CO2 is swept up by the oceans.

Actually, this is the distraction. Trees convert CO2 to oxygen.

The global warming community won't admit that if we were really having a CO2 emergency we'd be seeing an explosion of plant growth.

Then there are the forest fires resulting from dry conditions brought on -at least in part- by climate change.

Forest fires are a thing. It turns out, a very natural thing. But you know what's not natural? Mismanaging forests so that dry fuel is allowed to build up along the forest floor, making conditions ripe for fires that burn hotter, longer and cause much more damage than they would if things were managed appropriately (with selective thinning, clean up of deadfall, spot spraying for bugs and proscribed burns).

The cost of cattle isn't just emitted methane. It has all sorts of effects which would have to be factored into the "final cost".

And here it is, the hidden agenda. We have to stop eating meat because of the "Hidden cost". Have a plate of bugs instead and wash it down with some Soylent Green.

I saw frozen "mang da na" in an Asian market a while back. (It's Thai for "roach".)

Heh. Asian cuisine has featured bugs for eons. Go travel over there and go a non-gringo restaurant; you'll see some eye-opening stuff.

At that point, dope will declare that the market has spoken and anyone who still eats beef is a deluded communist.

You and 1pg should team up and travel to China or Taiwan and go to a place that doesn't speak English. Report back as to what you see on the menu. Hint: It won't be what you get in the Panda Express food court.

And your knowledge of economics is as stellar as usual. Beef won't be $65/lb until the government implements the policies that you want and limits the supply for everyone except left wing elites, who will continue to eat high-quality Waygu in Davos while you convince yourself that roasted grasshopper is a great meal choice.

As I said: you'll lie to yourself before you lie to everyone around you.

Hint: It won't be what you get in the Panda Express food court.

It’s been over a decade since I visited a mall, and I’ve never eaten at Panda Express, so what’s your point?

If you are sick of the Climate Change Secret Police......

Consider Kamala Harris.

She's got Cheney, Halliburton, and Goldman Sachs on her team. She's loudly pro drilling and pro fracking.

It’s been over a decade since I visited a mall, and I’ve never eaten at Panda Express, so what’s your point?

That what liberals see in Chinese restaurants over here isn’t necessarily what’s a part of the cuisine over there.

In the meantime, you folks can have some of this on me:

https://www.npr.org/2011/10/30/141741176/grasshopp...

Mr. Knight and I are having peppercorn-encrusted filet.

That what liberals see in Chinese restaurants over here isn’t necessarily what’s a part of the cuisine over there.

Arrogant dunk tank geek assumes nobody has traveled? Wat a douche.

That what liberals see in Chinese restaurants over here isn’t necessarily what’s a part of the cuisine over there. - Dope

------------

That is similar to my experience with Mexican Food. Up North, Mex was Taco bell or sometimes a restaurant might have a burrito on their otherwise American menu.

When my Mother first visited from Indiana, I took her to a great Mexican restaurant, one of my favorites, here in Houston. She didn't like it because they didn't have that sauce she liked so much, referring to those little packets that come with your meal at Taco bell.

Separate from that when I started traveling more to Mexico, away from the major tourist traps, I was expecting to get the Mex I was used to in Houston, just more authentic and better. Turned out Tex-Mex is a cuisine unto itself and native Mexican food is quite different and delicious. Never got used to an olive in my margarita but does it does grow on you.

That what liberals see in Chinese restaurants over here isn’t necessarily what’s a part of the cuisine over there.

And you think liberals are the only ones susceptible to such distortions in perception?

Right now we are deluged with MAGA nonsense claiming that Hatians are eating dogs and cats.

And I’d be willing to bet that more people in Alabama than in New York or SanFrancisco consider Panda Express to be gen-you-wine Chinese cuisine.

Bill Z (who spent many evenings sitting on the floor in a housing project in Galveston, eating gen-you-wine Vietnamese food cooked by real-life Vietnamese). And many a Sunday afternoon after church eating potluck courses prepared by Gen-you-wine Koreans whose congregation worshipped in our facilities a couple hours after our congregation.

