Subject: Re: Birthright citizenship
ME: So it's a case of 1. cause the behavior and then, 2. blame the behavior for the detention.

DOPE: Your #1 assumes that all law enforcement is the same and absolves the individual being contacted by ICE or a LEO from any responsibility.

I don't think all law enforcement is the same Dope. But this remark indicates you misunderstand the point and are replying to something that isn't there. Or maybe you just aren't clear what you mean, because it doesn't address the issue. Again:


1. The citizen knows that police can roust a citizen, ignore anything he says and any offered documents in his possession, and just take him away. There's multiple reports of this from several different locations and states.

2. ICE is allowed to pick up and detain people based on ethnicity (they way they look) and sort it out much later - 5 hours to 5 days later is not unheard of.

3. So if you're an ethnicity that Trump is hatemongering about, and you see ICE, you may try to flee to avoid several days in detention. Why? Because an ICE coming at you means a high likelihood that you'll spend an extended period of time in detention, even if you are a citizen and have verified ID.

4. So have I painted the picture well enough so far? ICE = unknown amount of time wasted in detention without pay, etc.

5. So the citizen makes the choice to initially flee - fight or flight is basic - and is caught, ICE refuses to look at documents, which is by now well known that they don't look at documents for targeted ethnicities, and spends the time in detention.

6. Whether he ran or didn't, he was going to spend time in detention if they got their hands on him. I have never read a case where a targeted ethnicity citizen said, "I'm a citizen, please take a look at my verified state ID. I'm not required to have papers because I'm a citizen", and the ICE man looked at the ID and let him go. It's always sort it out back at the detention center - the journos, etc., say that is what is going on.

7. So here's my #1 - So it's a case of 1. cause the behavior, and your response is:

Dope: Your #1 assumes that all law enforcement is the same

8. No, the behavior is likely caused by 1. Trump hatemongering, 2. News reporting open season on ethnities 3. journos stating that ICE just rounds people up and sorts everyone out much later, 4. did I say Trump hatemongering? etc., and the citizen hears and reads all about this. It appears to have nothing to do with the individuality of the ICE person.