Which is only mentioned to say- cut the crap with your “liberals believe and do this” routine. FOXnews is famous for finding an idiot, somewhere, doing something strange- and then generalizing that behavior to “liberals”. Hell, they can even take a Trump voting Republican and swear up and down that he was doing the bidding of Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats. And double hell- they can even take a mob waving Trump flags storming the capitol and swear it was ANTIFA.

So, no, forgive us if we are not quick to believe your take on what liberals believe about food

And you think liberals are the only ones susceptible to such distortions in perception?


Hahahaha. Wasn’t that you just the other day who had a meltdown about straw men? Here you go with an entire field of them. I said nothing about anyone else.

My post stands. If you want everyone else to Eat The Bugs, then get out your smoker and shove some grasshoppers in it. Or fry up some grubs; I don’t care one way or the other. Me, Mike and Jedi are having tri-tip marinated in balsamic and olive oil.

Which is only mentioned to say- cut the crap with your “liberals believe and do this”

So it was you, lol.
Tell you what: you people stop doing the things that I point out, and I’ll have nothing to point out. Deal?

It’s likely no deal, so I’ll keep on keeping on.

Hahahaha. Wasn’t that you just the other day who had a meltdown about straw men?

You’ll have to refresh my memory on tgat one.

My post stands. If you want everyone else to Eat The Bugs, then get out your smoker and shove some grasshoppers in it

Nobody wants you to eat bugs. Spiders can be both crispy and rubbery, but neither is tasty to me. Grasshoppers? Ate some out west - can't remember where - not tasty but tolerable. Chocolate covered is better.
Most Asian food is good, but not the Philippines. Americanised food is what we're used to. The word barbecue is a corruption of a Caribbean word for what slaves ate that we adopted. There are lots of different ways to cook rice that we should adopt. Thai food is great - Americanised or native. I got sick in Cambodia but had some Amoxicillin with me. The best Tamales are sold by roadside vendors in SoCal. Mexican food in Mexico is good, but Sano could tell you better. I've got a friend touring the -stans right now and the food is great.

Nobody wants you to eat bugs.

Mexican food in Mexico is good, but Sano could tell you better.

I've visited and traveled and worked in Mexico since I was a tot. From bullfight trips to TJ with my folks as a little kid, visiting my grandmother in Jalisco, surfing the entire coast, traveling the interior for the sake of traveling.... oh yeah... I forgot the fishing boat I had for years in San Jose del Cabo in partnership with a Mexican captain.
My best exposure to the wide range of cuisine in Mexico was on a 6 week assignment for a magazine that included reviewing the best restaurants in the major interior cities. Great restaurants in Mex City, Guadalajara, Mazatlan, PV. Major influences from Asian and European immigrants using the local ingredients result in an amazing variety way beyond what most folks think of when someone says 'let's eat Mexican.'

Turned out Tex-Mex is a cuisine unto itself and native Mexican food is quite different and delicious.

Yup, and head to New Mexico for a different and equally excellent fusion of US and Mexican food.

Funny thing- when I moved from Texas to Michigan 21 years ago, I bemoaned the lack of Tex-Mex up here, but it turns out I just wasn’t looking hard enough. And since then, many more Tex-Mex eateries have opened that I would put up against any restaurant in San Antonio on the Mercado.

And in the process of grieving that initial lack of Tex-Mex, I discovered the wonderful world of Middle eastern food….

Funny thing- when I moved from Texas to Michigan 21 years ago, I bemoaned the lack of Tex-Mex up here, but it turns out I just wasn’t looking hard enough. And since then, many more Tex-Mex eateries have opened that I would put up against any restaurant in San Antonio on the Mercado. - Bill

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Where in Michigan? Do you still live there? I lived in Jackson from 72 to 77, my first job right out of college. Back in those days, there was no Tex-Mex like you describe but then again I didn't really know what Tex Mex was until I got to Texas in 1988, but they did have Win Schulers. Up until a few years ago, I returned to MI for a week, a few times two weeks, every winter, to go snowmobiling in Gaylord with a group of friends from Indiana. Great times.

Where in Michigan? Do you still live there? I lived in Jackson from 72 to 77, my first job right out of college. Back in those days, there was no Tex-Mex like you describe but then again I didn't really know what Tex Mex was until I got to Texas in 1988, but they did have Win Schulers. Up until a few years ago, I returned to MI for a week, a few times two weeks, every winter, to go snowmobiling in Gaylord with a group of friends from Indiana. Great times.

Hey Mike!

When I first moved here, I lived in Ypsilanti, but have since moved out in the country in Lenawee County- we have a Clinton, but in fact live in a tiny town named Macon. The only business in town is the Macon Country Store across the street. Nearest cornfield is about 200 yards from my front door.

My wife and I have a cabin “up north”. In fact, we just got back from there two hours ago. It’s on a lake surrounded by the Huron National Forest. To place it accurately on a map, it’s 60 miles ESE of Gaylord, which we drive through at least twice a year while we’re gadding about in Northern Michigan.

We’re four season visitors to the area. We’re up at the cabin at least once a month for a week to two weeks at a time. This last trip was basically to get the cabin ready for winter- hauling porch furniture to the garage, getting the exterminator out to get rid of mice that inevitably try to move in for the winter. I even split a load of kindling for the fireplace. I’m sure we’ll begin using it on our next trip up there. Night before last actually dropped to 34, and the maples are beginning to turn.

Yes, winters are great- for all the reasons you undoubtedly remember. It’s the driving in it that gets to be a pain in the keister, but when you’re retired, and up north, you can just put another log on the fire, make a pot of coffee, and settle in with good company and a good book. We’re in our late seventies, so winters are now best enjoyed looking out the window, rather than doing all the stuff we used to do. It sure was fun at the time, but the thought of getting up at 4 am to paddle to a duck blind in freezing weather just doesn’t carry the thrill it used to. Great memories for sure, but if you’re headed out in the morning, just leave a note on the counter telling me when you’ll be back. I won’t be getting in my kayak till May.

Funny thing is- this is my second time living in Michigan. First time was the summer of 68. I had just finished my first year at Oklahoma State and took a summer job with a seismograph drilling company out of Tulsa that was running seismograph lines for Shell oil in Michigan. I spent the first part of the summer in Owosso, drilling shotholes in a line that ran from there down to Lansing. The second half of the summer was spent in Kalkaska, drilling in a line from there almost all the way to Traverse City. There was another seismograph crew working over near Gaylord, but I never made it over there back then.

That’s where I learned to fish with dynamite, by the way…. A skill the DNR never learned about (and I’ve never used since).


All of us on the crew in Michigan were from Oklahoma, Louisiana, and West Texas. Best summer of my young life. Almost hated to head back to school in the fall…

You’re in the Houston area, no?

Bill Z

Correction: We have a Clinton address.

lived for two years in Guadalajara in the late 70's Great restaurant with a strong French influence from the soldiers left behind by Maxmillian's failed conquest.

fd

Funny thing- when I moved from Texas to Michigan 21 years ago, I bemoaned the lack of Tex-Mex up here,...

I would suppose it depends where you are. Detroit is a major city. Kingston (where I spent a year when I was a child) isn't. You'd be more likely to find a genuine Mexican eatery in Detroit.

I recall we hired a guy at my company who had never lived outside the northeast. His idea of "Mexican food" was Taco Bell. Seriously. When we had group lunches and went to local Mexican restaurants, he'd try to get a burger (they could usually do it for him). It took years before he would order something from the menu. Humorously, he married a Thai woman a few years after he was hired. He was eating pad see ew before he was eating chimichangas.

FYI: Taco Bell is NOT Mexican food. I used to think it was tasty until I got the real deal.

Major influences from Asian and European immigrants using the local ingredients result in an amazing variety way beyond what most folks think of when someone says 'let's eat Mexican.'

We've never stayed long enough to really explore that sort of cuisine. Two 1-week stays was the most, plus a few days here and there. We always made a point of getting away from the tourist areas (that always seem to feature TGIFridays or Senor Frog). Had some really wonderful birria in Cabo (tiny little place with concrete half-walls and no proper door, and we were the only non-native Spanish speakers in the place). In Mahahual we went 1 block off the beach, and went from loud bar/restaurants to family places where the menu was painted on the wall, and the server spoke ZERO english. I don't recall the name of what I had, but it was similar to what we would call a "tostada". Oh, it was good. And cheap.

If a bunch of white folks are in the place, it's probably not for us. We like getting the food the locals eat when we travel.

Yes, winters are great- for all the reasons you undoubtedly remember. It’s the driving in it that gets to be a pain in the keister, but when you’re retired, and up north, you can just put another log on the fire, make a pot of coffee, and settle in with good company and a good book. - Bill Z

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Bill - A cabin up north you can visit often is an ideal retirement as far as I am concerned. I am envious. The Gaylord area was so peaceful and picturesque in both summer and winter. Lots of small lakes for summer fishing or for going really fast on a snowmobile when they froze over in winter. Like you, if I have food and firewood, I don't mind being snowed in at all. These days I think I would add a generator to the food and firewood list. I actually looked at some properties around Lake Horicon on a few of our snowmobiling trips but never pulled the trigger. Looking back on it, I wish that I did.

You’re in the Houston area, no?

Sort of, I usually say Houston in general conversation since most people know about where that is in Texas. But I am about sixty miles North of Houston and about ten miles east of the little town of Willis. I actually live in the Sam Houston National Forest. Back in the 30's (I think) when the Federal Gov was buying up all the land that comprises the national forest, for some reason, there remained some small pockets of private land and I am fortunate to own some of that.

There is a two lane blacktop out front. I have a 2,000 ft driveway winding through the trees back to the two acre barn site hollowed out of the forest. Very private and peaceful. I can look in any direction and see only trees. I left the acreage mostly as natural forest but I did thin out a five or six acre area which is like a private park you drive through to get to the barn site. I take a golf cart back and forth to the mailbox, and sometimes I will park for a while in that thinned area and just set quietly and listen to the birds and the sounds of the wind blowing through the tall trees. Very cathartic. It is perfect for me, and could only be better if there were real winters with lots of snow.

"You'd be more likely to find a genuine Mexican eatery in Detroit."

It's been a long time since I was there, but Southwestern Detroit had a neighborhood called Mexican Town ( not sure if that was official or slang ), and it had genuine, authentic, really, really good Mexican food. Best I've ever had. Ridiculously large portions. We'd hit it when
going to a Tiger game. It was a thriving business district, felt safe and welcoming.

Was in Detroit in May for a Tiger game, downtown is thriving !
Harry's Bar is a good place to pregame at, they let you park in their lot for free, and shuttle you to and from game. It would have only been about 4 large city blocks to walk, but some of the crew had trouble walking, so the ride was appreciated.

FYI: Taco Bell is NOT Mexican food. I used to think it was tasty until I got the real deal

No. It's Mexican fast food American style. I lived in Canal Zone, Panama for four years as a kid, and traveled up from Panama to the USA. There's all kinda variations and I like them all. I like Taco Bell, but Del Taco is better. I grew up on empañadas. Now I get to learn Cuban food, and I think my taste buds may have recovered enough from the radiation treatment. Looking forward to it.

lived for two years in Guadalajara in the late 70's Great restaurant with a strong French influence from the soldiers left behind by Maxmillian's failed conquest.

We took a hiking trip into the Copper Canyon... had dinner in a restored hacienda in the town of Batopilas, a dirt poor silver mining town. Fine old linens, china, stemware... Mexican wines, almost French cuisine.

Over the centuries the canyon has been plundered for silver by an assortment of Spaniards, Mexicans, Americans, French.... and now cartels who abuse the indigenous Tarahumara horribly.

We like getting the food the locals eat when we travel.

Te thing is, food in Mexico is very regional. They use what they have locally. It's kinda like BBQ in Texas means beef, in Carolina it's pork.

Oh man... back in the day turtle was not uncommon on menus. Grilled turtle steak, turtle soup... turtle egg torta. Then'they' or actually 'we' realized turltes couldn't sustain the pressure. Allll kinds of machaca, whatever was plentiful at the time.

Was your birria goat or beef? Birria is a Jalisco goat dish, but changes as one heads north so by the time you reach TJ it's more often beef.

My grandmother bought a piece of piece of beach property an hour north of Puerto Vallarta in Nayarit where panga fishermen worked off the Sayulita beach. There were some major homes on the point at the south end, but north of Punta Mita there was exactly one palapa restaurant with a few corona card tables and folding chairs. They sold fresh fried whole huachinango, papas fritas, beer and lime. Pull the meat off the fish, drop the bones on the sand for the dogs.

There was nothing else on the entire bay except coconut palms, that palapa, and the pangas. Now it's a flippin tourist city. Boom!
https://www.sayulita.com/

Yes, that is the thing. Mexican cuisine is not monolithic. The authentic stuff uses whatever they have locally, so it varies from region to region. And you only have to go literally one or two blocks away from the tourist areas to find it.

I don't recall precisely which birria they served. It was this place (I copied the link displaying the chalkboard):

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x86af4b813a2...

Could have been either. Really good. One block off the main drag. We went twice. Once, we were the only non-local people in the joint. The other time there was another white couple having even more difficulty communicating than I was (mi español esta muy rustico). We make our birria (well, 1poorlady does it) from beef. She went hunting for a recipe after we got back from Cabo, and found a good one.

I'd have to check my notes, but I think if we go to Oaxaca that we need to get their mole. Could be wrong, but I think that's one of the famous dishes.

One of my favorite local Mexican places in our area features Jalisco cuisine. Family run. Been a while since we visited as we have more time to cook ourselves (since retirement). Our old favorite burned down several years ago, and apparently they didn't have insurance to rebuild. La Tolteca. Really good, but, alas, no more. I met Loren there when he was in town.

I still maintain that Taco Bell is no more Mexican food than Panda is Chinese food. I've been to Taiwan, as well as a couple of restaurants that have "authentic menus"**, and Panda isn't really Chinese. Maybe "Chinese style". If you like Taco Bell, cool. Just know that it is not what you would get south of the border. Or even in many places in Arizona and other border states. You'll not find tripa or lengua on the menu at Taco Bell. ;-)




**When they see 1poorlady, those that have separate menus will ask if we want one. Which we do. Their default menu is Americanized Chinese. Lots of breading and wok fried.

I still maintain that Taco Bell is no more Mexican food than Panda is Chinese food. I've been to Taiwan, as well as a couple of restaurants that have "authentic menus"**, and Panda isn't really Chinese.

I've been to Taiwan and eaten Chinese food there, it's good. I've eaten Latin American food in every country from Colombia on up. Some of the best was from street vendors and street restaurants. (Which they tell you not to eat from vendors.) I pretty much like it all, but Del Taco is better than Taco Bell. The best food is not usually at the Swanky places, it's where the locals go. I'm plebeian. :)

I pretty much like it all, but Del Taco is better than Taco Bell. The best food is not usually at the Swanky places, it's where the locals go. I'm plebeian. :)

Agreed on all counts. Del Taco is better, marginally. Yes, the food carts can be a little risky in Mexico, but we had some great food in Acapulco (cruise stop) from a lady that had set up a small kitchen on the side walk, and she had two tiny tables with plastic stools (not even chairs). More than a food cart, since it wasn't really a cart. I think she took it all apart every night to go home, though I didn't witness it. Swanky is not on the menu when we travel. I like places where I have to use my Google translate (or my rusty Spanish) to order, where no one speaks English. Peasant food. So good.

Don't get ice in whatever beverage you get...it's just frozen water, and they are serious about "don't drink the water". Often safe, but not always.

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